Jay, I can live with the 28 litre/.98 cuft part, but getting up to 45 l/1.6 cuft is just too much size to me. Besides, something that size would not be able to handle volume well either.
You're probably right, the sealed box is going to be best, at 28 litres, plus the subwoofer to handle the low end. I think that it is the Real winning combination here. It's small enough to be used in more than one application, and it can also be used as a main left and right within a HT application, mounted on a stand. Great all around way to go here.
Thanks Jay for your consideration. We appreciate this more than you may realize. It is virtually impossible for us all to be great with everything, hobywise, so we must rely on others to make our life more manageable. You've done yoeman work here.
You're probably right, the sealed box is going to be best, at 28 litres, plus the subwoofer to handle the low end. I think that it is the Real winning combination here. It's small enough to be used in more than one application, and it can also be used as a main left and right within a HT application, mounted on a stand. Great all around way to go here.
Thanks Jay for your consideration. We appreciate this more than you may realize. It is virtually impossible for us all to be great with everything, hobywise, so we must rely on others to make our life more manageable. You've done yoeman work here.
John L said:
I meant 15 to 20 liters for sealed.
Thanks Jay for your consideration. We appreciate this more than you may realize. It is virtually impossible for us all to be great with everything, hobywise, so we must rely on others to make our life more manageable. You've done yoeman work here.
No problem.
Jay_WJ said:
I meant 15 to 20 liters for sealed.
No problem.
The funny thing is that I originally had 20 litres there, but went back and proofread quickly and said "Oh my, I really mean 28 litres, and then changed it. Trouble is that I did not read the entire sentence again, so I screwed up.
My Bad!!
Jay I need to apologize for my over site, and thank you again. If I would have read your post 28 with any modicum of effort, I would have had my confusion cleared up there.
Sorry, I missed that you had already told us you were modeling with 2 drivers. I now get almost exactly what you are. I appreciate your patience. It has been a long time (20 yrs +) Since I read and understood David Weems Speaker building book. Thanks for sticking with us, we will get it some day
Jon
Sorry, I missed that you had already told us you were modeling with 2 drivers. I now get almost exactly what you are. I appreciate your patience. It has been a long time (20 yrs +) Since I read and understood David Weems Speaker building book. Thanks for sticking with us, we will get it some day
Jon
John L said:
If you're going to use a stand anyway, why not make a "stand" with 1 - 2 small subwoofer drivers in it to take it down to 35 - 40 Hz before you crossover to the sub? Otherwise, the floor bounce cancellation will give you a null somewhere in the male or female vocal range,depending on the height of your lowest 5.25" driver and where you are sitting/standing in the room in relation to the speaker...
A 1st order crossover from the lows to the mids at ~ 80 - 90 Hz would be perfect with the sealed enclosure, then, for the surround / rear speakers just use the upper portion of the design w/out the bass base.
Well ~ if the other Jon decides to do something similar, but without the low freq. portion the way you want to do yours, we'll (Jon and I, since he lives here in Columbus also) have to do some listening comparison to see if the bass base makes as much of an improvement with these designs as it was with the other speakers I was experimenting with a few years ago.
So here is where I am headed.
3 MTMs For L/R/M, Using 2 of the W5-704D's with my Vifa D27TG-05-06
Tweeters, Sealed and Crossed @ 2K 4th order.
Under the L/R channels I will do a Dayton 10" RS-HF Sub in a 1.85 Cf ported enclosure tuned to ~ 23 Hz. I think from what I have read here that I can use my HT receiver to actively cross these to the mains.
I am really unexperienced with the crossover issues, If someone is willing to help....
Jon
3 MTMs For L/R/M, Using 2 of the W5-704D's with my Vifa D27TG-05-06
Tweeters, Sealed and Crossed @ 2K 4th order.
Under the L/R channels I will do a Dayton 10" RS-HF Sub in a 1.85 Cf ported enclosure tuned to ~ 23 Hz. I think from what I have read here that I can use my HT receiver to actively cross these to the mains.
I am really unexperienced with the crossover issues, If someone is willing to help....
Jon
14G-Dutch^ said:I am really unexperienced with the crossover issues, If someone is willing to help....
Jon
OK, if you keep asking.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Again, this is a Likwitz-Riley acoustic 4th order solution. All drivers are connected "in phase." The crossover occurs at around 2.2 kHz. As I always do, this is a result of full modeling, including box and baffle effects. A little different driver positions due to the larger flange of the D27TG-05-06 won't cause a significant effect on the response.
