Here is another picture of my setup.
Sry. for bothering you, but i am a little proud soo far, of my woodwork 🙂
It's hard to resist, assambling them quicker, but i decided that they should be made very good.
So far i painted / sanded etc... 4times, to get a smooth surface, the rest will (black paint) be done, when sides are on / edge banding glued.
Jesper.
Sry. for bothering you, but i am a little proud soo far, of my woodwork 🙂
It's hard to resist, assambling them quicker, but i decided that they should be made very good.
So far i painted / sanded etc... 4times, to get a smooth surface, the rest will (black paint) be done, when sides are on / edge banding glued.
Jesper.
Attachments
Looking VERY good so far Jesper. There is no harm in taking your time to get it just the way you want it.
Bob
Bob
Thank's ...
I shoot a picture of my 2. speaker-glue-up. I think i will be able to take a listningtest, whitin the next few day's. The driver i will be using is Fostex FE207E, and when possible, i will add some of Dave's phaseplug's for them.
I have a ''PASS'' Balanced Pumpkin-pre + Dual balanced F4's to drive them. So i am really looking forward to hear the stuff.
I did not attemp to ''breakin'' the driver's, i will just temporarely attach 2. sides of Box, and listen to them, and perhaps hear how they just getting better ?
Jesper.
I shoot a picture of my 2. speaker-glue-up. I think i will be able to take a listningtest, whitin the next few day's. The driver i will be using is Fostex FE207E, and when possible, i will add some of Dave's phaseplug's for them.
I have a ''PASS'' Balanced Pumpkin-pre + Dual balanced F4's to drive them. So i am really looking forward to hear the stuff.
I did not attemp to ''breakin'' the driver's, i will just temporarely attach 2. sides of Box, and listen to them, and perhaps hear how they just getting better ?
Jesper.
Attachments
I left last October's Burning Amp festival with a pair of Nelson Pass's Pioneer B20FU's, and after some dithering they have finally made it into a pair of Half Changs.
The finish was obviously inspired by Bob Trancho's pair, with the center sections in hammertone black (to add a little texture), with the sides in Bombay Mahogany Minwax tinted polyurethane to blend with other furniture in our LR. The tweeter is the same PE cheapie GY Chang used in his double Changs, with a 2 uf cap.
I'm quite happy with the sound so far. Considering that the drivers and a sheet of plywood total under $100, they are absurdly good! Some quick test tones indicated pretty flat bass response well under 40 Hz in room.
Thanks to Scott and Dave for the design!
Bill
The finish was obviously inspired by Bob Trancho's pair, with the center sections in hammertone black (to add a little texture), with the sides in Bombay Mahogany Minwax tinted polyurethane to blend with other furniture in our LR. The tweeter is the same PE cheapie GY Chang used in his double Changs, with a 2 uf cap.
I'm quite happy with the sound so far. Considering that the drivers and a sheet of plywood total under $100, they are absurdly good! Some quick test tones indicated pretty flat bass response well under 40 Hz in room.
Thanks to Scott and Dave for the design!
Bill
Attachments
lousymusician said:
FInish looks very professional, down to 40Hz is indeed impressive. Where can I find the exact dimensions?, all the dimensions for Changs have disappeared...
I agree BF20U and the cheapie tweeters in the one of the Chang cabinets are the way to go.
gychang
Here they are...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Looking very nice, Bill. I finished mine in semi-flat black for what was supposed to be a temporary period until I decided if I was going to veneer the fronts. I also have some cans of texture and hammertone spray on a shelf that I was considering as an alternate. Here I am six months later and I'm so happy with them that I can't motivate myself to take them down (and apart) do anything further.
Enjoy.
Hey Jim - how did the pair you built for the kids turn out?
Hi Bob,
Funny you should ask. Just yesterday I popped in the FE206e drivers and achieved ‘first sound’. (I did break-in the drivers back in Dec. running them on open baffles for 250 hrs.) I didn’t really stand a chance of finishing them by Christmas, but had hoped to get them done in Jan. What with vacation, holidays, and some actual work, it took me longer than I had expected.
I built the box as drawn, except that I made the front baffle double thick. This makes a front piece that sticks out more than the wave guide (vestigial horn?) below. Since Kate wanted it all in wood finish, I wanted to adjust the look slightly w/o changing the interior dimensions of the box. Frankly, I like your two tone black & wood finish better.
On the inside, I covered the top, back and one side w/ egg-crate acoustic foam from Parts Express. Since the kids won’t be changing the BSC, I’ll put it inside on the vertical driver brace. At the moment I’m using a 1 mH inductor and 5 ohm resistor. I haven’t gotten to filling the gap around the driver magnets yet--need to get down to the store for some duct seal.
