Off-highway logging trucks, (as a young man---V-12 Jimmys /12 speed Allison's, above 115 db (tested) looong shifts = Tinnitus!
Protect your hearing folks!
Don
Protect your hearing folks!
Don
chrisb said:
Dunno, except for the elderly whose hearing is lost due to age, most folks get it through intentional and/or indifferent abuse, so don't see why they should be rewarded for it.
At the time my response was 'much ado about nothing', but I wondered if its 'magic' was only with its extreme HF factored in where I would probably miss it, but he agreed and is much younger, so as always the usual disclaimers apply.
Frankly, except for the ~2 kHz 'bite' I had to EQ on my pair of CSS FR125S, so far I prefer them to any of the small Fostex I've auditioned. The FE108ES in a sealed cab mated to dual woofers was a major disappointment even once I got them aligned close enough. Way too dynamics challenged for me. Maybe if they were XO'd much higher, say around 500-800 Hz to some wide BW woofers. I guess I like cinema/stage/outdoor size sound too much.
GM
serenechaos said:
Just looked at the factory response and knowing it' probably much worse than shown I don't see how anyone can listen to it for any length of time if not tone deaf due to such a broadband sawtooth HF response, so what am I missing that makes it so great?
GM
been asking myself the same question.GM said:
fwiw the zaphaudio.com166esr measurments were close to fostex specs, not so with the standard model.
as far as i know kloss and i think one other guy didnt have a bad opinion of the 138.Scottmoose said:
Scottmoose said:
...look like the topography of Switzerland. I heard a version of a Lowther horn with two mouths, Audiovector or something like that. Ouch, two minutes and then went out from the room. There are better ones I assume, as there are users that are happy with them.
Peter
mp9 said:
Dr. ODD
Post #261 is a nearfield measurement of my littel Top at Post 185.
Beside of that, I dont know why, but the FE138, when it is broken in, sounds much better than I would have suggested seeing the mesurements. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113305&perpage=25&pagenumber=14
ianc13 Post #209
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=113305&perpage=25&pagenumber=9
M_Balou Post #235 , Post #247 ,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113305&perpage=25&pagenumber=10
and Post #283
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113305&perpage=25&pagenumber=12
serenechaos said:
Thanks for the links, but other than its lack of any audible potential for sibilance I still don't see why it would be considered excellent or even acceptable to folks with good HF hearing. WRT the bottom end, a BLH appears to be a viable option based on the included measured response, though a sub system would be a better choice IMO.
GM
I'm really not interested in another blh @ this point.GM said:
Looks like it would need to be a three-way, no?
Roll the highs off before the peaks start, and try to find a tweeter with a matching voice...
AJ shows a sealed box F3~ 130 Hz;
or BVR is ~60Hz...
I have a nice pair of subs to work w/ either.
That's my plan @ this point; unless someone has a better suggestion...
I'm all ears.
glad you pointed that out because i didnt get that and its something i hate to hear in any speaker system. that helps me especially after seeing the fostex fq res plot. is everyone here in agreement of the 138 lack of sibilance with female vocalist?GM said:
serenechaos said:
i'm confused, i thought the others are happy with its sound above 1khz. and beyond. now that i assume youve more hours on them, can you describe how those nasty looking peaks are interfering with the music and overall sound quality?
i'm confused too.
1)i don't think ianc13 had any comments on the highs, or ever got back on the sound.
2) M_Balou seemed quite happy with the top end, but hasn't been back in a while...
3) Dr. ODD didn't comment on the highs, but as i just posted, said "when it is broken in, sounds much better than I would have suggested seeing the measurements...."
4) Kloss is using a tweeter with his, and said he'll be rebuilding as a three-way.
--I haven't listened to mine in a week, been working on a pair of THs & mid horns, need to hook them up again & get more hours on them. It has helped. I have next week off & will run 'em in some more & report back...
build a proper sealed box and/or bvr.
They do have very nice mids. No sibilance that I remember hearing, and generally warm, yet clear, and detailed.
Don't usually get all those pieces in one driver...
r
1)i don't think ianc13 had any comments on the highs, or ever got back on the sound.
2) M_Balou seemed quite happy with the top end, but hasn't been back in a while...
3) Dr. ODD didn't comment on the highs, but as i just posted, said "when it is broken in, sounds much better than I would have suggested seeing the measurements...."
4) Kloss is using a tweeter with his, and said he'll be rebuilding as a three-way.
--I haven't listened to mine in a week, been working on a pair of THs & mid horns, need to hook them up again & get more hours on them. It has helped. I have next week off & will run 'em in some more & report back...
build a proper sealed box and/or bvr.
They do have very nice mids. No sibilance that I remember hearing, and generally warm, yet clear, and detailed.
Don't usually get all those pieces in one driver...
r
mp9 said:
See the two peaks centered at ~2 k, 7 kHz? A Broadband notch at either point in our hearing curve takes care of excessive sibilance either at the source or on the tail end. The 138 appears to be over-damped in this respect, but it makes for great speech intelligibility, so theoretically has crystal clear vocals in a well done three way.
GM
Not much info to go on, but the basics are a ~6 dB more efficient wide BW woofer rolled in wherever the baffle step dictates and an acoustic filter to flatten the HF above ~2 kHz and XO it to a ribbon (if it's efficient enough) or small horn super tweeter wherever the ~5-6 kHz notch is. Woofer alignment should be based on the room loading and system impedance. With such a high Fs though, a half horn, BIB or similar to push the XO down to a lower XO point, then crossing to a sub may be a better option. Too many variables ATM though.
GM
GM
The BVR Scott posted #164 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1490418&stamp=1208851522
has an expected F3 of ~60Hz in half space
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1674269&stamp=1228298661
Kloss used LCY ribbon with his, says it works well (voicing).
Madisound has LCY-130 on sale.
Sensitivity matches, (92 dB; 1.8KHz-60KHz)
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_236&products_id=8291
Could roll the 138 off 1st order & the ribbon on ~2K?
Maybe a PLLXO to THs or Sealed Subs?
I've got a pair of THs that would work to ~100, or a pair of Bag End 18s that would go a little higher.
Or would the 138 be better in a sealed, smaller box (AJ sim sez that would be good to f3 = 130Hz), with another woofer?
too many options to think straight
has an expected F3 of ~60Hz in half space
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1674269&stamp=1228298661
Kloss used LCY ribbon with his, says it works well (voicing).
Madisound has LCY-130 on sale.
Sensitivity matches, (92 dB; 1.8KHz-60KHz)
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_236&products_id=8291
Could roll the 138 off 1st order & the ribbon on ~2K?
Maybe a PLLXO to THs or Sealed Subs?
I've got a pair of THs that would work to ~100, or a pair of Bag End 18s that would go a little higher.
Or would the 138 be better in a sealed, smaller box (AJ sim sez that would be good to f3 = 130Hz), with another woofer?
too many options to think straight
kloss is using a lcy-k100 super tweeter. you'ld need perfect driver alinememt to pull off a 1st which would yeild too shallow slope for the 138 at that xover point. in other words insufficnt attenuation rate = driver distortion. why muck it up with a fourth order on the 138 which what i'd think you'ld end up with at the xover point you're looking at. but than again what do i know????