Frugel-Horn Mk3

Seems that no one tried FH3 with the CSS125fr yet. If WAF approved, I might just be the first one to try it...


I'd be wary of suspension's excursion travel limits with this driver in an under-damped enclosure- the XBL motor is very powerful and linear - it's been my experience that the first sign of over driving them is the abrupt and discomforting smack of coil former against rear back plate
 
I don't listen very loud, but if I ever break it, it will be a good excuse to buy another set of drivers, better suited to FH3 :D


We never actually broke a pair of these (although someone may have done) - the volume usually got turned down before fatal damage.

But, if you're looking for an update candidate - my favorite 2 so far have been FE126En and Alpair7.3 - and ya I know they're quite different.
 
I am very interested to know the difference in sound between the drivers. Was there a driver that everyone agreed that if there could only be one, this is it?
Thanks for any advice - I am building a pair and do not what drivers to buy...


maybe a fresher , but several factors to consider when choosing a driver for this enclosure:

1) Room size / placement; many drivers have proven to work well in this design, but not all require corner boundary reinforcement for bass extension - i.e. Fostex FE126E most likely to for most folks, while all of the Mark Audios (Alpair7, CHP & CHR70, and CSS EL70) don't in my opinion

2) Available power, the FE126E does have higher nominal sensitivity than the others listed above, but when the full bandwidth power response of the Mark Audios are taken into account, that advantage is not as great in room as on paper

3) The FE126E retains that characteristic Fostex personality - perhaps too forwardly dynamic and even harsh in the upper midrange for a lot of folks. Not even the most elaborate treatment or EQ can be guaranteed to remedy that for all ears.

4) The degree of fiber fill required to tame lowest octaves will vary both with different drivers and in some cases with amplifiers (such as low damping factor flea-power SETs).
Access to the pertinent section of enclosure (below the driver) can be rather tricky once it's all buttoned up.
There are several methods to accommodate for that, but the most elegant I've yet seen (although not tried on any of my half dozen or so bespoke builds) is to fabricate with removable top panel.
This is complicated by the fact that many of the candidate drivers require at least several hundred hours of playing time to fully loosen the suspension (mostly rear spider in the case of Mark Audios), and it can sometimes be a challenge to wait for final tuning/adjudication.

All that said, the longer I listen to them and other enclosures with this same weight class of drivers, the more I'd heartily endorse the CSS EL70* if available, and Alpair7.3 for the FH3.

*just try to make a bad sounding speaker with this driver ;)
 
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Adam0

Member
2012-08-29 7:11 am
Thanks very much for this,
However I am a little confused... If I understand you correctly you prefer the CSSEL70 in general but in the FH3 specifically, the Alpair 7's Gen 3 has a slight preference?

The only worry I had is that Alpair might be a little too 'metallic'. I once made a folded horn enclosure and ran with paper coned Audax speakers and the sound was wonderful but I needed to have a separate tweeter.

I wish there was a way I could hear them both - but I guess I will have to make two pairs!

One more point - the perfect loudspeaker can make as much noise as live piano in the same room. Is this possible with the FH3? Or do I need to go bigger
 

zman01

Member
Paid Member
2011-02-04 11:35 am
Dhaka
Adam0,

I've heard them both! :)

The Alpair 7.3 has a neutral tonal balance and does not sound metallic. The top is very clear and extended, smooth mids, and in a good cabinet has decent LF response for a 4" driver. One of its great strengths is separation between different sounds/instruments - even with busy tracks it does not sound confused/congested. Of course as it is a 4" driver there will be limits to SPL.

EL70 has better bass response, not as extended a top; EL70 midrange is good too, but Alp 7.3 has greater resolution and separation, and the treble is more airy.
 

Adam0

Member
2012-08-29 7:11 am
Thanks, this is very useful! I will be able to place them in a corner position, so I am hoping the bass will be sufficient - I can always add a very low sub woofer if absolutely needed - but I sincerely hope not! I have a feeling the Frugal Horns Mk3 will work - we'll see? Now I just the the right valve amplifier :)
H.
 
The EL70 will not be quite as revealing of upstream shortcomings (program material / equipment) as the Alpair7.3 - of course this also means they (EL70) could well miss some of the finer inner details.

Either way, it's almost academic as the original EL70 is in limited supply - and for those folks awaiting a new, lower priced (paper coned) alternative for the A7.3, I'm not sure that even Mark knows exactly when that will happen.

The CHP70.2 is certainly an option, but the purposefully tailored shelved response of the upper registers may find many listeners wanting more air. Certainly adding an inexpensive tweeter ( such as ERT26) would be an option, but since we know Mark can build a FR driver this size that doesn't need the help..... "I'm jus sayin' " .
 
