sc, www.fergusonhill.co.uk - that you and your wife are bothered by the level of horn delay, chances are i will be too . once had some interest in building a daline tl until i listened to the jmlab's "detached" and elevated bass output. would seem the 168 isnt what we all had hoped for. our economy kept me from pulling the trigger, now i'm no longer enthusiastic about them at msrp. i missed the pair of 168esr's fs on the trading forum.
mp9,
interesting, those ferguson hill 150hz-20k horns.
hadn't seen them before.
thin acrylic looks like resonance waiting to happen though?
are you familiar with
http://www.azurahorn.com/
or
http://www.bd-design.nl/
http://www.bd-design.nl/index1.html
(can' link right to it, but oris horns, swing & orphean)
use a 250 Hz horn, which Bert told me works down to 150 Hz with 166 driver.
I haven't tried his, but did try a quick 250Hz horn in front of 166esrs, sounded good enough that i'll probably build good Le'Cleach horns for them to replace the Austins.
But that's another project, another topic, doesn't belong on this thread.
are you asking about the 138?
is that what you're building something for?
or a 166, or something else?
interesting, those ferguson hill 150hz-20k horns.
hadn't seen them before.
thin acrylic looks like resonance waiting to happen though?
are you familiar with
http://www.azurahorn.com/
or
http://www.bd-design.nl/
http://www.bd-design.nl/index1.html
(can' link right to it, but oris horns, swing & orphean)
use a 250 Hz horn, which Bert told me works down to 150 Hz with 166 driver.
I haven't tried his, but did try a quick 250Hz horn in front of 166esrs, sounded good enough that i'll probably build good Le'Cleach horns for them to replace the Austins.
But that's another project, another topic, doesn't belong on this thread.
are you asking about the 138?
is that what you're building something for?
or a 166, or something else?
...could be don't know however i think plexi would be less resonant than fiberglass of other designs. i'm sure that had something to do with why f.h . went on to increase the thickness. i also like the transparent plexi and cutting edge (cant say avant guard), shape which prob adds strength. i only know the others from their web pages and old welbourn adds in speaker builder and sound practices. interested in the 138 because of the size and allurement of the perhaps fabled "alnico sound" but am put off by it's shortcomings vs cost. i'll wait and see if more experimenting produces something worth having. am currently interested in a solid design for my 166esr.
I have added a Baffel step correction. I dont have any fresh mesurements. I tent to get laisy when I start to like the sound🙂
..." a BVR with LF/WB drivers in which the drivers and vents will exit from the same mouth (conical horn/waveguide) and the rear wave of the WB driver is attenuated in a non vented TL. This type application should give the broad band image a boost as well as appearing to be a more point source.
Think a combo Unity/BVR/TL/ waveguide/conical horn." --------- O.T. however knowing that you're designing again is great news and interesting too, thanks Ron!! not to jump the gun but i'm guessing a first order xover will influence driver choice almost as much as your brilliant idea? settle on the sizes and brand(s) of drivers? and lastly (for now), will they be able to be driven top to bottom by one amp?
Think a combo Unity/BVR/TL/ waveguide/conical horn." --------- O.T. however knowing that you're designing again is great news and interesting too, thanks Ron!! not to jump the gun but i'm guessing a first order xover will influence driver choice almost as much as your brilliant idea? settle on the sizes and brand(s) of drivers? and lastly (for now), will they be able to be driven top to bottom by one amp?
O.T. however knowing that you're designing again is great news and interesting too, thanks Ron!! not to jump the gun but i'm guessing a first order xover will influence driver choice almost as much as your brilliant idea? settle on the sizes and brand(s) of drivers? and lastly (for now), will they be able to be driven top to bottom by one amp?
One amp is the goal.
I dinked(<tech term) with several designs and different applications , and none appeared to perform in any type of advanced manner.
1. OBs with a rear 45 degree deflector.
2. Modular
3. Single FR driver in an upward firing BVR.
Each had their own falts. The best combo appeared to be the above as the entire action comes from a singular horn mouth. The BVR alingment with two drivers appears to be the best performing as far as wave control and point source and loading(or lack of) in the critical range.
Sims were based on the 10" pioneer butal surround LF driver and the 103 XOed at around 250 Hz first order, however this was a first pass so more developement will be required.
