Yes, I DL'd them all just in case they really do disappear; but after posting and still in time to do an edit, I found the link by searching for its title, but if there's a link at the DSL site I can't find it.
GM
GM
Yeah, in retrospect wondered if I should have posted it, but then it was available for many years before it 'disappeared'; maybe somebody fried their system and made 'waves' about it. My Altecs could barely handle the 'fireworks finale' at modest volume, ditto the H-D, but flat couldn't handle the 'door slam', which needed a multiple driver IB IIRC and now mia. Hope I have it on one of my BUs as this is a very deceptive sub killer with output to 2 Hz IIRC.
GM
GM
Possible liabilities I guess... No issues here, guessing my mains don't go low enough to pose a problem.
Fireworks are "punchy", so is the Harley in a sense with the exhaust pulses.
Which track was the 'Door Slam' on? MJ - Thriller has a door slam...
2 Hz is looooow. At one point I had looked into what was called a "rotary subwoofer", which was a cross between a constant speed fan and a helicopter blade tilting yoke system... the voicecoil tilts the blades in and out, the fan moves lots of air, mounting it in the wall creates pressure changes, and response from 1 hz to something like 30 hz I believe...
Now to work out what would do well playing this sort of thing [in the scope of this thread], as well as most music (I say 'most' because I'm willing to skip the boom-boom stuff - or much of it anyway.. 🙂
I have more to read up on, and need to play with Hornresp more, and maybe try one of the other enclosure programs. Where does the time go?
Fireworks are "punchy", so is the Harley in a sense with the exhaust pulses.
Which track was the 'Door Slam' on? MJ - Thriller has a door slam...
2 Hz is looooow. At one point I had looked into what was called a "rotary subwoofer", which was a cross between a constant speed fan and a helicopter blade tilting yoke system... the voicecoil tilts the blades in and out, the fan moves lots of air, mounting it in the wall creates pressure changes, and response from 1 hz to something like 30 hz I believe...
Now to work out what would do well playing this sort of thing [in the scope of this thread], as well as most music (I say 'most' because I'm willing to skip the boom-boom stuff - or much of it anyway.. 🙂
I have more to read up on, and need to play with Hornresp more, and maybe try one of the other enclosure programs. Where does the time go?
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Hi Dave,
I don't have the knowledge to agree on that statement. But as said they sound good (too me) but that I also think the LTA can do better....thats the reason I saw the thread because I am very curious what else I could do.
Btw I am very curious towards the Emken..
R.
Well, if one compares its specs to '30's - 50's era reflex alignments, front & back loaded horns you'll see it's basically a drop-in replacement, especially when driven with a high output impedance, so lots of plans on the net to choose from, but the downside besides being huge to free standing closet size is that recordings go much lower today, so really limits one's options to either using a 'helper' woofer [or two], OB, BLH or some form of ~aperiodic loading, preferably tuned a bit lower than Fs, which all things considered is the best overall choice if floor space is at a premium and what I'm guessing the Emken is.
GM
GM
@sbcrx007 - if you have the carpentry skills, then Planet10's cabinet should be an excellent way to go - also the cone treatments. I assume a square front edge version could be done too (?) - like classic Onken)
is Augspurger's 2:1 chamber size ratio, 3 equal vent DCR a good way to get away from subjective problems which color some regular reflex? (In 18" cabinets, I used R-J venting)
is Augspurger's 2:1 chamber size ratio, 3 equal vent DCR a good way to get away from subjective problems which color some regular reflex? (In 18" cabinets, I used R-J venting)
I only built the one in Weems book, so not sure at this point if it's the same, but it didn't perform as well overall as the MLTL done for comparison according to various folk's ears, with females less enamored of it than us males, though couldn't really say why, so when these type alignments became a fad here you may recall I didn't join in for the most part. Might be fine for sub duty though.
The two stage one [forget the 'technical' moniker] where a small chamber vents to a larger one, which vents to the room OTOH is an easy way to design/build a sort of BLH and with the right specs can negate the need for any BSC and if one uses simple expansions can mimic a BLH 'close enough'. Think BIB pipehorn on steroids, so can be smaller for a given Fp. IIRC, Scott's more recent Frugal horn is one.
GM
-might be a few cases where DCR 2:1 3-equal vents works (?) Briggs, back in my youth, had his take with 2:1 chamber ratio, one external vent, and the divider (called an "Acoustic Filter") had saw-blade width slits. I wonder if that was to deal with turntable rumble and the compliant foam surrounds he used -?
this is ~3CF - wonder what inexpensive modern FR would "fit" ? I've got some Audio Gradient AX08 which are
hot on the top
this is ~3CF - wonder what inexpensive modern FR would "fit" ? I've got some Audio Gradient AX08 which are
hot on the top
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Toe tappin'?
GM
Earlier in this thread you used the term toe tappin'. With your build experience were you able to quantify some target parameters for toe tappin? Does it correlate to a target Q or elevated range of frequencies? I have some bib's and they are very musical, toe tappin. I also am working on a second system with 12" full range on an Open Baffle for mid-bass and higher frequencies and sealed box for bass. It sounds ok, but not involving. Probably largely to my cobbled together system.
I am enjoying the journey but not sure if I am headed in the right direction. Any direction you can give would be appreciated.
Thanks
GM
Earlier in this thread you used the term toe tappin'. With your build experience were you able to quantify some target parameters for toe tappin? Does it correlate to a target Q or elevated range of frequencies? I have some bib's and they are very musical, toe tappin. I also am working on a second system with 12" full range on an Open Baffle for mid-bass and higher frequencies and sealed box for bass. It sounds ok, but not involving. Probably largely to my cobbled together system.
