miniDSP 2x4HD
I used two miniDSP 2x4hd boxes for my 4 way speakers. I run optical cable to them. A simple optical 1 in 2 out box was needed. If the amplifier gains are managed properly, there is no noise.
I wanted the amps with the speakers, so I assembled my own plate amps using LM3886 boards and switching power supplies from eBay.
I used two miniDSP 2x4hd boxes for my 4 way speakers. I run optical cable to them. A simple optical 1 in 2 out box was needed. If the amplifier gains are managed properly, there is no noise.
I wanted the amps with the speakers, so I assembled my own plate amps using LM3886 boards and switching power supplies from eBay.
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You actually don't need a "computer" as such. Some solutions run fine on a raspberry pi (4B), which already gives you plenty of flexibility and CPU power to do advanced stuff. The pi can be just as inconspicuous as a DSP box. You'd only need a USB audio interface to give you enough inputs and outputs, which will add to the cost, but will also give you more options in choosing a high quality ADC/DAC. On the other hand, if you already use the pre-outs of an AV receiver, it probably won't matter anyway, since generally those are quite crappy already. A MiniDSP will do just fine in those circumstances. If you don't mind buying amps as well, you could also have a look at the Hypex Fusion systems. They offer excellent quality, but will cost you a bit more, specially if you don't need the amps.
For a pure stereo setup, I'd recommend bypassing the AV receiver altogether. Sadly the world is not perfect in this regard. You'd love to have proper multi channel decoding and also have decent analog output.. sadly, even the latest high-end AV's are barely making the cut here. Even better would be digital outs, but sadly markey restrictions apply
How many channels in/out/a/d do you need anyway? What kind of DSP features are you looking for?
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Until I can do some comparisons with digital based x-over doing the same exact function as my analogue active, I'm inclined to agree with you and stay in the analogue-only camp. In this manner, it also adheres to the principle of a pure-analogue pathway for LP's and reel-to-reel tapes that I play from time to time.
This is what I was thinking when I read this thread - but couldnt put it into words as nicely as Scott L -
This converting from analog to digital and back to analog is going to effect something - that was my experience with a one-time try using miniDSP. Currently I'm all digital from the bits in the .flac file to the speaker terminal. If my primary source was LP or tape, I'd for sure stay all analog the rest of the way.
Highly recommend https://www.qsc.com/resource-files/productresources/dn/dsp_cores/core_110f/q_dn_core_110f_specs.pdf
Opened up whole new worlds for me....
Even after having gone the PC, RPI, 4 miniDSP OpenDRC-DI's routes... all feeding various DACs.
The Core110f replaces all those with so much more elegance and ease, and its SQ is at least equal (if not better, maybe due to having it all under one hood so to speak?)
Now that I'm accustomed to open-architecture processing and I/O designs, along with network control...well, I don't see how I could ever look back...
With a little patience, they show up fairly often as 'open box' on ebay for $1200-1300.
Anyway, my 2c ...
Opened up whole new worlds for me....
Even after having gone the PC, RPI, 4 miniDSP OpenDRC-DI's routes... all feeding various DACs.
The Core110f replaces all those with so much more elegance and ease, and its SQ is at least equal (if not better, maybe due to having it all under one hood so to speak?)
Now that I'm accustomed to open-architecture processing and I/O designs, along with network control...well, I don't see how I could ever look back...
With a little patience, they show up fairly often as 'open box' on ebay for $1200-1300.
Anyway, my 2c ...
That.... looks.... so deeply complicated and over the top out of touch with what is needed for simple DSP control of a typical 2-4 way speaker... or is it just me
It seems to have tons of features, that I dont even know what is... let alone understand the meaning of. Where is the remote?
Why would it be easier or better than a fusion amp or mini DSP?
I'm so happy to have the DCN28 from groundsound.... years before any company made anything even close to this level of simplicity, control, low noise and ease of daily use.
Ground Sound
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That.... looks.... so deeply complicated and over the top out of touch with what is needed for simple DSP control of a typical 2-4 way speaker... or is it just me
It seems to have tons of features, that I dont even know what is... let alone understand the meaning of. Where is the remote?
Why would it be easier or better than a fusion amp or mini DSP?
I know it looks daunting at first blush, but seriously it's sooo much easier than traditional routes once you learn it....
It is only as complicated as you make it, because you can make it anything, from simple stupid, to controlling multiple multi-way systems simultaneously (within channel I/O counts).
A/B comparisons become a cinch.
The remote can be a tablet or laptop of your choosing.
I have years of direct experience with miniDSP....Core110f is much easier.
And honestly, every time i look at Hypex, i think folks are almost nuts for putting up with it's complex bi-quad filter implementations, and near proprietary tuning process.
