After months of listening in mono, a little tilt makes my ears happy. I think because my setup is so low it helps fill the room in an expected way.
Not the most elegant solution but it works for now. One day I will make a proper baffle.
Ugh... I just moved and lost wires, a few tweeters, and some hard to find screws to wrap things up. There is nothing more fun that doing things twice! Even better to order parts for a second/third time! /sarcasm
The above is a 700hz pulse in a simple box.. I think it is neat that a simple 2d sim can show interference from the back wall to an impulse made a second time. I am working on something to go inside the box and it looks like it should work. Well, the 2d hints that it can.
The above is a 700hz pulse in a simple box.. I think it is neat that a simple 2d sim can show interference from the back wall to an impulse made a second time. I am working on something to go inside the box and it looks like it should work. Well, the 2d hints that it can.
Back in the saddle....
Spent a month in the new place listening to the JBL 580's in stereo and now am back to mono again on the 3way phl/audax. It is really neat to hear the 15" sealed bass after listening to a pair of 6.5" with a port (jbl580s). So much musicality is lost on the ported design- it is the same boom sound no matter what it is being asked to do while the 15" dances.
I had to fudge the tweeter setup since the foam was lost in the move. I will get the mic hooked back up and measure to verify.
I will also compare the bass of both speakers. I am really curious about the group delay on the jbl580. Also, the 580's have a sticker on the back the shows the polarity but the manual shows the opposite so I am wondering if I had them hooked up wrong in the past. Testing the polarity is also on the to-do's.
Got some new foam sheets to make some new mockup parts. Let the mess begin!
Spent a month in the new place listening to the JBL 580's in stereo and now am back to mono again on the 3way phl/audax. It is really neat to hear the 15" sealed bass after listening to a pair of 6.5" with a port (jbl580s). So much musicality is lost on the ported design- it is the same boom sound no matter what it is being asked to do while the 15" dances.
I had to fudge the tweeter setup since the foam was lost in the move. I will get the mic hooked back up and measure to verify.
I will also compare the bass of both speakers. I am really curious about the group delay on the jbl580. Also, the 580's have a sticker on the back the shows the polarity but the manual shows the opposite so I am wondering if I had them hooked up wrong in the past. Testing the polarity is also on the to-do's.
Got some new foam sheets to make some new mockup parts. Let the mess begin!
@HeadShake - did you notice this post?
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-in-audioxpress-sept-2023.402166/post-7424160
Similar in concept to you work...
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-in-audioxpress-sept-2023.402166/post-7424160
Similar in concept to you work...
Thanks, @hifijim !
Yeah. Very minimal. I just tossed a roll of fencerwire just before I moved. I used it for a "duck only zone" to keep out geese.
We all paint with the brushes/tools we have. I'd just make a laser cut metal baffle if minimal was the goal.
This does make me want to repeat the tweeter on a stick test because I still think the depth is needed to deal with the group delay. A wire baffle does nothing to deal with the group delay.
I think a tweeter on a string vs tweeter on a stick vs tweeter on a curved stick test will help show the benefit or if I am wrong. Adding that to the to-do's.
Used yammy JA0801's... super clean on the outside and the measurements are close. I think I got lucky this time with used drivers. Next up is to cram them into a baffle and crank things up.
I hope to mess with the back chamber and see what can be tweaked. The goal is to use these with the 10" L26ROY... if the seas coax is the King L26ROY maybe this project should be the "emperor L26ROY". The bliesma t25 or a tweeter on a stick will be the HF driver. My fingers are crossed that they will play loud without issues. I'll make a new thread for it if it works out.
I am planning on doing a tweeter on a stick experiment again. This time I have 2 mics to compare and also wanted some other tweeters to look at.
It seems like most tweeters are trying to have a flat 6-20khz SPL when around 2-5khz it is more important to have a nice GD. Well, I think the GD is more important.
I've been obsessed with finding anything with an SD=17cm2. If the impedance is low enough, the SD should give a nice GD along with playing sorta flat just past 10khz. I can only hear till about 13khz so this is not an issue. (dear world, please make a nice SD=17cm2 dome! ) After lots of hunting I found 2 cheap drivers to try out: the visaton TW6NG and the tectonic tebm36s12.
I made a tiny box that can be stuck onto a dowel.
I also got two new audax tweeters and they don't match so well. My aim was to try drivers with a flat impedance around 1.5khz-5khz and they all sorta match this. Also a width of the driver being less than 60mm was also something I wanted.
The plan is to compare all of these on a stick and check out the GD and decay along with trying out the two mics.
It seems like most tweeters are trying to have a flat 6-20khz SPL when around 2-5khz it is more important to have a nice GD. Well, I think the GD is more important.
I've been obsessed with finding anything with an SD=17cm2. If the impedance is low enough, the SD should give a nice GD along with playing sorta flat just past 10khz. I can only hear till about 13khz so this is not an issue. (dear world, please make a nice SD=17cm2 dome! ) After lots of hunting I found 2 cheap drivers to try out: the visaton TW6NG and the tectonic tebm36s12.
