Frugel-Horn Mk3

[canonken]

Thanks.

The kit I have is PLENTY loud, so I think the FH3 is fine there. Just becomes a question if the FH3 gives me more bass, refinement making that upgrade worth the cost.

Dave, I 100% intend to get new drivers, and always wanted to try Markaudio, or anything the group suggests. You seem to suggest a big improvement.

Also, I do have bigger towers, so I can get a bass fix with a swap.

Thanks!

 

[canonken]

As it relates to Bob's flat pack kits - can someone help me understand the regular vs. Supra-Baffle design? Is this a separate plate the driver mounts on that allows easier removal/swapping of drivers? Any images of what it looks like when built? Any reason I would NOT want this option (other than I think it might look 'ugly')?

 

[Scottmoose]

There is no additional suprabaffle that I know of for FH3 per se. At least, I haven't designed one. Suprabaffles are usually enlarged sub-baffles added to the front of an enclosure to either lower the step-loss frequency, modify the diffraction signature, or some combination of both. FH3 being a boundary loaded design took those into account in the design stages, so none is really required from an acoustic POV. Some kit producers however, provide a removable sub-baffle to fix to the front baffle to facilitate driver-rolling, which can be useful.

 

[bobberner]

As it relates to Bob's flat pack kits - can someone help me understand the regular vs. Supra-Baffle design? Is this a separate plate the driver mounts on that allows easier removal/swapping of drivers? Any images of what it looks like when built? Any reason I would NOT want this option (other than I think it might look 'ugly')?

Hi Ken, I will not argue with the experts here. but I can provide photos of my prototypes with the supra baffle that I make. I believe the best reason to get the SB is to allow for swapping out drivers easily and quickly. And as a "custom or boutique" builder I can really make just about anything you want. Here are photos of my FH3 and FHXl with supra baffles.

 

[planet10]

The supraBaffle is an option to allow easy change of drivers.

Few have been implemented, and we in th eend settles in somethign simple a son these FH-Lite.

If you don’t like the stepped baffle you can make the supraBaffle cover the entire baffle.

The suraBaffle idea finds its populaization with the Cain & Cain horns and was to provide a more consistent wave launch. This idea evolved into shapes more minicing the B&W Nautalus midrange pods for minimum edge diffraction and at one point many shapes were tossed out.

Here an example using flat bits to approximate a tear-drop in one of Scott’s more exotic BVRs.

dave

 

[canonken]

Perfect, thank you both! That is what I thought, but wasn't sure.

I think I would get that option simply because it is easier to swap and get access to the internals if I wanted to mess around.

 

[canonken]

This would be the only 'custom' thing I would want to do vs. a standard plastic input terminal. Any concerns? 4x4" plate, 3" diameter hole. Foam gasket to seal it. I think the only wildcard is how low to mount it as not interfere with the internal dampening material.

Dayton Audio SBPP-BK Binding Post Plate Black Anodized

 

[planet10]

That works fine. I’d ask to make sure they are standard 3 / 4” spacing.

You want the hole to be as small as possible (we had to work really hard to find a small diameter cup we liked, 2” hole), which means they would have to be rear mounted which makes them practically not removable after assembly. Something i do not recommend. At some point you will want to play with or have to change the wiring.

The posts that tuen up as suggested are not any i would use. Looking thru what they have:

Probably the best ones: https://www.parts-express.com/Gold-Dual-Binding-Post-091-335

These are good too. I know they look cheesy, but they sound good. The posts could be removed and put onto the bling plate, but given that placement on the FH3 is naturally protected (being inside the horn mouth), i’d just use them as is. If you want to get fancy you could do a rebate and flush mount the bezel. These only require 2 holes large enuff to accomodate the wire and terminal (since we use 24g the terminal dominates), and wit \h 2 screws into the supporting panels an be removed from outside when you need to rewire. Parts Express Gold Binding Post Banana Jack 5-Way Speaker Terminal

These are interesting if you only use banana plugs. https://www.parts-express.com/Gold-Banana-Jack-Pair-091-1160

dave

 

[canonken]

Thanks for the feedback. Are you saying you don't like anything Parts Express has...and those are the least-bad options?

