Brian and Brad,
any voice coil needs an air gap to be able to move.
As the Fertin has a phase plug where some other speakers have a dustcap with is air-proof. The Lowther too has a phase plug but
1st
it has a way smaqller airgap than the Fertin
2nd
the innner suspension, the centering spider of the lowther is air-proof
The Fertin is not air-proof diaphragm-front-to-back with the basket sealed into the baffle. So on bigger excursions, it whistles thru the VC airgap.
Warning by the German dealer.
any voice coil needs an air gap to be able to move.
As the Fertin has a phase plug where some other speakers have a dustcap with is air-proof. The Lowther too has a phase plug but
1st
it has a way smaqller airgap than the Fertin
2nd
the innner suspension, the centering spider of the lowther is air-proof
The Fertin is not air-proof diaphragm-front-to-back with the basket sealed into the baffle. So on bigger excursions, it whistles thru the VC airgap.
Warning by the German dealer.
interested related reading
This came up in one of out local HK boards.
http://www.audioboard.com.hk/abforums/AudioBoard2/posts/3728.html
It also presents some interesting alternatives for open baffle possibilities.
Brian
This came up in one of out local HK boards.
http://www.audioboard.com.hk/abforums/AudioBoard2/posts/3728.html
It also presents some interesting alternatives for open baffle possibilities.
Brian
IN Regard to Fertin Baffle Size....
In regard to the potentially obtrusive baffle size that seems most appropriate for the Fertins, it occurred to me that (taking Bernhard's design and vibration notes as a starting point) the main baffle could be made to be removable when not listening to music. If wings are hinged they and the baffles could be folded flat and stacked against the wall when not in use.
I had in mind that with the driver supported from the magnet and with a small portion of the front baffle permanently attached, the larger portion of the baffle, supported by rubber bumpers could then be removable.
Finally, if it is acoustically desirable to turn Bernhard's bass box 45 degrees one could have a more reasonable in-room footprint for various occasions. For instance, in my room the TV can't be seen from all locations because of the hughe speaker boxes.
In regard to the potentially obtrusive baffle size that seems most appropriate for the Fertins, it occurred to me that (taking Bernhard's design and vibration notes as a starting point) the main baffle could be made to be removable when not listening to music. If wings are hinged they and the baffles could be folded flat and stacked against the wall when not in use.
I had in mind that with the driver supported from the magnet and with a small portion of the front baffle permanently attached, the larger portion of the baffle, supported by rubber bumpers could then be removable.
Finally, if it is acoustically desirable to turn Bernhard's bass box 45 degrees one could have a more reasonable in-room footprint for various occasions. For instance, in my room the TV can't be seen from all locations because of the hughe speaker boxes.
Fertin Group Buy
Well, I *still* am, but this thread seems to be fizzling a little, what with folk now going on about issues peripheral to that particular subject. I want to do this anyway. I can't seem to get Fertin's agent to respond but BlackForest Audio has responded, so I'll go ahead with them at some point, even if it's solo. We've got a pretty good 12v power supply setup that I'm dying to try, and this will save me from the Sierra Brooks/TAD 4002 thing on my next speaks.
But I'd be happy to go in with "enough" others to make it happen. A buck's a buck.
Peter C
Well, I *still* am, but this thread seems to be fizzling a little, what with folk now going on about issues peripheral to that particular subject. I want to do this anyway. I can't seem to get Fertin's agent to respond but BlackForest Audio has responded, so I'll go ahead with them at some point, even if it's solo. We've got a pretty good 12v power supply setup that I'm dying to try, and this will save me from the Sierra Brooks/TAD 4002 thing on my next speaks.
But I'd be happy to go in with "enough" others to make it happen. A buck's a buck.
Peter C
RE Group Buy
I'm still interested - but as the discussion has gone forward, I'm now interested in seeing how successful the current owners are in mating woofers to the Fertin.
I've finally (this week) got my sub to integrate w/ the Hammer S12 and it wasn't easy. In any case, the quality of the bass isn't as fast and present as the Cabasse 21NDC in my other speakers.
Mike
I'm still interested - but as the discussion has gone forward, I'm now interested in seeing how successful the current owners are in mating woofers to the Fertin.
I've finally (this week) got my sub to integrate w/ the Hammer S12 and it wasn't easy. In any case, the quality of the bass isn't as fast and present as the Cabasse 21NDC in my other speakers.
Mike
Whilst it's not a Fertin
it is a field coil, so I thought you guys might like to see it. Perchance has anyone heard anything of, or even heard this beast?
From <a href="http://www.shindo-laboratory.co.jp/English/speaker.html">Shindo Labs</a>, the Lafitte.
<img src=http://www.shindo-laboratory.co.jp/info/MODEL%20S-20F.jpg>
TTFN
it is a field coil, so I thought you guys might like to see it. Perchance has anyone heard anything of, or even heard this beast?
From <a href="http://www.shindo-laboratory.co.jp/English/speaker.html">Shindo Labs</a>, the Lafitte.
