duh
While that is certainly true, it would be an interesting proof of principal if doing so changes the timbre, etc. of said instrument.
Maybe even make an improvement, as I alluded to previously. I'm well aware of the "unique" tonal characteristics and qualities of musical instruments, thank you.
John L.
While that is certainly true, it would be an interesting proof of principal if doing so changes the timbre, etc. of said instrument.
Maybe even make an improvement, as I alluded to previously. I'm well aware of the "unique" tonal characteristics and qualities of musical instruments, thank you.
John L.
thanks for the many answers, i think i understand better now what you want to do.
wouldnt an easier cure for the problem be not to operate a driver above the frequency where standing waves can occur? if the cone is smaller than perhaps 1/2 wavelength or so, everything should move in unison due to accoustic small size.
wouldnt an easier cure for the problem be not to operate a driver above the frequency where standing waves can occur? if the cone is smaller than perhaps 1/2 wavelength or so, everything should move in unison due to accoustic small size.
soongsc said:
Ah sorry about that. i didnt want to start a fight about c37. it is obvious that painting a cone with varnish (is that the right word for Klarlack?) will change its stiffness. i mentioned it just for its esotheric kind of advertising. its just a good example for high end audio vendors selling normal ingredients with esotheric explanations, just like cables.
Having dealt with metal drivers under similar considerations and goals, I think the concept is valid both from a listening point of view and measurement point of view. I can't say that everyone can understand how to adjust the concept for precise application, but if one knows, then they know how to use it to get the performance they want. If you do more research, I'm sure you will come to similar conclusions.
I have not tried C37, but I think it may not necessarily be the best material for all applications. I hear that it has been used on some metal cones, but I have not enough data to warrent spending such money to try it.
I have not tried C37, but I think it may not necessarily be the best material for all applications. I hear that it has been used on some metal cones, but I have not enough data to warrent spending such money to try it.
Another EnABL convert here. Recieved my FE207's last week from Dave at Planet 10. The white on black pattern is beautiful in the flesh, and the workmanship is awsome. I am reviewing the sound in conjuction with my new cabinets on the Curvy Chang thread, so wont go into detail here, except to say my views are similar to others that have reviewed the effect here, and unfortenatly once listened to I now find other speakers (ie my FE166's untreated) are almost unlistenable to, I used the terminology "shrieking Banshee's" which may seem rather strong language, but is in IMHO (and to my ears) an apt metaphor. It is hard to describe the sound of EnABLing as it dosn't realy have a sound but a lack of one. Even listening to some of my Beloved's CD's (she has taken over my listening sessions when she's been in the house), I am finding it hard not to enjoy music I wouldn't usualy listen to, and finding it easier to listen to music I love.
MaVo,
You are asking good questions. The pattern works across the frequency bandwidth but there does appear to be one frequency where the pistonic activity does work, as the first order approximations it is based upon, says it should. EnABL just makes all of the other frequencies also behave as well, or better. So, yes there is one tiny area where an untreated driver can sound as good as the EnABL'd driver does everywhere.
Chrisb,
EV TH 350 Absolutely no detectable difference between treated and untreated, in two systems. Does begin to shine a light upon why horns are beloved by so many, even with their frequency band width limited drawbacks.
The sound character of a treated horn does not become that of an EnABL'd driver when EnABL'd. The horns inherent clarity just becomes more intense. So, apparently, horns with properly designed compression drivers are the equivalent of an EnABL'd driver, due to the CD imposing a lack of same frequency ringing just as EnABL does.
Of course it is kind of fun that a Planet 10 Fe 127eN, in a Fonken box, is the sonic equal of a horn system as elaborate as Romy the Cat's. Not it's equal in shear volume of sound, or size, but in the display of musical values, rather than audio values.
Bud
You are asking good questions. The pattern works across the frequency bandwidth but there does appear to be one frequency where the pistonic activity does work, as the first order approximations it is based upon, says it should. EnABL just makes all of the other frequencies also behave as well, or better. So, yes there is one tiny area where an untreated driver can sound as good as the EnABL'd driver does everywhere.
Chrisb,
EV TH 350 Absolutely no detectable difference between treated and untreated, in two systems. Does begin to shine a light upon why horns are beloved by so many, even with their frequency band width limited drawbacks.
The sound character of a treated horn does not become that of an EnABL'd driver when EnABL'd. The horns inherent clarity just becomes more intense. So, apparently, horns with properly designed compression drivers are the equivalent of an EnABL'd driver, due to the CD imposing a lack of same frequency ringing just as EnABL does.
Of course it is kind of fun that a Planet 10 Fe 127eN, in a Fonken box, is the sonic equal of a horn system as elaborate as Romy the Cat's. Not it's equal in shear volume of sound, or size, but in the display of musical values, rather than audio values.
