I have seen that Decware was selling their Z-DAC which has inside exactly the same DAC board as one of earliest Weiliang's DACs for $995. Look at the picture on this page. I don't know who is real designer of this DAC but I pretty sure that board is 100% identical because I own that DAC board which sounds quite good for me. The only difference is the color of the board.
Hi Valeri,
I hope you enjoyed your holiday, definitely looking forward for your result with transformers.
Well, that's the life, half of it has been already sorted just waiting for ELNAs.
Dave: re. USB card, it's real shame weiliang didn't implemented 10 PIN version which is more common and with better specs than 7 PIN, so if I'm you I would be looking for XMOS version instead of CM6631
andyjevans: X2A is with AK4113 receiver (older version) X2B is with AK4118 receiver (newer version)
Nosian: I got similar experience also with 2xWM8741, really nice sounding DACs compare to standard (branded products) with even higher price tag, it's not high-end but definitely great products in terms of value. I was also looking for top Linn players especially those with Lundhal output stage, maybe one day
I hope you enjoyed your holiday, definitely looking forward for your result with transformers.
Well, that's the life, half of it has been already sorted just waiting for ELNAs.
Dave: re. USB card, it's real shame weiliang didn't implemented 10 PIN version which is more common and with better specs than 7 PIN, so if I'm you I would be looking for XMOS version instead of CM6631
andyjevans: X2A is with AK4113 receiver (older version) X2B is with AK4118 receiver (newer version)
Nosian: I got similar experience also with 2xWM8741, really nice sounding DACs compare to standard (branded products) with even higher price tag, it's not high-end but definitely great products in terms of value. I was also looking for top Linn players especially those with Lundhal output stage, maybe one day
This thread is becoming hot!
Hi Dave, thanks a lot for the pictures of your board!
to linuxworks: thanks for your comments, just a few thoughts in reply:
* ES9018 DAC of WeiLiang uses 4 layer PCB, so he's not restricted to 2 layer.
* long trace lengths: Agree, better to have regulators near to the load, but this dual AK4399 DAC board is not that big, power supply is always nearby. On this board the max length is 6cm for analog supply.
* psu: The DAC uses only 1 trafo. It has separate windings for analog output stage, very common in audio gear I think. Good practice, because it prevents noise from the other circuits to enter/influence analog stage. Then it has another 2 windings, one for 5V supply of DACs and one for 5V micro processor and 3.3V receiver.
I don't see that one trafo with separate windings introduces more hum and noise either. On the contrary: separation also means less current per psu, each has it's own big capacitor, better regulation in the end. I think, if you want to do it the 'elegant' way, the board leaves not much to modify, because design becomes very inflexible (no fun for a diy-er).
* grounding: I don't know how analog and digital ground is layed out on this board, must have a look. In general it's good practice to isolate analog and digital ground planes, but: For example, the AK4113 receiver needs analog and digital ground to be connected to the same ground plane. So it violates the general rule, but the design is just right according to manufacturers' recommendations.
* about 'thrown over the wall': True, it's better to have more insight/influence in the design of the board, but lets compare it to another diy approach: modifying existing commercial cd-players or dacs, aren't they thrown over the wall either? You just have to trust those products as well to be tested and robust. And I don't think they are free of weak points in design either. Yet it can be very rewarding to have a look at the design and improve (and fun too!).
Hi Dave, thanks a lot for the pictures of your board!
to linuxworks: thanks for your comments, just a few thoughts in reply:
* ES9018 DAC of WeiLiang uses 4 layer PCB, so he's not restricted to 2 layer.
* long trace lengths: Agree, better to have regulators near to the load, but this dual AK4399 DAC board is not that big, power supply is always nearby. On this board the max length is 6cm for analog supply.
* psu: The DAC uses only 1 trafo. It has separate windings for analog output stage, very common in audio gear I think. Good practice, because it prevents noise from the other circuits to enter/influence analog stage. Then it has another 2 windings, one for 5V supply of DACs and one for 5V micro processor and 3.3V receiver.
