aaah yes that old chestnut, 'i've been around a while, so your reality need not apply to me'. good one!
that would be THE pathetic fallacy, its a literary device and has wide application in science as well. the 'nano-carbon' resistor that recognises what electrons are destined to sound good and only lets those ones pass; is but one example. It can also apply here, as broadly as the constant use of emotional language to describe technology.
nothing to do with price, its plain vanilla nonsense. but you are right to ask the question, I wasnt very specific with which particular pathetic fallacy I was referring to, now more than ever (since the merge) the thread is full of them.
'better' constructed parts just cost more, better conceived designs with fairly ordinary parts, win out over bling any day.
I truly have no idea where you pulled the rest of your paragraph from to reply to me...
that would be THE pathetic fallacy, its a literary device and has wide application in science as well. the 'nano-carbon' resistor that recognises what electrons are destined to sound good and only lets those ones pass; is but one example. It can also apply here, as broadly as the constant use of emotional language to describe technology.
nothing to do with price, its plain vanilla nonsense. but you are right to ask the question, I wasnt very specific with which particular pathetic fallacy I was referring to, now more than ever (since the merge) the thread is full of them.
'better' constructed parts just cost more, better conceived designs with fairly ordinary parts, win out over bling any day.
I truly have no idea where you pulled the rest of your paragraph from to reply to me...
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That's cool - I wondered who that might be. Nice to meet ya!
Agreed, within reason. The trouble comes when reason goes out the window, and who knows were that window is? Some folks think that super-duper high $$ cables are reasonable, others think anything more than zip cord is a waste of money. Some think fancy gold fuses are a reasonable cost, other think it a big waste of money.
In the Hi-Fi industry sorting the wheat from the chaff isn't easy. It may be easy for one particular person, but hard to get a group of people to agree on what's what. Thus we see the so-called Snake-Oil merchants trying to sell overpriced, useless gadgets to folks who don't know better.
What's reasonable? John Curl thinks all sorts of esoteric devices are reasonable (or he pretends to). Jan Didden, SY and a lot of other rationalist don't. The old cry of "Your system and your ears are rubbish" is certainly reasonable for some folks - but it can't apply to everyone.
You guy take things out of context. I said that I was the first memeber to make a point that I have been here for a long time and to point out that I have seen a few systems while on diyaudio.com, not that "things" don't apply to me or I'm special. I'll be the first to admit that I"m very far from special.
I made a $6 interconnect (IC) and a/b it's with my friend's $2500 Shunyata interconnects (he was there during A/B test). The $6 came close. The $6 IC was more than just a wire through a jacket connected to RCAs. There was some theory behind it. It did take me about 6 hours to make the cables. What's that worth? Problem with my cable is that it's fragile and there is no other way to make it, but as designed. Start adding this or that and it's not the same cable. The Shunyata bested my cable and is very sturdy and probably took some reseach to accomplish. There's value in that result. $2500 worth, I don't know. Who am I to say?
We also tested a basic MIT and another IC that I can't remember. We agreed there was a definite heirarchy in sound quality. The Shunyata owner couldn't believe the difference in cable quality. Everyone was honest about what they brought and heard.
No one jumped out a window.
I don't know how else to put it. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. All I ever said in the beginning was "try it".
Look guys, I'm going to drop out of this thread. I'm not adding anything of value and am not telling you something that you don't already know.
See you somewhere else!
Best,
Vince
I made a $6 interconnect (IC) and a/b it's with my friend's $2500 Shunyata interconnects (he was there during A/B test). The $6 came close. The $6 IC was more than just a wire through a jacket connected to RCAs. There was some theory behind it. It did take me about 6 hours to make the cables. What's that worth? Problem with my cable is that it's fragile and there is no other way to make it, but as designed. Start adding this or that and it's not the same cable. The Shunyata bested my cable and is very sturdy and probably took some reseach to accomplish. There's value in that result. $2500 worth, I don't know. Who am I to say?
We also tested a basic MIT and another IC that I can't remember. We agreed there was a definite heirarchy in sound quality. The Shunyata owner couldn't believe the difference in cable quality. Everyone was honest about what they brought and heard.
No one jumped out a window.
I don't know how else to put it. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. All I ever said in the beginning was "try it".
Look guys, I'm going to drop out of this thread. I'm not adding anything of value and am not telling you something that you don't already know.
See you somewhere else!
Best,
Vince
I've merged two nearly identical threads. Carry on, gentlemen.
I believe Andrew Jones of Pioneer fame touches on expensive cables in this interview. His reply is interesting; it makes a difference but one easily trumped from a value perspective in the design stage.
Actually, there was a time when cables had both an outside screen ground connection between two ends, as well as a separate inner screen that was connected only at one side, to avoid screen hum and noise current.
This cable was supposed to be connected with the screen connection to the source, and therefor had an arrow to indicate which side should be at the source and which end at the destination.
A perfectly sensible technical measure that has degenerated into a perfect example of Cargo Cult...
jan
This cable was supposed to be connected with the screen connection to the source, and therefor had an arrow to indicate which side should be at the source and which end at the destination.
A perfectly sensible technical measure that has degenerated into a perfect example of Cargo Cult...
jan
Seeing as valve amplifiers are either low or zero negative feedback, valve rolling is almost certain to change the sound, with different gm, output resistance, working current and microphonics. No objectivist engineer would be surprised at all
Good grief, Vince. When has either of those two things stopped someone from posting in a thread?
As for interconnects, they can be surprising. It can be hard, if not impossible, to tell copper from brass from mud from wine from water. I have a thread about that.
There is a video on YouTube of a few ICs tested. One IC is a wire hanger.
Audiophile Death Match (Repost) - YouTube
I don't like to be burden or wear out my welcome.
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Someone had to demonstrate that potential cable differences don't survive an Alesis A/D and Youtube's lossy compression.
Good link, fun video - but I've done better.
Have you tried stringing bananas, potatoes, etc together to see how many it takes to make a difference? That might be a fun "part 2"...
I'm opting for the return of the twinkie 45 days shelf life do that with your frites and mayo. Just think you can listen for six weeks and then still eat them.
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