I made a tiny box that can be stuck onto a dowel.
I also got two new audax tweeters and they don't match so well. My aim was to try drivers with a flat impedance around 1.5khz-5khz and they all sorta match this. Also a width of the driver being less than 60mm was also something I wanted.
The plan is to compare all of these on a stick and check out the GD and decay along with trying out the two mics.
Well, my dreams of an SD=17cm2 are a mixed bag (like all things audio).
For round 1, I compared the tectonic to the visaton. For round 2, I made the tectonic more flush to the baffle and removed the visaton from using a baffle. I'd like for a round 3 to have all drivers have the same XO and matching SPLs. The tectonic is like -8db weaker than the visaton.
advanced cardboard/tape flush mount on foam
This is a flush with and without eq VS no eq and not flush on the tectonic.
Tectonic with no eq: There is more power on-axis (aka duck mouth) past 5khz on the tectonic with a rough polar at 1m and a 4ms gate. I will try to tilt it a bit with further rounds of measuring/eq'ing. The polar was at 1m and I moved the mic and remeasure with a laser each time. It is about 0-45 degrees.
The audax on stick is an older measurement that I want to redo but darn is it flat. I did like 5 rounds of eq'ing to get that so it is not fair. So far, it is looking like minimal diffractions>SD. More measurements will put the nail in the coffin.
GD for EQ'd drivers. The visaton has a LR4 at 1500 plus a resonance at the same spot so it gets fuzzy.
For round 1, I compared the tectonic to the visaton. For round 2, I made the tectonic more flush to the baffle and removed the visaton from using a baffle. I'd like for a round 3 to have all drivers have the same XO and matching SPLs. The tectonic is like -8db weaker than the visaton.
advanced cardboard/tape flush mount on foam
This is a flush with and without eq VS no eq and not flush on the tectonic.
Tectonic with no eq: There is more power on-axis (aka duck mouth) past 5khz on the tectonic with a rough polar at 1m and a 4ms gate. I will try to tilt it a bit with further rounds of measuring/eq'ing. The polar was at 1m and I moved the mic and remeasure with a laser each time. It is about 0-45 degrees.
The audax on stick is an older measurement that I want to redo but darn is it flat. I did like 5 rounds of eq'ing to get that so it is not fair. So far, it is looking like minimal diffractions>SD. More measurements will put the nail in the coffin.
GD for EQ'd drivers. The visaton has a LR4 at 1500 plus a resonance at the same spot so it gets fuzzy.
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tectonic tebm36s12 vs tang band w2-2243s
I like the tectonic but now they are hard to find. The mount is also stupid so there is that too. The tectonic would require a baffle larger than I would like.
So now I am looking at an SD=15cm2 driver- the w2-2243s.
Next to the audax paper tweeter.
Imp of both drivers.
Mounted on the 90-ish mm baffle. The next version will be wood and the size of the driver.
Real on-axis at 0.6m vs sims. It seems like an baffle over 60mm needs rounding vs something smaller can get away with no rounding. My sim hump is very close to the real one. The mess past 10khz in the real measurement might be the non-flush mounting or the cone. The tectonic does have a better >10hz but I am more interested in 500hz-5khz.
0.6m tectonic (flush and not flush) vs tang band not flush
The group delay of each with REW adjusting out the delay.
GD of different box sizes with some EQ. It only needs 0.25 liters.
I made some quick filters for the foam baffle just to hear it adjusted. It has been some time since I messed with REW and it has really cleaned up!!!
I like the tectonic but now they are hard to find. The mount is also stupid so there is that too. The tectonic would require a baffle larger than I would like.
So now I am looking at an SD=15cm2 driver- the w2-2243s.
Next to the audax paper tweeter.
Imp of both drivers.
Mounted on the 90-ish mm baffle. The next version will be wood and the size of the driver.
Real on-axis at 0.6m vs sims. It seems like an baffle over 60mm needs rounding vs something smaller can get away with no rounding. My sim hump is very close to the real one. The mess past 10khz in the real measurement might be the non-flush mounting or the cone. The tectonic does have a better >10hz but I am more interested in 500hz-5khz.
0.6m tectonic (flush and not flush) vs tang band not flush
The group delay of each with REW adjusting out the delay.
GD of different box sizes with some EQ. It only needs 0.25 liters.
I made some quick filters for the foam baffle just to hear it adjusted. It has been some time since I messed with REW and it has really cleaned up!!!
Back to this thread...
The tang band w2-2243s has a new home. It is so nice that tang band let me know the edge radius of the driver! (thanks again, tang band, for being so responsive! They even updated the spec sheet after asking.)
I made a tiny box and monotile baffle with some felt to test out.
I will measure it with and without the aperiodic monotile baffle. I think it looks cool with the felt. The hope is this little driver can play 500-700hz on up.
The tang band w2-2243s has a new home. It is so nice that tang band let me know the edge radius of the driver! (thanks again, tang band, for being so responsive! They even updated the spec sheet after asking.)
I made a tiny box and monotile baffle with some felt to test out.
I will measure it with and without the aperiodic monotile baffle. I think it looks cool with the felt. The hope is this little driver can play 500-700hz on up.
