Learning tons... I guess in my mind this TH w/PA385 is not really a failure but it is definitely off spec/doesn't hit as low but 100db+ ain't shabby. IMO not so bad with the driver cost at $150ish but at normal price upgrading to 15TBX100 is a no brainer. The B&C models well with this design. The TBW models even better.
If you are thinking of the 15tbx100 I would use the original than15 plans. It will dig 5 Hz lower than the box I built if I remember correctly.
I'll check with my DATS, it won't be until later tonight at the earliest. As I recall, I could see the cone move at low frequencies during the impedance sweeps, even moreso than with my WooferTester 2. It has been a while since I've used the DATS with a larger driver, so I may be mistaken.
I don't have the 15 in question, but I do have several Dayton PA310-8s on hand, as well as the Dayton LS10-44.
Well, I guess it has been a while...
Though the level seems plenty "loud", there is no visible motion of the cone with the DATS. Fs measured OK, but similar to your measurements, Qes is a bit high, suggesting BL is low.
I'll dig out the WT2 as soon as I can. Not sure I trust the DATS.
So, I dug out the WT2 and measured the same driver, in the same room, using the same technique. There is visible cone motion, but it is slight.
I got somewhat different results than DATS. Higher Fs, Lower Qes, higher BL than DATS. Specs don't match PE's, but they are in line with what I'd expect for a driver that is fresh out of the box, no break-in.
At least in my case, DATS data definitely looks suspect. Won't be able to test much further for a while, takes a lot more effort to set up the gear for ARTA and SoundEasy. Sorry if I have muddied the water here, that was not my intent.
Full disclosure, my DATS is the older version, but I am running the latest software. My cal resistor disappeared long ago when I let someone from the Internet borrow my gear, so I use a 1k 1% that I got at the local electronics shop. I'd like to think I know what I am doing, but I know better than that. I certainly may have made a mistake in DATS setup or calibration, to be fair, things don't look quite right. When I did take the time to compare methods (ARTA, REW, WT2, and DATS) in the past, I wasn't thrilled with DATS either. I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, just sharing my experiences.
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If it's the Dayton PA310 drivers that you're measuring with your DATS, my PA310 measured just fine with my DATS FWIW. The only thing that was noticeably off was Le. My DATS is the older version as well, i.e. it started off life as the WT3 and I upgraded the software.
Bear in mind that this is supposed to the SMALL signal measurement. "Visibly moving the cone" on a 12" driver shouldn't happen all that often unless the driver's suspension is very compliant.
Bear in mind that this is supposed to the SMALL signal measurement. "Visibly moving the cone" on a 12" driver shouldn't happen all that often unless the driver's suspension is very compliant.
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The PE tech is forwarding my findings to Dayton's product managers. Hopefully I will have a response soon.
Alos, I will try to get a low power close mic measurement this weekend.
The only equipment I have available at this time is a REW, a Behringer ECM8000 and a Behringer UCA222 usb interface. Would this be suitable to get a rough measurement? I was thinking about buying Dayton's usb measurement mic in the future for things like this.
I also have a Dayton IMM6 mic for my tablet, is there an application for Android that would work with that?
Alos, I will try to get a low power close mic measurement this weekend.
The only equipment I have available at this time is a REW, a Behringer ECM8000 and a Behringer UCA222 usb interface. Would this be suitable to get a rough measurement? I was thinking about buying Dayton's usb measurement mic in the future for things like this.
I also have a Dayton IMM6 mic for my tablet, is there an application for Android that would work with that?
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Thanks for the update.
Yes, there is an android app: AudioTool Dayton Audio iMM-6 iDevice Calibrated Measurement Microphone
I am considering the IMM6 myself and curious to read of what folks say. I recall that it is considered good for on the fly.
Yes, there is an android app: AudioTool Dayton Audio iMM-6 iDevice Calibrated Measurement Microphone
I am considering the IMM6 myself and curious to read of what folks say. I recall that it is considered good for on the fly.
