Your current amp 😉
Run it at the 1v setting. You won't know what it has until you redline it.
It's like driving a Corvette exclusively during rush hour then wanting a Bugatti for more top speed...you have to give the Corvette some track before you really know what you're working with.
You should easily be able achieve over 125db at 1 meter with the XLS2502.
Run it at the 1v setting. You won't know what it has until you redline it.
It's like driving a Corvette exclusively during rush hour then wanting a Bugatti for more top speed...you have to give the Corvette some track before you really know what you're working with.
You should easily be able achieve over 125db at 1 meter with the XLS2502.
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you should be able to add boost until you clip either the DSP output or the amp so if the 1v setting is not too noisy run on this setting to avoid DSP clipping. No point in getting a more powerful amp if your not even clipping the current one.
I returned the 2502. I am using a 1000w HT amp atm.
Ernie, I used to track a corvette, so I understand your analogy. I never passed a Bugatti, but I passed my fair share of Ferraris and Porsches. 🙂 BTW, I was hitting 125db at 3+ meters with the 2502 at all sub frequencies. It just sounded like a turd. 🙂
Ok, I will try this. I didnt know if there was some nuance to rca vs balanced and the setting..didnt want to hurt my amp.
Ernie, I used to track a corvette, so I understand your analogy. I never passed a Bugatti, but I passed my fair share of Ferraris and Porsches. 🙂 BTW, I was hitting 125db at 3+ meters with the 2502 at all sub frequencies. It just sounded like a turd. 🙂
Ok, I will try this. I didnt know if there was some nuance to rca vs balanced and the setting..didnt want to hurt my amp.
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Ok so the 1v setting helped a lot. I am back to listening levels. Still no clipping.
Would the additional headroom (of about 4000watts!) on a Crown 6002 provide any sonic benefit w.r.t. accuracy??
Would the additional headroom (of about 4000watts!) on a Crown 6002 provide any sonic benefit w.r.t. accuracy??
You returned the XLS as fast as you race 🙂
Won't change a thing if you're happy with the current spl levels. Would've been interesting to compare the 2502 to your HT amp.
You would gain roughly 6db of output potential over the 1000w amp. That's a noticeable amount when the occasion comes up.
Won't change a thing if you're happy with the current spl levels. Would've been interesting to compare the 2502 to your HT amp.
You would gain roughly 6db of output potential over the 1000w amp. That's a noticeable amount when the occasion comes up.
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Yah I hear guitar center filed chapter 11 so I returned it the next day before they stopped taking returns.
Thats really surprising. So in my HT/audiophile class A/B world, if a speaker is struggling a bit, you give it more power with an amp that has big caps and transformers/headroom, and it generally (always?!) makes the speaker sound a lot better.. But in the D class pro audio world, this logic does not follow suit? Is it something about the way a d class amp delivers power, or because its a big sub?
Thats really surprising. So in my HT/audiophile class A/B world, if a speaker is struggling a bit, you give it more power with an amp that has big caps and transformers/headroom, and it generally (always?!) makes the speaker sound a lot better.. But in the D class pro audio world, this logic does not follow suit? Is it something about the way a d class amp delivers power, or because its a big sub?
Subw00er, class D typically uses switched power supplies. They need smaller caps than a linear power supply, because they work at much higher frequencies than 50/60Hz and may employ feedback to keep the voltage constant under load, further limiting the need for large caps.
The old iron core transformer power supplies don’t have any mechanism to limit the current that is delivered - you can exceed its rating by a factor of 10 and nothing cares, as long as long term heating is not too much. Switch mode supplies have hard limits (and sometimes soft limits). The problem with them is that it’s sickeningly easy to hit those limits. In most “prosumer” switchmode amps, that limit is set to the AVERAGE current demand, and happens in milliseconds. But at subwoofer frequencies you could require up to three times that amount (do the match, it’s true, there is a factor of Pi), for many milliseconds at a time. The cheaper amps will limit, and put out less power at low frequencies. The expensive touring grade amps won’t, and that’s why they’re expensive. The supplies are beefy enough to handle these 3X peaks safely without limiting early or exploding. They do have longer term limits, but the time constants are long enough to reproduce a kick drum at full power clipping. At infra-sonic frequencies you may still run into theses limits even with the best amps, but it will be better than with a cheap Crown.
Thanks Vac and Wg. WG, can you define cheap? I've been looking at the Crown XTI 6002 (~$2K)
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Something like this. $1000.
QSC RMX4050a - ProAudioStar
CREST AUDIO PRO 9200 PROFESSIONAL POWER AMPLIFIER W/POWER CORD #6672 (ONE) | eBay
Lot of good amps to be had with sound companies closing due to covid.
QSC RMX4050a - ProAudioStar
CREST AUDIO PRO 9200 PROFESSIONAL POWER AMPLIFIER W/POWER CORD #6672 (ONE) | eBay
Lot of good amps to be had with sound companies closing due to covid.
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Ok, I'll take a look again. Do you guys know off hand if any of them have 12v based remote turn on (not contact closure/switch) or signal based turn on capability?
Also, are the newer macrotech amps any good like this one? Used Crown Macro-tech 9000i Power Amp | Guitar Center
Also, are the newer macrotech amps any good like this one? Used Crown Macro-tech 9000i Power Amp | Guitar Center
That's a stout amp. It will easily get the job done.
There might be some pro a/v install amps with 12v triggers but I'm not aware of any off hand.
There might be some pro a/v install amps with 12v triggers but I'm not aware of any off hand.
That’s a mid-priced amp. Cheap = XLS.
The lower power Xti’s were terrible. Didn’t even come close to full power at 20 Hz. There were serious complaints about them on one of the HT forums. The 4002 and 6002 were the only ones worth buying at all.
If the speaker appears to be struggling, and a larger amp fixes that, then the problem was not the speaker. Chances are the amplifier was running out of power.
Bigger amps don't magically make speakers act more linearly.
The thing to remember here is you've got a top-end 21" PA subwoofer. If you want to be able to run it up to its limits, you're going to need a big amplifier.
In terms of optimising sound quality, any decent solid-state amplifier will do the job until you reach the limits.
My suggestion would be this: instead of spending over a thousand dollars on a new amplifier, spend around $100 and buy a Behringer ECM8000, a UMC202HD, an XLR cable and a mic stand. Do some acoustic measurements, and figure out what's actually wrong with your setup.
Swapping one half-decent amp for another is not the answer here.
Chris
PS - The Crown MA9000i above is an excellent amplifier, but fan noise will be a problem for you.
And you can’t just turn the fan off in those newer Marco tech amps either. They run pretty warm just idling. It’s the nature of the BCA class D circuit - which makes them more blowout proof than the cheap superlight ones.
They do indeed. You might (might) get away with swapping for silent fans, but I'd be hesitant to ruin a touring-grade amp in such a way. Better would be to put the amp in a different room and run wires through the wall.
Chris
Chris
Finally tested a pair with a bridged PLD4.5..... lots of rumble but no punch. Will break them in and see what happens.