Due to the economy all my R&D budget is cut off so i have some time to devote to other subjects at work.
Thanks
ron
One amp is the goal.
I dinked(<tech term) with several designs and different applications , and none appeared to perform in any type of advanced manner.
1. OBs with a rear 45 degree deflector.
2. Modular
3. Single FR driver in an upward firing BVR.
Each had their own falts. The best combo appeared to be the above as the entire action comes from a singular horn mouth. The BVR alingment with two drivers appears to be the best performing as far as wave control and point source and loading(or lack of) in the critical range.
Sims were based on the 10" pioneer butal surround LF driver and the 103 XOed at around 250 Hz first order, however this was a first pass so more developement will be required.
Due to the economy all my R&D budget is cut off so i have some time to devote to other subjects at work.
Thanks
ron
Why?
Well the 103 can be changed out to a 108 or evan a 126/127 with padding.
All it requires is a 90 db/watt/meter driver around 4" dia. The efficency of the LF driver is the criteria of the requirement of the WB driver.
PPl keep wanting to change out drivers from a design, so make it flexable. This alingment is much more flexable than a SD BLH. I just chose those 2 drivers as a base to work from. Its little more than a BVR for LF firing into a WG with the vents/LF driver in the WG with the WB included. I have to change the angle of the vents after a sim which showed wave interference from the rear baffle to the ports. The wavefronts have to intersect at a shear direction. Also the mouth has to be curved for aspect correction. The BR is little changed from a normal BR alingment and still requires the same volume, in this case 2.1^3 ft. The reason for the dual ports is a rectangular port could cause an unwanted resonance from the WB driver.
ron
Well the 103 can be changed out to a 108 or evan a 126/127 with padding.
All it requires is a 90 db/watt/meter driver around 4" dia. The efficency of the LF driver is the criteria of the requirement of the WB driver.
PPl keep wanting to change out drivers from a design, so make it flexable. This alingment is much more flexable than a SD BLH. I just chose those 2 drivers as a base to work from. Its little more than a BVR for LF firing into a WG with the vents/LF driver in the WG with the WB included. I have to change the angle of the vents after a sim which showed wave interference from the rear baffle to the ports. The wavefronts have to intersect at a shear direction. Also the mouth has to be curved for aspect correction. The BR is little changed from a normal BR alingment and still requires the same volume, in this case 2.1^3 ft. The reason for the dual ports is a rectangular port could cause an unwanted resonance from the WB driver.
ron
Hallo Rom.
an idea or built and listened?
I made a few tests 20 Y ago,
and found the version will be
sound in the upper mids
colourated.
The drivers you think about
i never heard good in a FLH
or deep WG with such large throat.
an idea or built and listened?
I made a few tests 20 Y ago,
and found the version will be
sound in the upper mids
colourated.
The drivers you think about
i never heard good in a FLH
or deep WG with such large throat.
I made a few tests 20 Y ago,
and found the version will be
sound in the upper mids
colourated.
The drivers you think about
i never heard good in a FLH
or deep WG with such large throat.
So sorry about that. My simulations says it works, so be it.
Its not a horn in the real sense and its not a throat in the real sense but more of a horz wave launch platform.
Despite your remarks, i think i will persue this alingment.
ron
and found the version will be
sound in the upper mids
colourated.
The drivers you think about
i never heard good in a FLH
or deep WG with such large throat.
So sorry about that. My simulations says it works, so be it.
Its not a horn in the real sense and its not a throat in the real sense but more of a horz wave launch platform.
Despite your remarks, i think i will persue this alingment.
ron
ron,
any spl gain from the "h.w. launch pad"? i like single digit power amps and would want a 107 or 108's 90db sensitivity. doesn't have the scary (on paper), 9-10db peaks of the 138esr (waiting for more feedback). the 103 fostex fq res plot looks like 87-88db. w25gr31-51f = 26hz fs, what f3 are you sims at? btw innovative looking design!
any spl gain from the "h.w. launch pad"? i like single digit power amps and would want a 107 or 108's 90db sensitivity. doesn't have the scary (on paper), 9-10db peaks of the 138esr (waiting for more feedback). the 103 fostex fq res plot looks like 87-88db. w25gr31-51f = 26hz fs, what f3 are you sims at? btw innovative looking design!