I was browsing some ads and came across those two transports that use exactly the same boombox transport as Shigaclone:
https://www.audiophil-online.com/news/accuphase-dp-450-cd-player/
https://www.analogueseduction.net/cd-players-transports/luxman-d-n150-player-with-dac.html
https://www.audiophil-online.com/news/accuphase-dp-450-cd-player/
https://www.analogueseduction.net/cd-players-transports/luxman-d-n150-player-with-dac.html
Well that's good and bad I guess.
The good: Cheap and easy to replace. Plenty of genuine and non-genuine available all over the world.
The bad: It's one of the cheapest and nastiest laser mechanisms ever made.
The Mabuchi (or clone) RF-310T-11400 long shaft 5.9V spindle motor. Their bearings are made of cheese and the brushes/commutators get chopped up by aggressive drive conditions. (over driving for fast startup and stop)
The best drive mechanisms used were BSL (brushless/slotless) motors with a lower sapphire thrust bearing and an upper high quality sleeve. Run-out is non-existent on such motors.
Most CD player issues can be placed firmly at the feet of cheap Mabuchi brushed spindle motors.
But you are perfectly correct about Accuphase using these cheap Sanyos. It's kinda sad, but they are between a rock and a hard place. Make their own at huge cost and still need to out-source the optical block itself, or use an ultra cheap commodity mechanism and stock enough spare parts to last forever for their customers. They ran out of Sony BU-xxx mechs back in the day for their TOTL players and upset some customers.
I just wish they'd be honest and not talk up the mechanism as something special. It'd be better to say, it's a decent, low cost mechanism that's easily replaceable. In fact they could potentially offer a lifetime guarantee on the laser as they could stock enough mechs to send them out for free.
The best drive mechanisms used were BSL (brushless/slotless) motors with a lower sapphire thrust bearing and an upper high quality sleeve. Run-out is non-existent on such motors.
Most CD player issues can be placed firmly at the feet of cheap Mabuchi brushed spindle motors.
But you are perfectly correct about Accuphase using these cheap Sanyos. It's kinda sad, but they are between a rock and a hard place. Make their own at huge cost and still need to out-source the optical block itself, or use an ultra cheap commodity mechanism and stock enough spare parts to last forever for their customers. They ran out of Sony BU-xxx mechs back in the day for their TOTL players and upset some customers.
I just wish they'd be honest and not talk up the mechanism as something special. It'd be better to say, it's a decent, low cost mechanism that's easily replaceable. In fact they could potentially offer a lifetime guarantee on the laser as they could stock enough mechs to send them out for free.
concerning SANYO's SF-P101 and SF-P 100 you are right; very unreliable and low lifetime expectancy of the laser diode used.
Concerning the SF-91 the opposite is the case - one of the most reliable and laser diodes with very long lifetime expectancy.
I know this because I performed repair service for Cambridge Audio Distribution – for about 10 years starting in 1994. The CD-4, Trac1, CD-T, and CD-6 models used Sanyo's SF-91, and I only had two examples where the laser diode (and thus the laser unit) was defective – once due to overvoltage damage (after a thunderstorm) and once due to a fault in the associated APC circuit.
This is the reason, why I recommend when buying used cd player models, make sure that reliable laser units like the SF91 (or JVC's OPTIMA series) are installed in the models (the vasiltech list is here very helpful).
Most problems were observed in the pulley/turntable of the disc motor resp- spindle motor, because the tolerances for perfect disc centering and the correct disc height were too large.
These statements refer to the parts of the original equipment - unfortunately, I don't know how it was with the later offered spare parts of these laser units and mechanism.
P.S.: who know the formerly and currently manufacturer of this mechanism (especially the laser units) ?
As I know, SANYO was the trader/wholesaler, not the manufacturer of this mechanism.
I really don't know anymore who actually makes the laser block, but there are clearly a ton of non-genuine ones that range from poor to quite good. I've used some Sony KSS copies that have been excellent when I expected nothing much from them.
The originals had "Sanyo" moulded into the laser block, but that doesn't mean anything now when our Chinese friends can copy and/or use the logo.
The SF-91 was a nicer mech, but it all comes down to how to how the drive circuitry drives the spindle and tracking motors. Hard startup and stop with gross over volting is common which burns up commutators. Onkyo were one of the worst for that. Basically nuking spindle motors in a few years to get sub 1 second TOC/Access.
I have two transport on my rack that are in use for the last 20 years: CEC TL0 and Shigaclone. You know what they have in common: Mabuchi motors.
Those may not look like much, but I don’t recall anybody complaining that motor failed, either in this thread or from people who got transports from me. And some are being used with heavy pucks. One tech was saying that as long as you don’t use shuffle or random play mode, Mabuchi motor should be fine.
Those may not look like much, but I don’t recall anybody complaining that motor failed, either in this thread or from people who got transports from me. And some are being used with heavy pucks. One tech was saying that as long as you don’t use shuffle or random play mode, Mabuchi motor should be fine.
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I agree. This Mabuchi motors are very reliable from my experience. In contrast to other spindle motor brands such as Matsushita - I had to replace these frequently, although I always chose Mabuchi as a replacement despite the higher effort regarding the different arrangement of the fastening threads (e.g. for the Linn Karik, PROTON AC-420, TANDBERG TCP 4025, TEAC PD-H500 and UHER UCD-410R - all equipped with the Hitachi HOP-M3 mechanism).
P.S.: in CEC's TL0 is a SF-90 in use. In other CEC models, which I have had, also the SF-90 is in use.
The lens suspension of the SF-90 on my cd player devices behaves exact in that kind, as if it were stored in a very viscous oil (not the case on the SF-91).
Is this on your SF-90 device also the case ?
Thanks for looking.
This effect I mentioned in post #30 under
YBA CD2 Delta, Classe CDP .3, Roksan Caspian ... main board
P.S.: in CEC's TL0 is a SF-90 in use. In other CEC models, which I have had, also the SF-90 is in use.
The lens suspension of the SF-90 on my cd player devices behaves exact in that kind, as if it were stored in a very viscous oil (not the case on the SF-91).
Is this on your SF-90 device also the case ?
Thanks for looking.
This effect I mentioned in post #30 under
YBA CD2 Delta, Classe CDP .3, Roksan Caspian ... main board
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The Sony CDP-X77esD has a BSL sapphire bearing motor. That's why, 35 years later it is still working perfectly...
And that's why the world's first commercially released model, the CDP-101 had a brushless, slotless, direct drive spindle motor as well. No rocket science. All the first gen and TOTL players had quality spindle motors. No cheap-a#s Mabuchis in top models.
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I ordered sanyo sf-p101n that my spindle is not stable.
It's new and have nail on spindle.
This shop seems reasonable and have a lot of parts.
https://cdpartsman.com/
It's new and have nail on spindle.
This shop seems reasonable and have a lot of parts.
https://cdpartsman.com/
the most deficiency on this board are the very bad caps C154 and C153 B (47uF, 16V). Unfortunately the traces are also oxydated - check out the images in post #10 under
Accuphase DP-65V dead transport section