<img src=http://www.shindo-laboratory.co.jp/info/MODEL%20S-20F.jpg>
TTFN
Brett and all,
last two days i was attending AAA anlogue audio show in Frankfurt, Germany, and i met an elder person i told baout FR speekers and he said he just bought a RFR speasker from K.Aschenbrenner who is the German Shindo distributor. From the description he gave me, it must be that speaker on the pix. I just remember his radiant face whne soke enthusingly about this speaker and as he snorted at the same speakers i did not like and preferred the same pro TT audio and studio speakers i liked best at the show, i dare to guess it must be an extremely musical and pleasantly sounding speaker.
BTW,
no speaker came close to the Fertin above 80Hz on this show and there were some very expensive ones.
The thing i liked best at this show was an Eastern Germany company making monitor speakers for studio use; there the comparison between the original master tape and the record made from this tape was demoed on EMT studio TTs (i clearly preferred the tape, but the mastering job of this record was obvioulsy flawed).
The speakers of this manufacturer were 2way coaxials with paper cones. I would send any person seeking small size speakers to that manufacturer.
But i am happy with my Fertins.
last two days i was attending AAA anlogue audio show in Frankfurt, Germany, and i met an elder person i told baout FR speekers and he said he just bought a RFR speasker from K.Aschenbrenner who is the German Shindo distributor. From the description he gave me, it must be that speaker on the pix. I just remember his radiant face whne soke enthusingly about this speaker and as he snorted at the same speakers i did not like and preferred the same pro TT audio and studio speakers i liked best at the show, i dare to guess it must be an extremely musical and pleasantly sounding speaker.
BTW,
no speaker came close to the Fertin above 80Hz on this show and there were some very expensive ones.
The thing i liked best at this show was an Eastern Germany company making monitor speakers for studio use; there the comparison between the original master tape and the record made from this tape was demoed on EMT studio TTs (i clearly preferred the tape, but the mastering job of this record was obvioulsy flawed).
The speakers of this manufacturer were 2way coaxials with paper cones. I would send any person seeking small size speakers to that manufacturer.
But i am happy with my Fertins.
Peter,
the Supravox is a risky experiment anyway, their QC seems to be non-existent. Jean-Michel LeCleac'h reported magnets falling off the basket at HiFi show demo speakers and fromother corners of Europe i hear similar things.
The PHY is superbly made but needs a tweeter according to anyonewho heard it. And is coloured to the extent of being loathsome if i believe my friend. Luigi Reto Andreoli uses the PHY for his wonderful open baffle speaker but also uses a tweeter.
I don't, with my Fertins. No tweeter needed. The only tweeter visible has basket diameter of 8"
Heck,
if this nasty title under my moniker lets me, i may post the promised listening comparison between Fertin OB and my reality-check 2ways one day. No time so far, i apologize.
the Supravox is a risky experiment anyway, their QC seems to be non-existent. Jean-Michel LeCleac'h reported magnets falling off the basket at HiFi show demo speakers and fromother corners of Europe i hear similar things.
The PHY is superbly made but needs a tweeter according to anyonewho heard it. And is coloured to the extent of being loathsome if i believe my friend. Luigi Reto Andreoli uses the PHY for his wonderful open baffle speaker but also uses a tweeter.
I don't, with my Fertins. No tweeter needed. The only tweeter visible has basket diameter of 8"
Heck,
if this nasty title under my moniker lets me, i may post the promised listening comparison between Fertin OB and my reality-check 2ways one day. No time so far, i apologize.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'll be very interested in any and all results.
At the risk of seeming heretical, has anyone ever reflex loaded one of these things? If they'll generate down to 50Hz, my guess is that they can do the next octave down without a lot of semi-exotic help, just a big box.
Peter C
At the risk of seeming heretical, has anyone ever reflex loaded one of these things? If they'll generate down to 50Hz, my guess is that they can do the next octave down without a lot of semi-exotic help, just a big box.
Peter C
I understand.
I do have certain space considerations, but I'm also dealing with 44" x 22" x 19" reflex boxes for my co-axes now. I just saw the ~50l. VAS and said, "hmmmm."
Also, I know how to do reflex loading. I'm really trying to avoid having to do any crossover at all, which also avoids the woofer integration bugaboos, as well. But I'm not doctrinaire about this. If open baffles are the way to do it, at least it's cheap to prototype and demonstrate the effect one way or another.
Peter C
I do have certain space considerations, but I'm also dealing with 44" x 22" x 19" reflex boxes for my co-axes now. I just saw the ~50l. VAS and said, "hmmmm."
Also, I know how to do reflex loading. I'm really trying to avoid having to do any crossover at all, which also avoids the woofer integration bugaboos, as well. But I'm not doctrinaire about this. If open baffles are the way to do it, at least it's cheap to prototype and demonstrate the effect one way or another.
Peter C
All,
could you do me the favour to wait some days until you approach Black Forest?
I intend to find out Fertin location and write them a friendly letter in French. Maybe we can get in business with them directly. Michel Prin in out of Q as a filter in between and also Black Forest is very lazy in promoting this wonderful speaker. Maybe i can tell them things they want to hear.
Did i get that right? interest for 4 pairs of FLB20EX?
could you do me the favour to wait some days until you approach Black Forest?
I intend to find out Fertin location and write them a friendly letter in French. Maybe we can get in business with them directly. Michel Prin in out of Q as a filter in between and also Black Forest is very lazy in promoting this wonderful speaker. Maybe i can tell them things they want to hear.
Did i get that right? interest for 4 pairs of FLB20EX?
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