Not with the usual meaning of the word 'fail', no I don't. I normally have no intention to produce referenced answers to questions, unless the questioner specifically asks for a reference. Sometimes I'll include a link if I feel it will be useful.
Anyone who's confused by that answer can ask further questions to clarify for themselves. That's what forums like this one are for - sharing knowledge/understanding.
Even ES9038Q2M dac chips switch resistors inside. At some point it doesn't matter exactly what people want to call that, it only matters how good it can sound in a well implemented circuit. Please let's not get too far off topic into theoretical discussions about how to classify dac chips that could better be discussed in other threads. Thank you.
Turning attention towards Katana dac once again, I am advised new boards should be starting on the their way here sometime this week. Don't know when arrival will be though. They say I will get an early one to check out. As always, I am hoping for the best sound quality possible with every new bit of fine tuning.
Also, as Katana gets to be point of being in its officially final release version, I need to figure out what I could do to make an interesting review about it for readers of this dac modding thread. I am thinking of maybe explaining about the design and what the various parts are for. Maybe something like that if I can figure out how to do it. Is that something people would be interesting in reading about?
Also, as Katana gets to be point of being in its officially final release version, I need to figure out what I could do to make an interesting review about it for readers of this dac modding thread. I am thinking of maybe explaining about the design and what the various parts are for. Maybe something like that if I can figure out how to do it. Is that something people would be interesting in reading about?
Hello
I started a document for those who would like to embark on the adventure.
It's not a document for the "pro"
if it seems interesting to you I would complete it otherwise
Hi,
Thank you very much!
It's really helping me understanding how to do these mods!
Please continue.
Hello
I started a document for those who would like to embark on the adventure.
It's not a document for the "pro"
if it seems interesting to you I would complete it otherwise
Very very good job Sergelisses!!!!
which version must select it 1.06 or 1.07
BR Nikos
Serge, Nice to see what you are doing and that people like it. No doubt super regs will sound better than the original AVCC supply. However, they are not without problems for SQ, as some other people are starting to find out. However, for any easy mod that improves the original boards, it seems great if you can get people to start modding who otherwise wouldn't try it. If they like the sound who knows, maybe they will develop an interest in doing some more things too.
This might be relevant. Five four layer boards produced for USD 72,22 inc. shipping on the EEVBLOG2. YouTube
As we all know, super regs have great specs on paper. I noticed they have some 1/f noise however that some people thought was negligible. So people started using them for things like dac AVCC supplies. Then some people tried LiFePO4 batteries (using batteries is an old idea however) and thought they sounded better, then they started trying using supercaps and thought they sound best. But, they never did figure out why the seemingly ideal super regs didn't sound as good as they expected.
Also, many people missed the above course of events and still think super regs are best.
A few people did take heed though to the 1/f noise and increased Cset to the maximum value of 22uf. Also, using any bigger than 22uf caps with them just reduces regulation bandwidth, so it doesn't help. Using bigger caps even 22uf also slows down start up time which can cause other problems, although there is a way to fix that, most people don't know how, or don't seem to be able to manage the tiny work required.
Even with bigger Cset of 22uf, there is still some reason to believe that too much noise exists at the low end of the audio band which could be problematic for some applications like AVCC and should be further improved. In one of the LT304x data sheets it shows how to use an LTC6655 reference with the LT304x as a buffer to get lower noise at the lower end of the audio band, but I am not aware of anyone bothering because they think the noise numbers look small and they don't bother to measure to see.
Who cares if there is 1/f noise below 1kHz that increases a lot by the time frequency gets down to 10Hz? I do for one, because if using the super reg for AVCC, not only does that noise add to audio output noise, it also intermodulates with the audio signal, turning it into distorted mush compared to clean like it should be. Remember, AVCC has no PSRR at all, so any noise there is bad.
HOWEVER, I still think using an unmodified super reg module for AVCC has to be better than the dirty LC filter used by default on the Chinese dac boards. That is why I said if you can get people to try it and they like the improvement maybe they will keep modding and get interested in even better sound.
Now you know why I don't use super regs for my dacs in critical places like AVCC or recommend them for that. If I could comparatively measure the AVCC circuit I use and various super reg circuits then I could tell you more exactly what I think is okay or not so good. Since I am not equipped to do that in terms of test equipment and I also don't have the time to do a lot of that type of work either, what I do is recommend a circuit that doesn't have any known issue like the 1/f issue super regs have.
If you think about it, it shouldn't be too surprising. Super regs are also called RF regulators and are sold as super precision power supply regulators RF circuits operating above audio frequencies. I would go even further and say they should be fine for use to power any kind of circuits that don't care about noise below 1kHz. That wouldn't be AVCC use, of course.
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The term super reg should cease to be used too loosely. The true Super Reg is an evolution of the Sulzer design and Walter Jung and Jan Didden worked on the true Super Reg for many years. They are not the same as some commercial offerings that capitalized on the term when serious audio nuts caught onto the performance increases they offered to analog as well as digital circuits. In fact, before we leave the subject, it was known for over 2 decades that a clean, low Z, fast power supply improved DACs. Why were they seldom used....cost and complication but many DIYers had been doing just that for decades.
The real Super Reg is not the same as these LT3042/3045/LT1963 and modern regulators which completely surpass the LT317/LT337 series. The LT1963 series should ideally be the minimum as the final leg one should consider in their performance analog circuitry today.
If you'd been building high performance audio gear since the 80's and 90's you'd be able to understand why these super regs were excellent and remain so today. The limit to the lower voltage appears to be 5V since high performance low rail op amps are rare.