I don't see that one trafo with separate windings introduces more hum and noise either. On the contrary: separation also means less current per psu, each has it's own big capacitor, better regulation in the end. I think, if you want to do it the 'elegant' way, the board leaves not much to modify, because design becomes very inflexible (no fun for a diy-er).
* grounding: I don't know how analog and digital ground is layed out on this board, must have a look. In general it's good practice to isolate analog and digital ground planes, but: For example, the AK4113 receiver needs analog and digital ground to be connected to the same ground plane. So it violates the general rule, but the design is just right according to manufacturers' recommendations.
* about 'thrown over the wall': True, it's better to have more insight/influence in the design of the board, but lets compare it to another diy approach: modifying existing commercial cd-players or dacs, aren't they thrown over the wall either? You just have to trust those products as well to be tested and robust. And I don't think they are free of weak points in design either. Yet it can be very rewarding to have a look at the design and improve (and fun too!).
new AKM premium dac
Hi everyone, in case you didn't already know: AKM has made another DAC, the AK4490.
To all dear Chinese designers: we would like to see a nice design with this new dac IC soon...thank you
The AK4490 has a new SCF (switched capacitor filter) design, higher oversampling (256x), up to 768kHz sampling rate, more selectable filter modes for PCM and DSD and better THD+N (-112 dB vs -105 dB).
A nice IC to implement DSD as well in the design...
Just have a look at the datasheet! Regards,
NinoSimona
Hi everyone, in case you didn't already know: AKM has made another DAC, the AK4490.
To all dear Chinese designers: we would like to see a nice design with this new dac IC soon...thank you
The AK4490 has a new SCF (switched capacitor filter) design, higher oversampling (256x), up to 768kHz sampling rate, more selectable filter modes for PCM and DSD and better THD+N (-112 dB vs -105 dB).
A nice IC to implement DSD as well in the design...
Just have a look at the datasheet! Regards,
NinoSimona
I believe there are better boards on the market like L.K.S audio and their implementation of ES9018 but it also cost +$500, we can go even further with Prometheus (ESS participated on this) project and separate supply voltage stage, how about Chinese dual ES9018 version here (I was considering this for next project) and finally dual ES9018 with discrete output stage here , unfortunately it never ends and we can adding more and more...
They have not managed still to exploit the potential which has AK4396.. do not know how to implement XMOS, but it still being used wherever they can..
I think they follow what is most refers in the forums, and then make something.. at the end you have a bunch of devices with XMOS and AK4399 that do not support DSD, with a completely crappy performed power supply, the components of suspicious origin..
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Hi Vulejov I was thinking of adding this xmos to my dac but im worried about it not working and giving problems that you and others are having.
I also see this on Internet.
Volumio.org/.../problems-with-weiliang-xmos-dual-ak4399-dact1137.html
Hi volejov
I think you made it clear already what your opinion is about Chinese designs / designers / products.
This thread is about a particular design coming from China, which you don't even own yourself, so what's the use of repeating your statement?
Even when Chinese designers are reading this forum to collect what is mostly referred, then they surely must have noticed your posts...
For me it's not very helpful, I have a taste for sweetness rather than sourness.
By the way: my message to the Chinese designers wasn't without irony, hence the italics
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As far as I understood the Asynchronous XMOS USB module compatible for AK4399 / DAC7 / ES9018 by Weiliang works fine under Windows and allows playback of DSD with Foobar. Seller minishow has sold 76 pieces and still keeps overall 99,9% positive feedbacks. There are no complains about this module. Moreover feedbacks are very good. I am going to order this one today or tomorrow.
I saw that XMOS board from minishow. I have a Mac Mini so I'm assuming it works with that - may need a powered USB hub judging from some posts.
I don't know if this XMOS board is what min9988 is packaging with his DAC. It may be - his is 7 pin. His board has the AK4118 instead of minishow's AK4113. Is there an appreciable difference?