Picture below shows the driver bare, but since the grand kids are young, a grill is necessary. Picture in the next message (don’t know how to get more than one picture in a message) shows how the grill will be. It’s a metal cooling rack which will be covered w/ black grill cloth. I have to get my wife to do the sewing part. The grill is held on w/ magnets which are embedded in the baffle underneath veneer.
The finish needs some work yet, as I had some runs in the clear coat--a result of trying to work on it in the basement under poor lighting. When I am done w/ sound tests and ready to install the BSC on the interior, I will pull the drivers, sand, and then try again w/ the semigloss finish.
The sound is quite good. Everything is crisp & clear, the sound stage is broad & deep, and imaging is good--I think, but I have never been able to localize things the way some people do, so I can’t be certain about that. Bass extends to the low 30’s, but it tapers off starting at about 50 Hz. This is in contrast to the way the Metronomes work. The Mets are pretty much flat to 40 Hz, then the response drops like a rock. The tapering bass is what I see in the theoretical response models, so I assume the cabinet is OK. The only thing that might be wrong is that I had a dimensional problem w/ the vent, causing it to be almost 1/16” too wide. I did ask about that, and Scott (IIRC) said that room effects would be more significant that that. (Actually, Kate & Peter may thank me for that feature when their kids get a little older!)
In summary, the HCs have more bass extension than the Mets (w/ FE108Esig) and HCs can play much louder. Sound stage is about the same as the Mets, but the Mets have something in the midrange that I like better. It could just be the cabinet and BSC tuning, or, it may be that the folks who argue for the 4-5” drivers as the sweet spot for single driver speakers are right. At this point, if I had to choose between the HCs and the Mets w/ a sub, I’d stick w/ the Mets for my listening rooms (approx. 14x16 ft.) The kids’ family room is about 16x20’, so for them the Mets would have been too small, and the HCs are just right.
Next up: a little sub to match the Mets. Then I’ll have to decide between a pair of FE126 bipole Mets and Martin’s OB.
Cheers, Jim
Funny you should ask. Just yesterday I popped in the FE206e drivers and achieved ‘first sound’. (I did break-in the drivers back in Dec. running them on open baffles for 250 hrs.) I didn’t really stand a chance of finishing them by Christmas, but had hoped to get them done in Jan. What with vacation, holidays, and some actual work, it took me longer than I had expected.
I built the box as drawn, except that I made the front baffle double thick. This makes a front piece that sticks out more than the wave guide (vestigial horn?) below. Since Kate wanted it all in wood finish, I wanted to adjust the look slightly w/o changing the interior dimensions of the box. Frankly, I like your two tone black & wood finish better.
On the inside, I covered the top, back and one side w/ egg-crate acoustic foam from Parts Express. Since the kids won’t be changing the BSC, I’ll put it inside on the vertical driver brace. At the moment I’m using a 1 mH inductor and 5 ohm resistor. I haven’t gotten to filling the gap around the driver magnets yet--need to get down to the store for some duct seal.
Picture below shows the driver bare, but since the grand kids are young, a grill is necessary. Picture in the next message (don’t know how to get more than one picture in a message) shows how the grill will be. It’s a metal cooling rack which will be covered w/ black grill cloth. I have to get my wife to do the sewing part. The grill is held on w/ magnets which are embedded in the baffle underneath veneer.
The finish needs some work yet, as I had some runs in the clear coat--a result of trying to work on it in the basement under poor lighting. When I am done w/ sound tests and ready to install the BSC on the interior, I will pull the drivers, sand, and then try again w/ the semigloss finish.
The sound is quite good. Everything is crisp & clear, the sound stage is broad & deep, and imaging is good--I think, but I have never been able to localize things the way some people do, so I can’t be certain about that. Bass extends to the low 30’s, but it tapers off starting at about 50 Hz. This is in contrast to the way the Metronomes work. The Mets are pretty much flat to 40 Hz, then the response drops like a rock. The tapering bass is what I see in the theoretical response models, so I assume the cabinet is OK. The only thing that might be wrong is that I had a dimensional problem w/ the vent, causing it to be almost 1/16” too wide. I did ask about that, and Scott (IIRC) said that room effects would be more significant that that. (Actually, Kate & Peter may thank me for that feature when their kids get a little older!)
In summary, the HCs have more bass extension than the Mets (w/ FE108Esig) and HCs can play much louder. Sound stage is about the same as the Mets, but the Mets have something in the midrange that I like better. It could just be the cabinet and BSC tuning, or, it may be that the folks who argue for the 4-5” drivers as the sweet spot for single driver speakers are right. At this point, if I had to choose between the HCs and the Mets w/ a sub, I’d stick w/ the Mets for my listening rooms (approx. 14x16 ft.) The kids’ family room is about 16x20’, so for them the Mets would have been too small, and the HCs are just right.
Next up: a little sub to match the Mets. Then I’ll have to decide between a pair of FE126 bipole Mets and Martin’s OB.