In Eirope, last i checked, Rudy @ RumoH - RumoH - Caps, coils and speakers still has CHP70 (the original) and i wouldn'd be surprised if Henkjan or some of the other small Euro distribs have EL70 stock. Also, i'm happy to ship matched/treated EL70eN across the Atlantic.

dave

Edit: Rudy has both EL70 & CHP70.1 -- the CHP are in particular at a bargin price. He also has A7 & A7,3.
Note: if you build with a removable sub-baffle you can easily swap drivers.
 

Adam0

Member
2012-08-29 7:11 am
Chrisb,

Thanks again - I find myself leaning to the A7.3's to begin with but go for a valve amp such as the Rogue - Audio 90 to cover for the low efficiency. I do not want to compromise on quality as so much effort is going into compiling a really well balanced system. My biggest concern is the length of the speaker cables they will need to be 9 meters each, unless I can re-arrange the room.

you guys are giving me so much good support, I will certainly donate to one of your selected charities... keep up your comments, they are not falling on deaf ears!
Thanks!
 
Chrisb,

Thanks again - I find myself leaning to the A7.3's to begin with but go for a valve amp such as the Rogue - Audio 90 to cover for the low efficiency. I do not want to compromise on quality as so much effort is going into compiling a really well balanced system. My biggest concern is the length of the speaker cables they will need to be 9 meters each, unless I can re-arrange the room.

you guys are giving me so much good support, I will certainly donate to one of your selected charities... keep up your comments, they are not falling on deaf ears!
Thanks!


Re efficiency - after many years using various Fostex FE series drivers, we were a bit trepidatious about that respect of the Alpair's specs ourselves - but we've certainly found that they deliver more than the numbers alone would suggest. There are listeners quite happy with them in small rooms & at less than "realistic concert" levels on less than 10W - 2A3 SE or EL84 PP class A triode is a real sweet spot for these puppies

Length, or type of wire - I'll leave that to others to muddy the waters - but will posit that even in this case you could get by with the 4 pairs of #24 solid in CAT5 premise (not patch cord) cabling.
 
First ever build upcoming - some "pre-advice" please!

I apologize for a double post ... I posted this in the build thread but I'm afraid tha may be the wrong place.

I've been wanting to try a speaker build for years, and am finally ready to pull the trigger. I really like the look of the mk3, and the relatively easy build, and from all I've read it should fit my listening styles well (prog rock, prog jazz, jazz, singer/songwriter stuff, acoustic guitar, etc). No head banging to speak of (usually). I'm hoping to get some advice on driver selection before I start. I am in the middle of finishing my dedicated 2-channel listening room, and these will hopefully be the speakers to break in the virgin space. The room is 12' x 17' with 93" ceilings. It will be treated with 4" absorption panels (OC703) on the front wall (behind the speakers), at the first reflection points on the side walls and on the drywall ceiling. Bass traps are in the 2 front wall corners and I am still trying to figure out where to put one or two on the back wall. As this is a dedicated listening room, I'm able to place the speakers where necessary, and have the room to follow the 38% rule, Fibonacci sequence, etc. to locate the speakers and my listening placement relative to them. I can't wait to play around with it! I will be listening almost exclusively to an analog source (vinyl) and my plan is to drive these with a low powered tube amp, which is yet to be purchased. I am not in a position to spend a ton, so I've been looking at something along the lines of a Bottlehead Sex amp, Jolida, etc. So speaker efficiency is a major consideration given the low power.

I'm looking for recommendations on which driver would be a good fit for my space and equipment plan,and whether there's anything else I should know before I dive in. I plan to use 15mm Baltic birch ply, and the cuts will be made by the shop teacher at my wife's high school (she's a teacher) in their woodshop. I will do the assembly and finishing. Again, recommendations are appreciated for this newbie!

Thanks in advance!

Tom
 

zman01

Member
Paid Member
2011-02-04 11:35 am
Dhaka
Tom,

It's been said before, but it's difficult not to suggest the Alp 7.3 for the FH MK3. :) For a bit more bass but slight sacrifice is detail and spearation, the EL-70. Post fom ChrisB above pretty much says it all.

Others will surely chime in, and whichever the choice I hope you enjoy.
 
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HuangQ

New member
2012-01-06 1:23 pm
Has anyone tried the Diatone P-610MB in the Frugel-Horn MK3?

diatone_p-610mb_01.jpg

diatone_p-610mb_02.jpg
 
my Chp 70's are coming up to 80 hours of break in.
Trying 'em again Saturday ? Etr 26's at the ready :).
More concerned with their seeming lack of mids let alone bass, than the top end rolloff.
Presumably in bespoke boxes, the issue will go away.. or not.
Definitely have to assemble a pair of F3's to test this theory :).
Happily the local RONA has a good supply of 5' x 5' ply sheets.