Super Regulator – diyAudio Store
The real Super Reg is not the same as these LT3042/3045/LT1963 and modern regulators which completely surpass the LT317/LT337 series. The LT1963 series should ideally be the minimum as the final leg one should consider in their performance analog circuitry today.
If you'd been building high performance audio gear since the 80's and 90's you'd be able to understand why these super regs were excellent and remain so today. The limit to the lower voltage appears to be 5V since high performance low rail op amps are rare.
Super Regulator – diyAudio Store
Again, I stress that the term super reg used in thread 2411 can be misleading. A true Super Reg does not have the issues presented and indeed excels in that area. In fact crazy good. What is being referred to in that thread is the use of monolithic low noise LDO regulators which can provide ease of use.
If you believe that a good power supply for AVCC does wonders. Then the next piece of the puzzle is when the same is applied to the ICs in the IV stage, despite what the PSRR claims are of the ICs. A super reg can in some systems increase the apparent dynamic range where one needs to turn the gain down. It is likely not the real voltage gain but the low noise aspect producing the dynamic range gain. This is documented by both Walter Jung and Gary Galo. Gary also gives high marks for the DAC3. That is not to say there is no room for improvement because I am willing to bet that the next ICs that Benchmark uses will no longer be the LME series but something starting with OPA. The increase is harmonic richness is really there.
Now what is not mentioned in media like Stereophile are the possible technical aspects affecting the sound of the DACS . Remember their role is to review and promote commercial products for sale that might lead to better sound. Their role is not to dissect what makes the product tick. Here, as DIYers we want to know what to do to make a circuit tick.
What is interesting is that the sound being described of the BP Dac is similar to what I had been finding in my highly modified Philips CD player from the 90s. Here I had put in some composite op amps, fed the IV with op amp based Sulzer Power Supplies and put in film caps on the ladder circuit for the TDA1541 and modded the LP filter. Edginess was no longer an issue with digital thereafter. The sound was sweet rich and lush...but the bottom end was never there in its fullness. The detail on the high end was not quite there either. Not like what I am getting with my Sabre Pro DAC. One thing I had not done was upgraded the digital power side on the CD player. Alas, my CD player transport eventually quit and I retrieved what I could and threw the contraption out. Had I kept it, I could possibly feed the DAC portion through the XMOS and upgrade the digital side and see what happens. Too bad.
If you believe that a good power supply for AVCC does wonders. Then the next piece of the puzzle is when the same is applied to the ICs in the IV stage, despite what the PSRR claims are of the ICs. A super reg can in some systems increase the apparent dynamic range where one needs to turn the gain down. It is likely not the real voltage gain but the low noise aspect producing the dynamic range gain. This is documented by both Walter Jung and Gary Galo. Gary also gives high marks for the DAC3. That is not to say there is no room for improvement because I am willing to bet that the next ICs that Benchmark uses will no longer be the LME series but something starting with OPA. The increase is harmonic richness is really there.
Now what is not mentioned in media like Stereophile are the possible technical aspects affecting the sound of the DACS . Remember their role is to review and promote commercial products for sale that might lead to better sound. Their role is not to dissect what makes the product tick. Here, as DIYers we want to know what to do to make a circuit tick.
What is interesting is that the sound being described of the BP Dac is similar to what I had been finding in my highly modified Philips CD player from the 90s. Here I had put in some composite op amps, fed the IV with op amp based Sulzer Power Supplies and put in film caps on the ladder circuit for the TDA1541 and modded the LP filter. Edginess was no longer an issue with digital thereafter. The sound was sweet rich and lush...but the bottom end was never there in its fullness. The detail on the high end was not quite there either. Not like what I am getting with my Sabre Pro DAC. One thing I had not done was upgraded the digital power side on the CD player. Alas, my CD player transport eventually quit and I retrieved what I could and threw the contraption out. Had I kept it, I could possibly feed the DAC portion through the XMOS and upgrade the digital side and see what happens. Too bad.
Have you heard DAC-3? If not, you can't know if any 'harmonic richness' is absent (whatever 'harmonic richness' is claimed to mean'). It may be more accurate than you know. In fact, you could find your PRO dac still has some real problems.
Also, if you have been paying attention then you may be aware that there is more output stages than any presumed preservation of 'harmonic richness.' They are supposed to filler out HF/RF noise from the dac without being adversely affected by it. When comparing LME vs OPA parts in that respect, one should not jump to conclusions. There should be measurements and listening tests to find out for a fact what works best in that application.
So, please, let's not loosely use the term super reg or loosely make other claims about 'harmonic richness' in reference to a dac you have not even heard. I will agree once more than I should have been more specific in referring to LDO RF regulators. Now it's your turn.
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You might try looking at some of these:
Intersample Overs in CD Recordings - Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.
A Look Inside the New ES9028PRO Converter Chip and the New DAC3 - Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.
Inside the DAC2 - Part 3 - Power Supplies - Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.
Inside the DAC2 - Part 2 - Digital Processing - Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.
Inside the DAC2 - Part 1 - Analog Processing - Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/ap...chmark-dac2-vs-dac1-side-by-side-measurements
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0321/7609/files/DAC3_Series_Manual_Rev_B.pdf?9982830537634228604
Intersample Overs in CD Recordings - Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.
A Look Inside the New ES9028PRO Converter Chip and the New DAC3 - Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.
Inside the DAC2 - Part 3 - Power Supplies - Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.
Inside the DAC2 - Part 2 - Digital Processing - Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.
Inside the DAC2 - Part 1 - Analog Processing - Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/ap...chmark-dac2-vs-dac1-side-by-side-measurements
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0321/7609/files/DAC3_Series_Manual_Rev_B.pdf?9982830537634228604