Core110f uses Q-SYS Designer software which has an extensive, easy to follow, on-line training course. The software can be installed on a PC and the course taken without the need for the Core processor. (It runs on the PC in emulation mode for training or design work, and then compiles onto a Core for actual use.)
@Mark100
Ah... now I see. I just come from the Xoverwizard that came with my Groundsound, which easily takes you from the measurement to the filter itself - following a logical path. I see how the Q-sys might be smarter, even though hugely flexible. But I think I'll keep happily to my system until anything breaks down
Ah... now I see. I just come from the Xoverwizard that came with my Groundsound, which easily takes you from the measurement to the filter itself - following a logical path. I see how the Q-sys might be smarter, even though hugely flexible. But I think I'll keep happily to my system until anything breaks down
While functionality wise it's really a nice system, you can hardly call it very transparent. The DAC barely makes it to 15 usable bits. USB input is 16 bit only, might also put some people off. So it is definitely not the ideal über system. However, for €1200,- it might still be a very worthwhile investment.
@Mark100
But I think I'll keep happily to my system until anything breaks down
Lucky you. Ground sound seems to be out of business. So, there is no way to buy a DC28 processor
Cool digitalthor, glad to see it started making sense.
And glad your Groundsound works very well for you.
Hi 4real, yeah, the bit and sample specs definitely don't put in in the realm of studio gear or such.
That said, my experience is that i've wasted a lot of money on much higher spec'ing DACs and USB I/Os.
Because I've found good measurements and tuning practices, along with good attention to gain staging, dominate such specs (by far), especially when considering the digital domain alone.
So setting aside the room, i believe that good tuning is the most dominating factor in a well designed speaker's performance. So how to get to it?
Well, what i like so much about the Core110f and Q-SYS is how relatively easy it is to find that tuning excellence.
Because it is very easy and super flexible to experiment with.
Even has a set of test functions and generators built in; along with a dual-channel FFT analyzer component that you can place anywhere in the design to check signal flow mag, phase, and impulse. Or use the dual-fft for external acoustic measurements like ARTA, Smaart etc. (It's limited to simple mag, phase, and impulse measurements however)
Oh, besides more xovers types/orders, EQs, delays, etc. than i've seen in any other processor... it has FIR too...i'm using it 8ch with 4096 taps per channel.
Anyway, as you can tell .....i loves it
And glad your Groundsound works very well for you.
Hi 4real, yeah, the bit and sample specs definitely don't put in in the realm of studio gear or such.
That said, my experience is that i've wasted a lot of money on much higher spec'ing DACs and USB I/Os.
Because I've found good measurements and tuning practices, along with good attention to gain staging, dominate such specs (by far), especially when considering the digital domain alone.
So setting aside the room, i believe that good tuning is the most dominating factor in a well designed speaker's performance. So how to get to it?
Well, what i like so much about the Core110f and Q-SYS is how relatively easy it is to find that tuning excellence.
Because it is very easy and super flexible to experiment with.
Even has a set of test functions and generators built in; along with a dual-channel FFT analyzer component that you can place anywhere in the design to check signal flow mag, phase, and impulse. Or use the dual-fft for external acoustic measurements like ARTA, Smaart etc. (It's limited to simple mag, phase, and impulse measurements however)
Oh, besides more xovers types/orders, EQs, delays, etc. than i've seen in any other processor... it has FIR too...i'm using it 8ch with 4096 taps per channel.
Anyway, as you can tell .....i loves it
I found the Hypex fusion amp and HFD software to be easy to use and intuitive. I have no experience with MiniDSP or Core110f or any other product, so my my experience with Hypex is simply in comparison to other applications like Matlab, R Studio, Microsoft Developer Studio. Compared to those, HFD is user friendly.
Mark100 says that HFD is complex compared to Core110f, and I defer to his judgment... but I do not see the complexity of HFD to be a problem.
Mark100 says that HFD is complex compared to Core110f, and I defer to his judgment... but I do not see the complexity of HFD to be a problem.
The DAC seems to have decent specs:
Output Frequency Response20Hz to 20kHz @ all settings+0.2 / -0.5 dBOutput THD0.003%, +10 dBu max output levelOutput Crosstalk @1kHz> 100dB typical, 90dB maxOutput Dynamic Range> 108dBOutput Impedance (balanced)220 ohmsOutput Level Range: (1dB Steps)-39 dBu min to +21 dBu max
The level range trim will be hardware volume control as well not digital scaling which helps with optimizing SNR. With the USB interface been 16 bit this means that gain should be adjusted only inside the DSP (where everything is floating point), usually you can wire a volume pot to a control input to provide a control variable for this. With CD quality there will be no degradation this way.
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