Is of no issue, this is a 3-way.
I’m sure some of us will help designing a passive X-over. If you like, post the impulse response files. And be sure to use the time referenced (dual channel) measurements when you post them here. Describe measurement positions and geometry of drivers on baffle.
I’m sure some of us will help designing a passive X-over. If you like, post the impulse response files. And be sure to use the time referenced (dual channel) measurements when you post them here. Describe measurement positions and geometry of drivers on baffle.
340 ******* dollars to get my car out of tow lot, 340 dollars...
The only positive thing I can say about this and all towing companies is that the passage of time will eventually turn them all into a pile of rubble. Just another one of societies failures to allow scams like this to be successful.
The only positive thing I can say about this and all towing companies is that the passage of time will eventually turn them all into a pile of rubble. Just another one of societies failures to allow scams like this to be successful.
One can only hope. 
A '50s 'something' local neighbor is a one man tilting flat bed towing/small dump truck service and has the most expensive home/largest lot, vehicles, etc., yet TTBOMK has the most quality time to indulge in hobbies/whatever other than me and the few other full retirees.
A '50s 'something' local neighbor is a one man tilting flat bed towing/small dump truck service and has the most expensive home/largest lot, vehicles, etc., yet TTBOMK has the most quality time to indulge in hobbies/whatever other than me and the few other full retirees.Looks like I was screwed no matter what. Got the car out and went to change the tire only to find a few of the lugs were stripped, just on that tire.... Hmmm. Had to call another tow lol.
Anyway I've been toying with some ideas and I think I've come up with a good plan to rebuild something for these drivers. It will be much simpler to build and IMO more aesthetically pleasing, easier to move, and solve a lot of acoustical issues this current cabinet has., and will cost next to nothing in MDF. I will have a professional painter friend give it a good matte coat. I plan to take them to the competition at PE next year and should be able to fit in the under $300 category. I wish dayton had some other tweeter options to hit the all dayton category, I'll be trying a few with the nd25fw as the starting point. I heard a good chunk of designs using the RST tweeters recently and I just didn't really care for them, they seemed to lack air. Of course this could just be an integration problem.
Anyway I've been toying with some ideas and I think I've come up with a good plan to rebuild something for these drivers. It will be much simpler to build and IMO more aesthetically pleasing, easier to move, and solve a lot of acoustical issues this current cabinet has., and will cost next to nothing in MDF. I will have a professional painter friend give it a good matte coat. I plan to take them to the competition at PE next year and should be able to fit in the under $300 category. I wish dayton had some other tweeter options to hit the all dayton category, I'll be trying a few with the nd25fw as the starting point. I heard a good chunk of designs using the RST tweeters recently and I just didn't really care for them, they seemed to lack air. Of course this could just be an integration problem.
Playing with some ideas. I want to try to use baffle edge sim to test but I don't think it accounts for 1.5" round over. I might have to just make a test baffle with some scrap.
Undecided on whether to use the parts I have or go with the VBS 10.2 in a larger cabinet, designer said he's try and model any baffle changes for me. One lets me save more money. I would use MDF with plenty of bracing and a spray duratex coat. I was recently given a sheet of 1/2" baltic birch and that single panel weighs more than the 3/4" panels on my big speakers. I think the material I used was just kind of junk (some cheap lowes plywood, looks like *** as far as layers go). The heights are tall which might induce some troublesome resonances but porting would be in the rear and I'll have much better dampening and bracing options with a new build.
I just kind of hate speaker stands because my cats just knock the speakers off. I got to this idea after I put some pvc pipe ends on a cnote and adjusted xover actively and it sounded very good. Go ahead and the tear the ideas apart.
Undecided on whether to use the parts I have or go with the VBS 10.2 in a larger cabinet, designer said he's try and model any baffle changes for me. One lets me save more money. I would use MDF with plenty of bracing and a spray duratex coat. I was recently given a sheet of 1/2" baltic birch and that single panel weighs more than the 3/4" panels on my big speakers. I think the material I used was just kind of junk (some cheap lowes plywood, looks like *** as far as layers go). The heights are tall which might induce some troublesome resonances but porting would be in the rear and I'll have much better dampening and bracing options with a new build.
I just kind of hate speaker stands because my cats just knock the speakers off. I got to this idea after I put some pvc pipe ends on a cnote and adjusted xover actively and it sounded very good. Go ahead and the tear the ideas apart.
Nice! Consider placing the mid above the tweeter (you were going passive, weren’t you) or rounding the top edge of the baffle to reduce diffractions. Switching the drivers‘ position tilts the listening axis upwards, that makes X-over easier and moves the tweeter further away from baffle edges.
Did you reconsider on using your waveguide combo? I would use it if I were you.
Did you reconsider on using your waveguide combo? I would use it if I were you.
I gave it to a friend, wasn't satisfied with how it sounded in use, very directional in the upper hf. mine didn't quite measure the same as heissmanns and the dome reflection on throat didn't jive with me, everything below that was good though. ran into trouble getting a good seal as they only have four screws holes. if I had my way I'd reverse engineer the behringer 2030p/a wg and tweeter as it's the best I've heard so far, can't seem to find anything like it, controlled dispersion at 70 degrees width. I find the nd25fw to sound excellent otherwise. the flange size let's me swap stuff out as well, possibly a seas dxt at some point.
putting the tweeter lower definitely looks beneficial in some ways. how does that placement tilt the listening angle upwards? my brain says tweeter not at ear height means bad news bears. I feel like it would be shooting at my knees.
round over is 1.5 inch fwiw, that's the biggest router bit I can find.
putting the tweeter lower definitely looks beneficial in some ways. how does that placement tilt the listening angle upwards? my brain says tweeter not at ear height means bad news bears. I feel like it would be shooting at my knees.
round over is 1.5 inch fwiw, that's the biggest router bit I can find.
