Ready to start on my FR 125's
Hi All,
I have managed to track down some of the gloss coat Bud uses right here in little ol NZ. I am now itching to Enable my speakers.
I also have some C37 from many years back. Dave did you get around to coating the FR 125's with C37 before applying the pattern and the gloss coat?
BTW and a little off topic, a friend consulted a local speaker guy (well known in these parts for building with advanced composites in the past) what he recommended now for a cabinet material. He said the best stuff he has used is " Tri Board" which has a core of quite soft chipboard with outer layers of very hard compressed board (hard enough you cant easily dent it with the tip of a screw. This stuff is very very stiff and I built the carcass of my infinite baffle circa 8.5 litre FR 125 boxes with it. I am delighted with the sound.
Rgds Rob.
Hi All,
I have managed to track down some of the gloss coat Bud uses right here in little ol NZ. I am now itching to Enable my speakers.
I also have some C37 from many years back. Dave did you get around to coating the FR 125's with C37 before applying the pattern and the gloss coat?
BTW and a little off topic, a friend consulted a local speaker guy (well known in these parts for building with advanced composites in the past) what he recommended now for a cabinet material. He said the best stuff he has used is " Tri Board" which has a core of quite soft chipboard with outer layers of very hard compressed board (hard enough you cant easily dent it with the tip of a screw. This stuff is very very stiff and I built the carcass of my infinite baffle circa 8.5 litre FR 125 boxes with it. I am delighted with the sound.
Rgds Rob.
I have just completed the EnAbling of my FR 125'S and can't contain my enthusiasm for the improvement wrought. The gloss coat is barely dry but already the improvement in resolution, in the solidity and focus of stereo images and in the portrayal of sheer energy in a performance is something to behold (behear?).
The process was applied AFTER I applied and got used to the effect of two dilute coats of C37 over a period of 1 week or so; this in itself was a worthwhile improvement.
Thanks once again Bud.
Regards,
Rob.
The process was applied AFTER I applied and got used to the effect of two dilute coats of C37 over a period of 1 week or so; this in itself was a worthwhile improvement.
Thanks once again Bud.
Regards,
Rob.
Re Tri Board
Very interested in what you said about Tri-board Robert F. I,m a kiwi too and was familiar with this product. I have mentioned it in several different posts but it did not seem to raise any interest. As far as I know it is available over here.
jamikl
Very interested in what you said about Tri-board Robert F. I,m a kiwi too and was familiar with this product. I have mentioned it in several different posts but it did not seem to raise any interest. As far as I know it is available over here.
jamikl
Hi Rob,
Excellent news indeed.
As the gloss coat dries and you begin to use the driver more strongly it will cause some slight narrowing and tensing of the sound field. This will pass off after about 48 hours, if indeed it shows up, having been put onto a material that is already filling some of the spaces it would occupy.
What pattern set did you use, or did you make your own? I haven't had the opportunity to look at one of these drivers, so I would be interested in any pictures you might pass along, privately or publicly.
So, congratulations. Now, there is a whole island nation just awaiting your experienced touch...... let me know if you need any further patterns or examples, for domes, horns, ribbons and the like. I have thirty years of the glee you just experienced, packed away in this head of mine.
Bud
Excellent news indeed.
As the gloss coat dries and you begin to use the driver more strongly it will cause some slight narrowing and tensing of the sound field. This will pass off after about 48 hours, if indeed it shows up, having been put onto a material that is already filling some of the spaces it would occupy.
What pattern set did you use, or did you make your own? I haven't had the opportunity to look at one of these drivers, so I would be interested in any pictures you might pass along, privately or publicly.
So, congratulations. Now, there is a whole island nation just awaiting your experienced touch...... let me know if you need any further patterns or examples, for domes, horns, ribbons and the like. I have thirty years of the glee you just experienced, packed away in this head of mine.
Bud
There's a lot of people with the Fostex FE206 and 207 about. If anyone gets around to it a set of pattern templates for these will be well received by many.
OzMikeH,
Just waiting for some local soul, who has some, to let me have them for a few days. Don't actually need to put a pattern on them either. Though that is the proof of the pudding, so to speak.
I am sure it will happen, maybe even Planet 10 has some candidates?
