will you hear the difference , considering all other influencing factors ?
moi having substantial doubts
moi having substantial doubts
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
EDIT: I am assuming you are using a 1.5uF polypropylene
Hi Folks,
now living sevral weeks with the F3 Im very satisfied with its Sound. Also friends like the involving into music.
Because the 3 way Linn speakers are not the best choice I went to a local Lowther Dealer to listen to some Fideleos with PM6A.
I wanted to bring the F3 to the Session, but the Dealer said that The amp doesnt matter!?
In dealers opinion an amp design with such a high Zout is very awful! He didnt know the developer Im afraid.
Now, listened to Music with the Lowther connected to Old and IMO awful Kenwood amps Im rather disappointed!
Dynamic Not better as my Linns, no space between the musicians, no stage. All in all very boring!!!
IMO the Kenwood amp and also oldfashioned Philips CDP is the reason, or is this normally for Lowther???
Something different: Iread in the docs the F3 has gain of 12.5 dB and Feedback of 6dB.
Has anyone tried a little less feedback, lets say 3dB, to come to a gain arround 15dB?
Whitch elements have to be changed?
The & cheers
now living sevral weeks with the F3 Im very satisfied with its Sound. Also friends like the involving into music.
Because the 3 way Linn speakers are not the best choice I went to a local Lowther Dealer to listen to some Fideleos with PM6A.
I wanted to bring the F3 to the Session, but the Dealer said that The amp doesnt matter!?
In dealers opinion an amp design with such a high Zout is very awful! He didnt know the developer Im afraid.
Now, listened to Music with the Lowther connected to Old and IMO awful Kenwood amps Im rather disappointed!
Dynamic Not better as my Linns, no space between the musicians, no stage. All in all very boring!!!
IMO the Kenwood amp and also oldfashioned Philips CDP is the reason, or is this normally for Lowther???
Something different: Iread in the docs the F3 has gain of 12.5 dB and Feedback of 6dB.
Has anyone tried a little less feedback, lets say 3dB, to come to a gain arround 15dB?
Whitch elements have to be changed?
The & cheers
just take your amp to dealer
tell him you don't need his amp , same as you don't need his ears
you can't judge Lowthers with Drekwood amp
tell him you don't need his amp , same as you don't need his ears
you can't judge Lowthers with Drekwood amp
I reckon F3 to be better with high-efficiency drivers i.e. >90dB. For lower efficent good trimmed F5 is better I guess.
Take the amp to the shop and say:
"May I please listen to these speakers with my amp because I can't afford anything as good as your Kenwood Amp."
"May I please listen to these speakers with my amp because I can't afford anything as good as your Kenwood Amp."
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tp,
You do have a 'strange' retailer that wants to demonstrate a Lowther with a Kenwood amp but is there a Lowther club/group/builder in your area, yes? Or contact the main Lowther website and ask for someone in your area that will be willing to try your amp out - I don't think anyone associated with Lowthers will be at all happy with your retailers attitute, especially in this tough time.
Also, as Than mentioned, use a bit of sales BS on the guy - he obviously could do with something and I'm pretty sure you'll like the combination.
You could also print off the "Lowther - USA" website article about their preference for the F3 with their 5" driver to show your dealer - it might help get you past the initial ignorance barrier -
Then, show him the circuit diagram and point out to him the amp's protection via the output caps - even if he's not technically minded like a lot of audio retailers, this will make sense to him about "killing" his speakers with a diy built amp.
I used to work in retail and company policy was to test all "home-built" amps before connecting to any speakers - good idea at that time, as a few mistakes were found and corrected and over the years, this free basic testing "service" was good for business and we got to hear a lot of very good quality 'hand made' amps that would never have been available to us.
It is worth perservering with the retailers attitude and just get quietly insistant with a few visits with a string of information - when he can see you're serious, he should come around and maybe learn something.
You do have a 'strange' retailer that wants to demonstrate a Lowther with a Kenwood amp but is there a Lowther club/group/builder in your area, yes? Or contact the main Lowther website and ask for someone in your area that will be willing to try your amp out - I don't think anyone associated with Lowthers will be at all happy with your retailers attitute, especially in this tough time.
Also, as Than mentioned, use a bit of sales BS on the guy - he obviously could do with something and I'm pretty sure you'll like the combination.
You could also print off the "Lowther - USA" website article about their preference for the F3 with their 5" driver to show your dealer - it might help get you past the initial ignorance barrier -
Then, show him the circuit diagram and point out to him the amp's protection via the output caps - even if he's not technically minded like a lot of audio retailers, this will make sense to him about "killing" his speakers with a diy built amp.
I used to work in retail and company policy was to test all "home-built" amps before connecting to any speakers - good idea at that time, as a few mistakes were found and corrected and over the years, this free basic testing "service" was good for business and we got to hear a lot of very good quality 'hand made' amps that would never have been available to us.
It is worth perservering with the retailers attitude and just get quietly insistant with a few visits with a string of information - when he can see you're serious, he should come around and maybe learn something.
Hi,
thanks for clarifying this out.
The dealer is in my _neighbourhood_ and Lowther in DE is not as wellknown as in other countries like UK or US, so it is not that easy to find another dealer.