You'll need to experiment with the tweeter output by changing the R10 value (not R9). Don't be misled by the predicted frequency response above. You have to use your ear for the tweaking. My suggested range for adjustment is 6 to 10 ohms (default 8 ohms). A higher value will tilt up the treble, and a lower value will decrease it.
Jay_WJ said:
Ok, this is a question for anyone who wants to answer. I am assuming by Jays drawing that all of the capacitors are non polarized. If I am wrong please say so.
Also, I have seen this before, but I am not totally sure which part of the drawing is the positive side, since his program draws the + sign in the middle of the woofer and dies not label the supply. I am almost positive the top line is the positive. Now you can see why I needed help.....clueless.
Oh,I do have one question directly for you Jay, so that your efforts won't be fruitless. I am assuming you designed this based on your baffle layout from the project referred to earlier in this thread. Is that correct?
Jon
14G-Dutch^ said:
Correct, all are non polarized. And only one is an electrolitic.
Also, I have seen this before, but I am not totally sure which part of the drawing is the positive side, since his program draws the + sign in the middle of the woofer and dies not label the supply. I am almost positive the top line is the positive. Now you can see why I needed help.....clueless.
Again correct. The top is the positive, and the bottom is negative.
Jon, what John said above are all correct. The plus (+) sign on each driver indicates its "in-phase" connection. I understand that drawing in Speaker Workshop can be confusing.
And yes, I used the same driver layout as used for other designs before. But as I said in the post, a bit different driver positions due to your tweeter's larger flange won't make a significant difference in the system response. Be sure to make CTC spacing between drivers as short as possible.
And yes, I used the same driver layout as used for other designs before. But as I said in the post, a bit different driver positions due to your tweeter's larger flange won't make a significant difference in the system response. Be sure to make CTC spacing between drivers as short as possible.
Could everyone please post the DATA files for these projects? Whatever programs you're using, FRD Tools, SoundEasy, etc.. I dont understand why there aren't TONS of sets of "project files" with all these DIY projects around the net?!?
What I would most like to see would be a dipole type MTM with the Tang Band W5-704 SoundEasy project file, so, those of us that don't know how to use these programs well yet would have an interesting, inexpensive, buildable speaker that we might actually make, project file so we can learn the program by tweaking an existing practical design, instead of a not interesting tutorial with either drivers we can't buy anymore, or are expensive...
How accurate is it to "trace" FR graphs? I guess Jay is saying it's prett good?
For those of us that don't have good spaces to measure / full measurement setups, it would be nice to have FR files of drivers taken on large baffles, then we could plug them into programs more advanced than just WinISD
It was very nice and helpful of Jay to put up the website showing how accurate his method of simulation is, I guess following his instructions and copying FR graphs that "Zaph" did would be useful enough, but it would still be nice to have everyone share the project files so each of us (depending on what program is used, and if we have that particular one) could load them up and have a look / play with the design that the work of setting up the project in the software has already been done...
You could call me lazy, I guess, but I do hope to have more time to work on these things again soon, wife in school, 4 year old kid, just got a new job, trying to finish up school myself (I'm almost 40 and went back to school a year or two ago), etc, etc... Maybe most of us are busy, but some of us get to spend more time on this fun hobby than others... For now, I spend most of the time that I can allot to this hobby poking around on the forums, reading stuff, and doodling on scrap paper trying to decide what I want to build.
What I would most like to see would be a dipole type MTM with the Tang Band W5-704 SoundEasy project file, so, those of us that don't know how to use these programs well yet would have an interesting, inexpensive, buildable speaker that we might actually make, project file so we can learn the program by tweaking an existing practical design, instead of a not interesting tutorial with either drivers we can't buy anymore, or are expensive...
How accurate is it to "trace" FR graphs? I guess Jay is saying it's prett good?
For those of us that don't have good spaces to measure / full measurement setups, it would be nice to have FR files of drivers taken on large baffles, then we could plug them into programs more advanced than just WinISD
It was very nice and helpful of Jay to put up the website showing how accurate his method of simulation is, I guess following his instructions and copying FR graphs that "Zaph" did would be useful enough, but it would still be nice to have everyone share the project files so each of us (depending on what program is used, and if we have that particular one) could load them up and have a look / play with the design that the work of setting up the project in the software has already been done...