Bud
Just waiting for some local soul, who has some, to let me have them for a few days. Don't actually need to put a pattern on them either. Though that is the proof of the pudding, so to speak.
I am sure it will happen, maybe even Planet 10 has some candidates?
Bud
BudP said:
I am doing a set of 207s for myself and a set to head to England. Scottmoose has 167s to do, and i'll be doing Nanook's brothers (if i can get them back long enuff).
I also have 167 & 206 here and a pr of Eminence 12LTAs that will go into Maria Chang. (and FE108es and neophones, and JX150s and FR125s )Robert can you post a picture of yours?)
Bud... the FR125s have phase plugs, as do bothe the sets of 207. Could you review patterning of phase plugs?
I'll also need suggesting for the FT17 horn tweeters.
dave
planet10 said:
You're keen! A dot of PVA and a half-dozen blocks is all I could imagine doing to those. I thought I was being over the top using an active XO for them.
for the outer edge of the little horn would notches in the plastic made with a scalpel be effective?
Hi,
Bud, I used the outer and inner ring templates you made for the hemp drivers you treated. With a small driver like these once you have done the outer rings you can free draw the inner ring using the outer rings as a guide they are so close. The thing I am really really tempted to EnABL given the massive standing wave problems inherent with electrostatic drivers are the diaphrams of my Acoustat 1+1's! If we can quiten these down by terminating the edge they will be stunning. I doubt I will use the gloss coat however...
Jamikl, the triboard is the real deal you wont believe how rigid it is compared to MDF or ply for that matter. It doesn't make that characteristic dead sound when knuckle rapped like mdf either but rather a much higher pitched short duration sound-yeh yeh not very scientific I know. I have a friend who built massive rear horn Tannoy monitor Gold speakers using this stuff and the cabinet is amazingly quiet for a speaker of this size.
Dave, I can try to take pics of the FR 125's but I used matt black Tamiya acrylic paint for the pattern and it is nearly impossible to see unless the light is just right (which is a mercy given the slightly messy job I have done particularly on the first cone!). I will give it a go and see what happens.
Rob
Bud, I used the outer and inner ring templates you made for the hemp drivers you treated. With a small driver like these once you have done the outer rings you can free draw the inner ring using the outer rings as a guide they are so close. The thing I am really really tempted to EnABL given the massive standing wave problems inherent with electrostatic drivers are the diaphrams of my Acoustat 1+1's! If we can quiten these down by terminating the edge they will be stunning. I doubt I will use the gloss coat however...
Jamikl, the triboard is the real deal you wont believe how rigid it is compared to MDF or ply for that matter. It doesn't make that characteristic dead sound when knuckle rapped like mdf either but rather a much higher pitched short duration sound-yeh yeh not very scientific I know. I have a friend who built massive rear horn Tannoy monitor Gold speakers using this stuff and the cabinet is amazingly quiet for a speaker of this size.
Dave, I can try to take pics of the FR 125's but I used matt black Tamiya acrylic paint for the pattern and it is nearly impossible to see unless the light is just right (which is a mercy given the slightly messy job I have done particularly on the first cone!). I will give it a go and see what happens.
Rob
Congratulations Rob,
Your experience may highly motivate other to try speaker treatment.
I'd be very thankful if you can post a picture. Try to make it without camera flash-use some lamp at an angle that will make the mods more visible...
Regards,
Vix
Your experience may highly motivate other to try speaker treatment.
I'd be very thankful if you can post a picture. Try to make it without camera flash-use some lamp at an angle that will make the mods more visible...
Regards,
Vix
Vix said:
Dave & I have discussed doping the clear or paints matched to cone colour for "stealthy" treatment *with some type of fluorescent material and applying under black light. Could make for some fun while listening too, - a dark room, a little "Umma Gumma" and a pair of LavaLites could take me back to the uh, 70's or something.
Careful with at Axe Eugene!
Bud, since you're following this thread, any suggestions or cautions on this idea?
* personally, I quite like the look of the brown paint on banana fibre cones of FE126E & FE127E - particularly well color coordinated with the finish on QC mahogany veneer on our Fonkens: - Dave have you got some recent pictures to post?
chrisb said:
Brown ones are drying as we speak. Pictures in the Fonkens later today.