I don't know if you can speak for Bob, but if there is a default option on the kit he sells, I am happy to go with that and not over-think it.

I do want something I can remove after install.

Thanks!

 

[mp9]

^ I believe WRT binding post he is saying the less metal the better.

 

[planet10]

Yes, as mp9 suggests.

ETI Research or WBT Next Gen if you wat to go max. The terminal cups we got used teh same posts as the second one i linked. I have alos used those. The WBT will not fit three-quarer inch spacing.

The 1st can be subbed in, they are designed for amps thou. I prefer these, ConneX Connector Dual Binding Posts 5-Way Slot, if i am going that route (i have seen these on 10k commercial amps).

Same manufacturer does one like the first PE one linked: ConneX Connector Dual Binding Posts 5-Way Hex Head

dave

 

[zman01]

Here's another option - 2" cutout required for these.

Round Speaker Terminal Cup 2-15/16" Gold Binding Post Banana Jack

Dave might complain about the metal on these - actually there's not much...

I like these too:

Parts Express Gold Binding Post Banana Jack 5-Way Speaker Terminal

 

[vitorio]

I've used the cheap red/black post many times. In my last FH3 I wanted to try something better (foolproof too) and used this Monacor:

Really good and easy to use, gold or nickel. Dayton has them too.



Victor

 

[planet10]

That is exactkly the terminal cips we bought bty the hundreds, but we had to look really hard to find someone who would supply them with the plastic nutted posts used in the cheap PE posts i linked.

https://qcomponents.ca/McBride-TC14.html

[IMGDEAD]https://qcomponents.ca/images/P/770-008.jpg[/IMGDEAD]

I do not like those solid metal posts. I have tossed many of them.

 

[Scottmoose]

For those in Europe, Monacor have a few roughly akin to Dave's preference, with relatively minimum amounts of metal (please note I am not endorsing, just noting the existence):

Single wiring:
MONACOR: ST-922G
MONACOR: ST-925
MONACOR: ST-925G
MONACOR: ST-955
MONACOR: ST-955G
https://www.monacor.com/products/components/speaker-technology/diy-/st-960/
https://www.monacor.com/products/components/speaker-technology/diy-/st-960g/

Biwiring / biamping:
https://www.monacor.com/products/components/speaker-technology/diy-/st-400/
https://www.monacor.com/products/components/speaker-technology/diy-/st-400g/

 

[planet10]

Likely the same as the PE one i suggested, except for the Euro safety caps (removable one would hope).

MONACOR: ST-925

Rectangular cutouts are not quite as stiff, but i am being anal.

dave

 

[Scottmoose]

Two seconds with a craft knife. I really don't know why they bothered, the first thing anyone and everyone does when they buy these things is remove the blanking caps. Spades aren't all that popular in the UK (and rightly not -a pale, palid excuse for an eyelet & screw-lug ), the majority are some form of banana derivatives or bare wire. On principle, I tend to view the latter as favourite from a connection POV, especially with tinned conductors or ends, but from a practical POV banana plugs do make life a whole lot easier.

 

[planet10]

some form of banana derivatives or bare wire. On principle, I tend to view the latter as favourite from a connection POV, especially with tinned conductors or ends, but from a practical POV banana plugs do make life a whole lot easier.

Agreed. A case of “how often do you swap speakers?”

And to take bare wire further, run he wire from inside the loudspeaker to outside loudspeaker and just used the binding posts to clamp the 2 wires together. Fairly easy if you use 24g solid like we do harder with welding cable. Not quite a spermanent as running the wire all the way to the amp.

dave

 

[scottjoplin]

I do not like those solid metal posts. I have tossed many of them.

What a waste.

 

[Scottmoose]

Ah, another thread where you decide to drop in for the sole purpose of making an abbreviated comment of pure negativity. I suggest following Thumper's Mother's advice.