I don't know if this XMOS board is what min9988 is packaging with his DAC. It may be - his is 7 pin. His board has the AK4118 instead of minishow's AK4113. Is there an appreciable difference?
That's interesting I would be up for trying a AK4490 dac.
It would be nice if it upscaled the incoming signal as well like the behringer src2496 did.
It used a AK4396 CS8420 upscaling chip it upscaled my digital input signal up to 96/24 bit.
Saying that the Dac I've got now still sounds better but I can only imagine how it would sound with up scaling because it made a huge difference to the behringer.
This XMOS board do not have DSD support.. DAC7 do not have DSD support.. you did not understood something..
Chinese sellers just play this game.. as long as everyone write what they can not understand or do not know, they will continue to have a good advertisement for their junk..
On the other hand, situation is nothing better with comercial devices, I think it's a lot worse..
You are probably correct I didn't understand something that's why I asked you,you seem to have a lot of knowledge.
I have never downloaded music before or played music this way I've always used CDs but I would like to try.
I will probably download it onto my iPad or my sons laptop which uses windows 8 to try.
I have owned a marantz SA7001 cd player a musical fidelity A3.5 cd player and a shanling T200.
I would say the dac I have got now is as good or better than these cd players that got good reviews so I can't see how you can call it chineese rubbish.
These dacs cost less than I have paid for leads in the past.
I have never downloaded music before or played music this way I've always used CDs but I would like to try.
I will probably download it onto my iPad or my sons laptop which uses windows 8 to try.
I have owned a marantz SA7001 cd player a musical fidelity A3.5 cd player and a shanling T200.
I would say the dac I have got now is as good or better than these cd players that got good reviews so I can't see how you can call it chineese rubbish.
These dacs cost less than I have paid for leads in the past.
vulejov: I've asked same question on previous page, what is than better? what is so good you won't call it Chinese or other junk? of course in similar price league, have you ever seen Chinese diy forum? do you know what these guys are capable of or will you just stick to ebay sellers and put all Chinese into same bag. Until someone show me better sounding DAC able to receive 24/192 through toslink in same or similar price I won't accept these are junk products, not perfect or high-end but for such money I won't complain
It's always easier saying how bad it is but much harder how to fix or improve it...
Dave: I didn't bother with USB card as I wouldn't use it, rather use network or USB/HDD player with optical out which you can use instead of PC, of course there is nothing wrong with USB transport from PC just not so much practical especially if you have your stereo elsewhere
It's always easier saying how bad it is but much harder how to fix or improve it...
Dave: I didn't bother with USB card as I wouldn't use it, rather use network or USB/HDD player with optical out which you can use instead of PC, of course there is nothing wrong with USB transport from PC just not so much practical especially if you have your stereo elsewhere
I have written somewhere else, search for schematic.. opamp output on AK4396/99 DACs can play much better, rebuild is more than a simple..
Another thing, 20$ board with AK4396 will work same as 100$ AK4399..
Finally, the most important.. toslink does not support 24/192..
we are in 2014 right? or shall I return my DAC because it's lying to me?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
images upload
do you have link for that thread please? I can't find it, or I'm blind
, thank you.
I think vulejov is referring to this post: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/239441-xmos-ak4399-single-board-14.html#post3929221
This modification splits the function of the output stage in a passive filter and a differential amplifier (the opamp).
-3dB point of the filter is 16 kHz... Might as well transfer your whole music collection to mp3...
Luckily the final design has -3dB point of 41 kHz... But, if you pick the right values for the passive filter, it could work, because of the SCF outputs, the AK43xx series wouldn't need extensive filtering.
This modification splits the function of the output stage in a passive filter and a differential amplifier (the opamp).
-3dB point of the filter is 16 kHz... Might as well transfer your whole music collection to mp3...
Luckily the final design has -3dB point of 41 kHz... But, if you pick the right values for the passive filter, it could work, because of the SCF outputs, the AK43xx series wouldn't need extensive filtering.
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