Cheers, Jim
Attachments
That's in line with what you should get with the 206. The 207, which it's designed for, will have somewhat more LF grunt.
Thanks Scott. I'm pretty happy w/ the way these HCs sound, but it's nice to know for sure that this is the way they are supposed to work (as opposed to my having made a mistake somewhere.) The HC is great for those of us who (for any of several reasons) can't deal w/ the full double horn version (even though I'm sure it must be superior.)
I thank you, my daughter thanks you, and the grandkids send their regards!
Cheers, Jim
I thank you, my daughter thanks you, and the grandkids send their regards!
Cheers, Jim
Cheers Jim. Yes, they sound like they're operating fine. And as Martin said, they look great too! 🙂
Re: Balance is a journey
Very insightful. That philosophy doesn't translate to all occupations but it is a viable philosophy in a lot of trades. Thank you.
MJK said:
timbarnes said:
Very insightful. That philosophy doesn't translate to all occupations but it is a viable philosophy in a lot of trades. Thank you.
By "you" I don't mean to single out Ron C, I mean anybody in a technical position with experience.
Thanks Martin. But in industry if you are singled out as " an answer" life gets very complicated and demanding. All i ever wanted to be was a simple mechanic or technician(college degrees can become an additional load), but its the life i chose, i have no regrets. I very much appreciate the challenge of innovation and answer finding but in a life sense its very demanding and can take its toll.
Back to audio. A combination of OB(Martin) programming and Scotts/GM BVR applied principals/efforts should be combined to arrive at a singular performance result for DIY(or other) application. I truly believe this will end the overall debate or question.
ron
Thanks Martin. But in industry if you are singled out as " an answer" life gets very complicated and demanding. All i ever wanted to be was a simple mechanic or technician(college degrees can become an additional load), but its the life i chose, i have no regrets. I very much appreciate the challenge of innovation and answer finding but in a life sense its very demanding and can take its toll.
Back to audio. A combination of OB(Martin) programming and Scotts/GM BVR applied principals/efforts should be combined to arrive at a singular performance result for DIY(or other) application. I truly believe this will end the overall debate or question.
ron
Hi i finally got some time listning to my HC...
First impression, is that the sound is very very clear from thoose speakers, everything in music seem's to be placed in the right spot, including voice (I can actually hear, when singer stay's in middle).
Female voice, guitar's, pipe's and such instrument's sound's wonderfull with HC, and i can really hear difference of bad/good recordings (which is somewhat a bit of a problem, with modern popmusic am i right ???)
Well overall i am satisfied... but my wife really would like some more Bass-punch (modern poplistninger 😉) Is it possible to mockup a sub to go with thoose speaker's without ruin everything ???
I was thinking of a switchoff-able sub(i like the sound without too much punch 🙂), located in the corner, beneth the left speaker... Any suggestion's ???
I will post another picture, when they are all finished (or look at Bob's the finish will be the same Thanks Bob 😉)
Jesper.
First impression, is that the sound is very very clear from thoose speakers, everything in music seem's to be placed in the right spot, including voice (I can actually hear, when singer stay's in middle).
Female voice, guitar's, pipe's and such instrument's sound's wonderfull with HC, and i can really hear difference of bad/good recordings (which is somewhat a bit of a problem, with modern popmusic am i right ???)
Well overall i am satisfied... but my wife really would like some more Bass-punch (modern poplistninger 😉) Is it possible to mockup a sub to go with thoose speaker's without ruin everything ???
I was thinking of a switchoff-able sub(i like the sound without too much punch 🙂), located in the corner, beneth the left speaker... Any suggestion's ???
I will post another picture, when they are all finished (or look at Bob's the finish will be the same Thanks Bob 😉)
Jesper.
Attachments
Hi lykkedk, just out of curiosity, do you feel you've exhausted the other less drastic options? For example, I see they are against the back wall but did you implement a BSC and if so, is it worth trying to swap out different values for the resistor and coil? Maybe some experts can chime in...
Just a general question about the brace in the HC. Is the brace in physical contact with the magnet of the driver? It certainly looks like it. If so, how often does lack of QC in the drivers become a problem? I guess it helps to double check that measurement against your pair of drivers huh?
lykkedk said:
I have tried a sub w/ the FE206e HCs I built. I connected the sub via the speaker level inputs, which gives a 6 dB/octave roll-off starting at 120 Hz and aids in blending the sub w/ the HCs. This resulted in a nicely balanced bass, but it does not produce thump in the chest experience, at least not w/ the music I listen to and w/ the way I have the cross-over set (40 Hz) and level adjustment.
I am a firm believer in subs, but most folks would probably see my implementation as too 'mild'. The sub doesn't stand out, the sound stage just gets better and the sound is fuller.
Definitely worth trying.
Cheers, Jim