Doing a stealth application is very hard because there is not enuff visual feedback. I did up Chris' wife's black FE127s and in the end switched to brown for the inner rings as i was making a mess....
I do have a black light and that experiment will go forward -- i'm just hoping the paint is naturally coloured in the UV part of the spectrum.
dave
Scottmoose said:Drool. Good combination. Like fine Syrah and walnuts.
Scott,
Yellow contrasts well with the blue drivers. White would be subtle but would work. Red & White and you'd be alluding to the Union Jack.
dave
planet10 said:
😀 I reckon the red & white might be a bit much, even for me (I even watched the Queen's Speech last Christmas. Although that might have had something to do with the fact that I was stuffed with goose and wine and couldn't be bothered to turn over to watch The Great Escape). White on its own sounds rather nice though. Time to get down to the model shop...
Vix said:
Soon. I have a fellow picking up a set next week, and he has volenteered to let his B200s be guinea pigs.
dave
Dave,
I have experience with two to date.
First was turned from solid wood and was shaped as an elongated hot air balloon. Required a pattern ring just before the first swelling of circumference from the portion that extends down onto the the center pole piece, after the shape had achieved it's maximum circumference and at the other end of this tubular section, just as it rounded into a flattened hemisphere. Finished with the usual six blocks in two rings, around a central circle with a dot of PVC in the center. Pretty light coating of gloss did the job here. One coat over the entire shape and a second coat from the top full ring over the PVA dot
The second was a metal or ceramic rocket nose cone shape.
Since this was also on a Lowther I placed the lower set of rigs directly across from the lower rings on the whizzer. This just at the top of the HF fingers that extend from the voice coil joint half way up the whizzer. The second ring was applied just as the face bevel rounded off to the tip hemisphere. Also finished with a six block, two ring, center dot with PVA, tip treatment. Required two coats of gloss over the whole phase plug and a third from the top ring to tip.
This hard smooth phase plug was far too slippery and would tip and distort the phase of the attached wave vis a vis the rest of the energy being emitted from the whizzer. Would appear that the gloss coat was actually slowing the wave front down as it traversed the phase plug surface.
This is in the set of drivers Jon Ver Halen has and intends to bring to the RMAF. The first phase plug was from Limmono's DX 4 and I believe he ended up removing it, after he had taken that driver and reverse mounted the original Azura horn on to load the backside of the drivers with.
So, just like the cones, you need a beginning ring to loft the energy out of it's normal laminar flow, within the boundary layer and other's to ease the diffraction at bends in the surface and a final ring to terminate the center of the dome tip.
Bud
I have experience with two to date.
First was turned from solid wood and was shaped as an elongated hot air balloon. Required a pattern ring just before the first swelling of circumference from the portion that extends down onto the the center pole piece, after the shape had achieved it's maximum circumference and at the other end of this tubular section, just as it rounded into a flattened hemisphere. Finished with the usual six blocks in two rings, around a central circle with a dot of PVC in the center. Pretty light coating of gloss did the job here. One coat over the entire shape and a second coat from the top full ring over the PVA dot
The second was a metal or ceramic rocket nose cone shape.
Since this was also on a Lowther I placed the lower set of rigs directly across from the lower rings on the whizzer. This just at the top of the HF fingers that extend from the voice coil joint half way up the whizzer. The second ring was applied just as the face bevel rounded off to the tip hemisphere. Also finished with a six block, two ring, center dot with PVA, tip treatment. Required two coats of gloss over the whole phase plug and a third from the top ring to tip.
This hard smooth phase plug was far too slippery and would tip and distort the phase of the attached wave vis a vis the rest of the energy being emitted from the whizzer. Would appear that the gloss coat was actually slowing the wave front down as it traversed the phase plug surface.
This is in the set of drivers Jon Ver Halen has and intends to bring to the RMAF. The first phase plug was from Limmono's DX 4 and I believe he ended up removing it, after he had taken that driver and reverse mounted the original Azura horn on to load the backside of the drivers with.
So, just like the cones, you need a beginning ring to loft the energy out of it's normal laminar flow, within the boundary layer and other's to ease the diffraction at bends in the surface and a final ring to terminate the center of the dome tip.
Bud
BudP said:
Here is a picture of the 207 plugs i'll need to treat.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
dave
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