Did you take a look at Augerpro's waveguides?
Do you still have a Truth availlable? If yes it should be possible to extract the profile? Maybe ask @Patrick Bateman i think he still own some and could be helpfull determine the profile?
Or play with Ath4?
Do you still have a Truth availlable? If yes it should be possible to extract the profile? Maybe ask @Patrick Bateman i think he still own some and could be helpfull determine the profile?
Or play with Ath4?
I don't have a 2030p but I can borrow one from a close friend. there's also the issue of finding an appropriate tweeter.
I don't know how one would measure the wg profile.
I've looked at augerpro stuff but only at a glance.
I don't know how one would measure the wg profile.
I've looked at augerpro stuff but only at a glance.
I don't think finding a 'good' reasonably priced tweeter will be a real issue but i might be wrong.
I am playing with woofer, tweeter, and mid placement. With the mid above the tweeter I can just barely get the woofer close enough to the mid if I cross at 250hz. I believe keeping drivers within a 1/4 wavelength of the xover frequency is advisable. Opinions on the driver spacing?
Also how important is the spacing of the back of the speaker to the cone for a 12" woofer, or really any woofer. I see the pit viper speakers use a small distance of just 11" of depth for the cabinet.
Also how important is the spacing of the back of the speaker to the cone for a 12" woofer, or really any woofer. I see the pit viper speakers use a small distance of just 11" of depth for the cabinet.
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Ath was available last time i checked but it seems Marcel have issue atm.
Anyway thanks to Fluid: Post in thread 'Acoustic Horn Design – The Easy Way (Ath4)' https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-design-the-easy-way-ath4.338806/post-7416773
I don't think the tweeter used by Behringer is special in any way: it's the whole implementation which matter the most imho.
Driver CTC: yes 1/4 wavelength CTC is optimum if you are looking for summing of both driver but... it's only doable in low freq range.
Another valid option is to go for Kimmo's solution (Vcad developper) : 1.4x wavelength ( iirc).
Maybe @hifijim could help you further about it i think he already implemented it.
Anyway thanks to Fluid: Post in thread 'Acoustic Horn Design – The Easy Way (Ath4)' https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-design-the-easy-way-ath4.338806/post-7416773
I don't think the tweeter used by Behringer is special in any way: it's the whole implementation which matter the most imho.
Driver CTC: yes 1/4 wavelength CTC is optimum if you are looking for summing of both driver but... it's only doable in low freq range.
Another valid option is to go for Kimmo's solution (Vcad developper) : 1.4x wavelength ( iirc).
Maybe @hifijim could help you further about it i think he already implemented it.
How do you mean only doable in the lower range?
I don't follow sorry, wouldn't that create a larger number?
Sadly it doesn't execute.
More mockups
Example: you want to cut at 1,5khz. Wavelenght is 22.9 cm. 1/4 this wl is 5,7 cm.
This will limit a lot in real life implementation... remember it is center to center of drivers.
22,9cm x 1,4: 32,6cm. Much more easier to implement in real life.
Now let say you want to cut at 100hz: WL is 3,43meters. 1/4 this wl is 85,75cm.
Hope it's clearer why 1/4 wl is easier in low end. If you want to lessen a bit it is still ok up to 0.33 ratio ( rather than 0,25) for omni behavior in summing.
If you look at 'classic' big mtm monitors ( Kinoshita's Rm, Jbl,...) you'll see they often use this 0,33 ratio for obvious reasons.
This will limit a lot in real life implementation... remember it is center to center of drivers.
22,9cm x 1,4: 32,6cm. Much more easier to implement in real life.
Now let say you want to cut at 100hz: WL is 3,43meters. 1/4 this wl is 85,75cm.
Hope it's clearer why 1/4 wl is easier in low end. If you want to lessen a bit it is still ok up to 0.33 ratio ( rather than 0,25) for omni behavior in summing.
If you look at 'classic' big mtm monitors ( Kinoshita's Rm, Jbl,...) you'll see they often use this 0,33 ratio for obvious reasons.
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Kimmo's found a ratio and xover steepness which works in association ( it won't work with random steepness of filters). I can't say why it works but it does.
I suppose he spent a bit of time playing with different scenari in Vcad and observed this one works, but i can't say more.
Member Speakerdave gave an explanation of how he implemented line array ( for Mcintosh) and 'log array' for Snell in a thread in here.
Take a look at it if you want to dig deeper about what is behind.
Hornbach-Keele filter approach is interesting to read about too ( 2 part pdf availlable at D.B. Keele own website).
I suppose he spent a bit of time playing with different scenari in Vcad and observed this one works, but i can't say more.
Member Speakerdave gave an explanation of how he implemented line array ( for Mcintosh) and 'log array' for Snell in a thread in here.
Take a look at it if you want to dig deeper about what is behind.
Hornbach-Keele filter approach is interesting to read about too ( 2 part pdf availlable at D.B. Keele own website).
You’ll find acoustic centers of dome tweeters generally about at the front plate, with mids like these that is about 4-5cm behind the baffle front. So with a theoretical filter topology the listening axis won’t be perpendicular to the baffle. We mostly correct for that in the crossover and you can use allpass networks to fiddle with the delay of the tweeter.
I had delays set on the dx25 and wg300 tweeter, it's known there's a reflection in the horn with domes hence why people usually try xt25 like tweeter. I can still hear up to 16k so I found this to be irritating.