Bud
Gee, does that explain why the deca-kilo buck reference system on display at the local hi-end shop (AudioNote TT2/ zoomy AudioNote phono/pre / Classe or some such SS power and the absolutely stunningly gorgeous Sonus Faber Stradivari) leave me somewhat underwhelmed?
My entire current system, including a recent return trip to Washington state, cost less than the sales tax on the front end of this quite forgettable (except for the Sonus Fabers) system? I honestly was emotionally moved only by the speakers. For me they sound better than anything I've heard in the store this decade, and did I mention they're absofugginlutely beautiful? in a architecturally minimalist nouveau- Italianate sort of fashion, that is (but way too many drivers....
)
My entire current system, including a recent return trip to Washington state, cost less than the sales tax on the front end of this quite forgettable (except for the Sonus Fabers) system? I honestly was emotionally moved only by the speakers. For me they sound better than anything I've heard in the store this decade, and did I mention they're absofugginlutely beautiful? in a architecturally minimalist nouveau- Italianate sort of fashion, that is (but way too many drivers....
)
Re: which one...
I using Heil AMT 1's and doing anything to the pleats is a non-starter!
I do have some ideas about doing some EnABL to the AMT baffle tho- 
. I've also considered mounting them in a small CD Waveguide (front and back sides) with EnABL on the horns - but I have fears that the diaphragm would melt! 
Now that I can get replacement diaphragms I might get back around to playing with that idea for an OB project that I'm drawing up. 
auplater said:I'd hate to think about treating a Heil amt, either...all those little pleats and folds to get into...
I using Heil AMT 1's and doing anything to the pleats is a non-starter!
I do have some ideas about doing some EnABL to the AMT baffle tho- . I've also considered mounting them in a small CD Waveguide (front and back sides) with EnABL on the horns - but I have fears that the diaphragm would melt! Now that I can get replacement diaphragms I might get back around to playing with that idea for an OB project that I'm drawing up. Doesn't the tapered stack of magnet & spacer plates already form a sort of dipole horn load for the AMT diaphragm? It would be interesting to see how low the response could be taken with a well engineered horn - say a bi-radial flare a la JBL cinema monitor designs.
of course that's a silly idea - even if it worked, the WAF factor would be, ahem, immeasurably teeny
I'd long thought about a thin layer of PSA felt to the inside "walls" of the stack, as well as filling the pocket at top and bottom of the plastic frame with felt or cork.
of course that's a silly idea - even if it worked, the WAF factor would be, ahem, immeasurably teeny
I'd long thought about a thin layer of PSA felt to the inside "walls" of the stack, as well as filling the pocket at top and bottom of the plastic frame with felt or cork.
chrisb said:
Hi Chris -
"Sort of" being the key descriptor in regards to being a dipole horn. I haven't checked the angles vs. math to see if it's a horn or simply the result of the magnet design. I'm thinking that the area where the magnet assembly meets the plastic frame is a target for work as well as the areas that you mention around the stack. I'm not interested in having them play any lower F's because they just don't have the mass to get that done - but cleaning up the area around 3.5 kHz would help things out.
c2cthomas said:
Hi Chris -
"Sort of" being the key descriptor in regards to being a dipole horn. I haven't checked the angles vs. math to see if it's a horn or simply the result of the magnet design. I'm thinking that the area where the magnet assembly meets the plastic frame is a target for work as well as the areas that you mention around the stack. I'm not interested in having them play any lower F's because they just don't have the mass to get that done - but cleaning up the area around 3.5 kHz would help things out.
Well then, let's use potential for "waveguide" - although that'll certainly cause some shudders as well. I'd think one thing's fairly certain, over the operating range these drivers can achieve (say circa 2000Hz up) the laminated stack will have some acoustic affect, and most particularly the cavities and lips formed by the boundaries of the plastic frame could be improved upon.
I'm not sure about mass being a prerequisite for wide bandwidth reproduction - "full range" ESL and magnetic planar as well as ribbon designs must surely have lower mass per area than a conventional cone of virtually any material, and yet are certainly capable of wide frequency response, if not always at the efficiency level of the AMT.
Hi Chris,
I don't want to stray too far OT about the AMT's. EnABL for the baffle / waveguide in terms of BudP's work. If we start discussing how to tweak the AMT or make a DIY version (something I've always had in mind) then we might want to start a new thread.
BTW BudP - Congrats on being at 1000 posting to your thread!!! Do I win a door prize!!!
(Other than the door hitting my rear on the way out!)
I don't want to stray too far OT about the AMT's. EnABL for the baffle / waveguide in terms of BudP's work. If we start discussing how to tweak the AMT or make a DIY version (something I've always had in mind) then we might want to start a new thread.
BTW BudP - Congrats on being at 1000 posting to your thread!!! Do I win a door prize!!!
(Other than the door hitting my rear on the way out!)- Status
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