The guy is a technican, because he also recones Lowther speakers, so I told him about my DIY SE class A amp, hoping he understands the _problem_, but the opposit:
(Summary of conversation during the session)
He didn't know Firstwatt and from his point of view every amp sounds equal and ONLY the speakers makes the difference, also source doesn't matter.
I suggested that it will be a good idea to give the F3 a try to raise up the sound quality, because I'm not satisfied with his setup for now he claimed also a scienty A/B compare wouldn't show any difference and a SE design is stupid anyway!
As I told him, that the difference is so obviously that it is noticable from other people only listening sometimes to my setup he mentioned that there is something wrong with our ears and I hear only a difference due to I've build the amp by myself, it is psychological!
In conclusion the dealer is a nice guy, but rather resistant for advice and he personated me (with my nearly 30 years experience in listening to music) as a stupid bloody rookie. This kind of behaviour is not my cup of tea, furthermore stupid and far away from a professional IMO.
So I'm not in the mood to deal with him anymore, even though he made me a good offer for a used pair of DX3.
During the session I learned about the lowther, that they are quite linear and do not have the disadvantages of other full range drivers I heard before.
To build up some experience with Lowther, I'll try to get some used drivers on ebay or wherever and build the cabinetts. PM6A or DX3 which would be better?
Im recently not sure which will be the best way for me, higher efficiency multi way speakers or full range with some bass support - both concepts driven active with multiple amps.
Quite shure is: I'll stay with the F3!
thanks & cheers
Thorsten
thanks for clarifying this out.
The dealer is in my _neighbourhood_ and Lowther in DE is not as wellknown as in other countries like UK or US, so it is not that easy to find another dealer.
The guy is a technican, because he also recones Lowther speakers, so I told him about my DIY SE class A amp, hoping he understands the _problem_, but the opposit:
(Summary of conversation during the session)
He didn't know Firstwatt and from his point of view every amp sounds equal and ONLY the speakers makes the difference, also source doesn't matter.
I suggested that it will be a good idea to give the F3 a try to raise up the sound quality, because I'm not satisfied with his setup for now he claimed also a scienty A/B compare wouldn't show any difference and a SE design is stupid anyway!
As I told him, that the difference is so obviously that it is noticable from other people only listening sometimes to my setup he mentioned that there is something wrong with our ears and I hear only a difference due to I've build the amp by myself, it is psychological!
In conclusion the dealer is a nice guy, but rather resistant for advice and he personated me (with my nearly 30 years experience in listening to music) as a stupid bloody rookie. This kind of behaviour is not my cup of tea, furthermore stupid and far away from a professional IMO.
So I'm not in the mood to deal with him anymore, even though he made me a good offer for a used pair of DX3.
During the session I learned about the lowther, that they are quite linear and do not have the disadvantages of other full range drivers I heard before.
To build up some experience with Lowther, I'll try to get some used drivers on ebay or wherever and build the cabinetts. PM6A or DX3 which would be better?
Im recently not sure which will be the best way for me, higher efficiency multi way speakers or full range with some bass support - both concepts driven active with multiple amps.
Quite shure is: I'll stay with the F3!
thanks & cheers
Thorsten
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just ask Generg for everything you want to know about Lowthers and FW amps
he's German too, but most important - he have both golden ears and wakoo brain
he's German too, but most important - he have both golden ears and wakoo brain
just ask Generg for everything you want to know about Lowthers and FW amps
he's German too, but most important - he have both golden ears and wakoo brain
Golden Zen Mod, happy birthday to you.....
And do not look at my face completely red from your words, i will contact Tp147!
🙂
Just let him read Nelson article to prove he is completely wrong:
http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_cs_amps.pdf
or the next one by Joe Rasmussen
http://www.customanalogue.com/various/Current-Amplification.pdf
waste few pints for moi .......
... I've had some beer yesterday and clinked the glasses on your birthday ....
all the best to you belated also from my side
Just had a call with generg, a very nice guy, thanks for the top-level-contact.
cheers
Thorsten
I doubt that the guy would even bother reading the articles.
Seems he already knows everything there is to know about amplifiers hence his choice to use Kenwood amplifiers.
Trying to educate the guy is probably not the right approach.
Pretending to be dumb usually works better.
Something like:
"I have this amplifier that I built. I know it is no where near as good as your amp but it is all that I can affor. May I test it out with these speakers"
Seems he already knows everything there is to know about amplifiers hence his choice to use Kenwood amplifiers.
Trying to educate the guy is probably not the right approach.
Pretending to be dumb usually works better.
Something like:
"I have this amplifier that I built. I know it is no where near as good as your amp but it is all that I can affor. May I test it out with these speakers"
Something like:
"I have this amplifier that I built. I know it is no where near as good as your amp but it is all that I can affor. May I test it out with these speakers"
"No Sir, as I told you every amp Sounds equal so this Test doesnt make sense!" will be his answer...
... Believe me he is something special...
Also other miracles happend:
Actually I wanted to Listen to Bicors, because of the single driver. At first he had only Fideleos with one frontdriver and one on the top. As i asked for the Bicors he took a LP-cover and puts ist on the top to cover the driver - now we have Bicors!
But it is History now. I did an appointment with generg to listen to his Lowthers with my Equipment when Im arround his location may be in summer.
In the meantime Ill build a preamp...
Cheers & thx for your Psycho-social care 😉
Thorsten
... Believe me he is something special...
Thorsten
How is this guy still in business.