You could call me lazy, I guess, but I do hope to have more time to work on these things again soon, wife in school, 4 year old kid, just got a new job, trying to finish up school myself (I'm almost 40 and went back to school a year or two ago), etc, etc... Maybe most of us are busy, but some of us get to spend more time on this fun hobby than others... For now, I spend most of the time that I can allot to this hobby poking around on the forums, reading stuff, and doodling on scrap paper trying to decide what I want to build.
critofur said:
There are,.........you just have to root around for them. But all in one place...................?
Let me offer you a analogy here. There is an old military saying that goes like this: "Poor generals think Tactics; Good generals think Strategy; but Great generals think Logistics."
My point here is,..are you aware of the logistics necessary to accumulate all of what you wish, all in one place? It would take at least one dedicated person, perusing the nets, being a member of ALL the speaker building forums, and doing this on a daily basis.
For instance Parts Express has this Horrible forum architecture, where every new thread starts at the top and as it is answered, instead of moving to the top again, it continues to sink to obscurity. If you missed several days, you might well miss out on some real gems that you would wish to save. It's quite maddening what you would have to do in order to save all the databases in one location
Are you willing to start a database here? I know this all too well, because I am an AGW skeptic, and have undertaken to post new skeptics articles and scientific presentations, all within one thread. It is hard work, and takes a constant commitment to this.
So again, can we count on you to start this thread here, for us and our hobby? I am all tied up with my own crusade right now.
critofur said:
For those of us that don't have good spaces to measure / full measurement setups, it would be nice to have FR files of drivers taken on large baffles, then we could plug them into programs more advanced than just WinISD
I have a fair number of this type of file for download at my site. I don't have the Tang Band W5-704 as I have not purchased it and none has been loaned to me. When I get hold of any driver, I post the measurements.
Dave's Speaker Pages
I would suggest that the forum add a new "sticky" section specifically for links to sites that provide files for download since there are a few. They would complement the Parts Express measurements provided. The user will always have the issue of relative acoustic offset to take into account, especially from one site to the next, but that can't be changed.
Dave
Sorry, what I meant was, when people start a thread, or reply to a thread with either a "finished" speaker design, or one that's well underway, why don't they attach a zip file, or a link with the files needed for other DIYers to be able to look at / fiddle with the project if they happen to have the same software available.John L said:
Edit: Though, it would be nice to have a "repository" of such files, I don't have much bandwidth for a server, but I suppose I wouldn't mind hosting some on my personal website, if they were available.
Edit Again: Oh, I'd be happy to make a thread with posts about lots of different speaker projects including the SoundEasy/Speaker Workshop/LspCAD "project" files, but DIYAUDIO doesn't accept attachments in posts, do they? The problem is, if you just put links to files hosted on other sites, that doesn't end up working very well because those links always seem to expire too soon...
Dave: Thanks for the link, I was looking briefly at your site, will look more in depth, looks interesting. Are there links for downloading SoundEasy project files on your site? I couldn't find them so far...
Ok, I started the thread mentioned a couple posts back...John L said:
There are,.........you just have to root around for them. But all in one place...................?
...the logistics necessary to accumulate all of what you wish, all in one place? It would take at least one dedicated person, perusing the nets, being a member of ALL the speaker building forums, and doing this on a daily basis.
....
Are you willing to start a database here? I know this all too well, because I am an AGW skeptic, and have undertaken to post new skeptics articles and scientific presentations, all within one thread. It is hard work, and takes a constant commitment to this.
So again, can we count on you to start this thread here, for us and our hobby? I am all tied up with my own crusade right now.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117295
A place for all to post their "project files", now, to fill out the thread some...
I don't hope to have ALL of the files, just a good few recent and relevant ones? They seem quite hard to come by, I guess people don't like to share them?
That's great! Now remember, at first it will appear that nobody is interested. YOu will have to take the bull by the hornes and do most of the posting to begin with, until the thread becomes established.
It's a shame you can't come back and edit your posts as I can at ai-jane, but then again, I own the forum so I can do what I wish. That way you can structure the information AND add or subtract as need be.
It's a shame you can't come back and edit your posts as I can at ai-jane, but then again, I own the forum so I can do what I wish.
That way you can structure the information AND add or subtract as need be.critofur said:
No, I don't post much for designs. I don't do them in any volume (I don't have a real shop for woodworking, so it's slow going). I do a lot of experimentation with raw drivers and do a fair amount of substitution into my system. But I always also start with felt applied for diffraction and I like offset baffles, so I think that few would be that interested, since not using the felt would often require a re-design.
Dave
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.