I'm curious as to what they say. They should also be able to their own measurements in-house.
Yes. The passband for this build is well within what the ECM8000 is capable of measuring.
I am going to get a measurement in REW tonight. The PE tech
forwarded my info to Dayton last Thursday, hopefully I will have a response soon. This is the last email from PE.
I understand there will be variances from driver to driver but 30% seems quite extreme to me.
forwarded my info to Dayton last Thursday, hopefully I will have a response soon. This is the last email from PE.
I understand there will be variances from driver to driver but 30% seems quite extreme to me.
IMO BL, being dependent on the motor's magnetic strength and the amount of the voice coil in the gap, should not vary anywhere near that much from sample to sample, unless something's gone very wrong.
FWIW, there have been other posts on this forum suggesting there have been changes to the published specs of the larger version of that driver, the PA465, which to me also suggest a weaker motor than previously advertised.
I don't think I am going to be able to get a decent measurement in my basement. Here are a few sweeps I got tonight. It looks like there is a big saddle from 65 to 90 and response drops off at 55. I'm not sure if the room is creating that saddle though, it went away when I moved the speaker to different point in the room.
Try 1 (red) was near the middle of the room with the box on its side mouth facing downward slightly. Mic 1 ft away.
Try 2 (blue) was lower power in same position.
Try 3 (yellow) was on the other side of the edge of the room near a wall.
The weather might be above 15 degrees F this weekend, I'll try to move everything outside and measure at a higher power in a field behind my place. I'm not sure how snow drifts will effect the results though.
Here is the sim with the specs I measured in DATS. Do the saddle dip and 55-60 hz drop off in my measurements seem to line up with the sim?
Try 1 (red) was near the middle of the room with the box on its side mouth facing downward slightly. Mic 1 ft away.
Try 2 (blue) was lower power in same position.
Try 3 (yellow) was on the other side of the edge of the room near a wall.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The weather might be above 15 degrees F this weekend, I'll try to move everything outside and measure at a higher power in a field behind my place. I'm not sure how snow drifts will effect the results though.
Here is the sim with the specs I measured in DATS. Do the saddle dip and 55-60 hz drop off in my measurements seem to line up with the sim?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Try repeating the measurement with the mic a bit closer to the center of the TH's mouth.
That peak and dip around 40 Hz could be a room mode, or it could be something else to do with the build.
If you want a better comparison, export HR's predicted curve and the measured curve to data files, then import into Excel and graph them. Much easier to compare predicted vs. measured that way.
From the looks of it though, I'm not seeing very much correlation.
That peak and dip around 40 Hz could be a room mode, or it could be something else to do with the build.
If you want a better comparison, export HR's predicted curve and the measured curve to data files, then import into Excel and graph them. Much easier to compare predicted vs. measured that way.
From the looks of it though, I'm not seeing very much correlation.
I picked up an Eminence 3015LF to mess with and measured it in DATS to ensure I am doing everything properly. The 3015LF measured very close to published specs and simmed nearly identical to published specs in hornresp.
So, I am pretty sure I measured the Dayton correctly and it's motor is weaker than published. I am going to scoop a little snow and try to get an outdoor measurement tomorrow. I will report my findings.
I did not hear anything back from Dayton or PE support this week unfortunately.
So, I am pretty sure I measured the Dayton correctly and it's motor is weaker than published. I am going to scoop a little snow and try to get an outdoor measurement tomorrow. I will report my findings.
I did not hear anything back from Dayton or PE support this week unfortunately.
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Very interesting finds KTKTO, I am still waiting for the DATS to arrive. As soon it is in I will start with my build measurements and post it here.
Sounds good.
I haven't heard back from Dayton or PE in over two weeks after the PE tech said the information was being forwarded to Dayton. I sent a follow up email yesterday morning asking if there is any update but I have not heard back.
I'm going to send the driver back, I hope everything works out for you.
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