The tiny speaker factory continues...
I have the part that sits on a dowel done. Now the part that the driver screws into. I do plan on trying some CLD with layers of bamboo and walnut between the layers of MDF. The layers are probably not going the right way but I'll measure to see what can be seen.
I have the part that sits on a dowel done. Now the part that the driver screws into. I do plan on trying some CLD with layers of bamboo and walnut between the layers of MDF. The layers are probably not going the right way but I'll measure to see what can be seen.
The mini-box is coming together. First up is finding the minimum size needed for a nice impedance. I am able to change it 6.5mm at a time.
The whole box sits on a large wood dowel.
The back of the box.
The melamine core and the stuffing. I use stuffing at the back with the melamine between the driver and stuffing. This way stuffing can't get into the driver and the melamine works best with an air gap.
Free air (green) vs a minimal box with no stuffing and a larger box with melamine and stuffing.
The same box with and w/o melamine and stuffing
The series of tests.
The whole box sits on a large wood dowel.
The back of the box.
The melamine core and the stuffing. I use stuffing at the back with the melamine between the driver and stuffing. This way stuffing can't get into the driver and the melamine works best with an air gap.
Free air (green) vs a minimal box with no stuffing and a larger box with melamine and stuffing.
The same box with and w/o melamine and stuffing
The series of tests.
The baby W2-2243S box is hooked to an amp now. I can A/B/C between 3 mono systems. I might add a 4th.
My monotile had a baby!
So I've been switching between the W2-2243S and the 3way with the Be domes. It is so interesting how much space the tiny driver projects into the room.
I did some listening with and without the monotile baffle. I also listened with and without the felt. My ears have a clear preference and it will be interesting to see the measurements (which I will do this week).
My monotile had a baby!
So I've been switching between the W2-2243S and the 3way with the Be domes. It is so interesting how much space the tiny driver projects into the room.
I did some listening with and without the monotile baffle. I also listened with and without the felt. My ears have a clear preference and it will be interesting to see the measurements (which I will do this week).
The test setup. Someone on FB gave me the idea of trying this as an open baffle. I might be able to pull that off later.
A rough 0,20,40,55 degree 1m 4ms gate measurement. The top is w/o rounding the bottom is psy rounding.
There is no eq and I expected some humps and got them. What is thing is cool is the baffle transition. Also the monotile seems to make a flat-ish 2-4khz.
I'll take a crack at eq'ing the average.
A 1m 55 degree. The monotile with and without felt.
On-axis at 1m with and without the baffle. So square vs monotile.
The decay of the on-axis with and without the baffle.
It might look rough but I am happy with the results. The only downside seems to be the distortion but I want to confirm that later.
I tried to EQ without losing power but it worked best by messing with what is more consistent across the measurements. I took 5 tries at it and this was the best.
Next I'll confirm these with more measurements.
Digging through the raw measurements it was nice to see the decay so random with each axis. (this is the 1m on-axis from the previous post at 0,20,40,55)
I was interested in looking at how time/cycles mess with a baffle. If 1khz has a cycle at 1ms what happens along the way. I was also curious why I found the W2-2243S so small with no baffle. Even with no eq fix I liked it with the baffle more.
The steps are 1-5ms, 20ms, 40ms, 60ms, 80ms, and then 100ms-500ms in steps of 100ms.
I like flipping through the images with the arrows on the keyboard.
It seems like the 0deg 1m with no baffle (brown) has the most jump in SPL in time.
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Eq'd the heck out of the W2-2243S. I still need to do a polar but it is much better than before. I aimed for 1db an octave.
At 1m.
I do think some felt can cleanup what is happening past 10khz. Some little felt teeth around the driver might zap the mess. EQ is working for now.
At 1m.
I do think some felt can cleanup what is happening past 10khz. Some little felt teeth around the driver might zap the mess. EQ is working for now.
Messing with real data for the tang band XO'd to the PHL 2460 (8") as a sim. I was curious what XO's I could pull off. Once I measure this might be off.
Look like another asymmetrical XO works best. I was able to mess with the directivity by moving the tang band 2" forward by 50mm. Again, real measurements will show what is right but this is interesting. My sim of just the audax on a stick would not allow the driver to pull forward by much.
The magenta like in the DI section is what the tang band would look like aligned with the 8".
Look like another asymmetrical XO works best. I was able to mess with the directivity by moving the tang band 2" forward by 50mm. Again, real measurements will show what is right but this is interesting. My sim of just the audax on a stick would not allow the driver to pull forward by much.
The magenta like in the DI section is what the tang band would look like aligned with the 8".
I am still liking the W2-2243S for >800hz and am thinking of a new woofer. I have the 15" drivers for the lows but am interested in a big dome. A 24" long and 8" ID PVC pipe is the top contender to hold it with a monotile baffle.
There just seems to be a better shape on-axis with a dome.
I am interested what 1/2 WL can fit at a single length. This can do around 600hz but I might want a little lower.
i think by the year 3081 I should be done with this project! I assume my future AI simulation will continue the work.