I am enjoying the journey but not sure if I am headed in the right direction. Any direction you can give would be appreciated.
Thanks
I found it works well for high Qt drivers as a ~aperiodic alignment, so bass is a bit 'stronger' Vs a heavily damped cab, but never promoted it because at the time folks were focussed on the Goodman's APR and ??? cab where the cab is very heavily stuffed, leaving an open 'tunnel' between the back of the driver and vent.
GM
GM
Here ( in Italy ) it's called DCAVV ( doppia camera a vista ) and often the internal duct is only the hole with its thickness.
Sorry, that's a movie - A ( double) room with a view 😀😱
Correct spelling and meaning of the acronym DCAAV - Doppia Camera con Altoparlante a Vista
where the speaker is in sight ( a vista, visible ) opposed to the dual chamber with the hidden speaker as in passband subwoofers.
I'll let you analyze why it should be better than a BR/TL/MLTL due to the different resonance frequency of the two volumes and different grade of stuffing requested ( only in the 1st chamber, mostly )
I like the Em-ken, if paired with a helper woofer of some kind. (I'm still learning about aperiodic enclosures) It's not as simple construction as I'd prefer, but think I could manage it. Haven't made it thru the whole Em-Ken thread yet, was an ideal bass driver ever decided on?
For some reason, I still like the BIB design. But too big (tall) to stack it on top of a helper woofer (and too heavy - ha!).
Also, I still don't get how the bass from the 12lta (or Fane) would combine (reinforce or cancel?) with the bass from a helper woofer... Is this just not a concern? With a full crossover between the two, maybe it just isn't a concern.. though I'd think so where there's overlap. I guess it would be much worse with something like a BIB or FH combined with a helper woofer, with the bass from the full range coming out the long path from behind the driver + direct radiated bass..
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There's also that 12lta Maria Chang that Dave@P10 mentioned earlier, I wonder how that compares to the 12lta Em-ken?
-For one thing, the Maria isn't going to stack on top of a helper woofer 🙂
That 15" FR Fane comes out in about a month too... bigger is better right? 😉
(yes this is a real temptation, though cabinet size would be an issue for some of the larger ones)
-For one thing, the Maria isn't going to stack on top of a helper woofer 🙂
That 15" FR Fane comes out in about a month too... bigger is better right? 😉
(yes this is a real temptation, though cabinet size would be an issue for some of the larger ones)
enclosures tuned with small resistive holes or narrow slits (both popular methods in the 1950's) can distort like hell if fed sine wave in the vicinity of tuning - whether that is a concern with music = ?.
with large signals and small hole or slit tuning , I would expect the lower reflex tuning lower Z peak would just about disappear.
I don't know if 12LTA (of the Fane double whizzer 12) are candidates for aperiodic like the old Dynaco SEAS boxes or not. That method is good with some speakers. Planet10 would know. I assume Em-ken is more useful with 12LTA. (Can the Large Advent be tuned ~aperiodic" to sonic advantage?)
the 15" Fane open baffle could be fun - it it going to sell in the US?
with large signals and small hole or slit tuning , I would expect the lower reflex tuning lower Z peak would just about disappear.
I don't know if 12LTA (of the Fane double whizzer 12) are candidates for aperiodic like the old Dynaco SEAS boxes or not. That method is good with some speakers. Planet10 would know. I assume Em-ken is more useful with 12LTA. (Can the Large Advent be tuned ~aperiodic" to sonic advantage?)
the 15" Fane open baffle could be fun - it it going to sell in the US?
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Just started playing in WinISD, to compare the Em. 12lta and Fane 250tc 12"s. Obviously this is only for sealed and vented cabinets, no option for aperiodic, horn, TL, etc.
It could be played around with more, but for purposes of direct comparisons, box sizes are the same between the two, and were just played with until they "looked good"... I claim no expertise here, just playing around and learning.
What I thought was interesting is that the Fane seems to have more grunt below 100hz (should this have been obvious due to higher BL?) whether sealed or vented. This leads me to again question whether the Fane is better choice for me, given that I'm looking more for GM's "toe tappin" sound than hifi, per se...? Also, in theory the Fane goes up high enough to (maybe) not need a supertweeter.
If I'm doing something wrong, please let me know 🙂
Edit: Added new Fane 15" FR for fun... For vented, not much gained unless the box gets reeeeaaaaallly big. Sealed, even more gain over the Fane 12" and yet more over the 12lta - I imagine that big hump at 90-100 hz might make it rather punchy? --I understand this is not an ideal/flat response!
It could be played around with more, but for purposes of direct comparisons, box sizes are the same between the two, and were just played with until they "looked good"... I claim no expertise here, just playing around and learning.
What I thought was interesting is that the Fane seems to have more grunt below 100hz (should this have been obvious due to higher BL?) whether sealed or vented. This leads me to again question whether the Fane is better choice for me, given that I'm looking more for GM's "toe tappin" sound than hifi, per se...? Also, in theory the Fane goes up high enough to (maybe) not need a supertweeter.
If I'm doing something wrong, please let me know 🙂
Edit: Added new Fane 15" FR for fun... For vented, not much gained unless the box gets reeeeaaaaallly big. Sealed, even more gain over the Fane 12" and yet more over the 12lta - I imagine that big hump at 90-100 hz might make it rather punchy? --I understand this is not an ideal/flat response!
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The bump at roll-off is a characteristic of the high Qt. I don’t like any sealed alignmnt with Q > 1.0 and even then start thinking aperiodic.
dave
dave
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