Have a look at a P3A PCB from ESP as it's a great example..... you can mount it several ways.
The same as suggested above as a sandwich, ala AKSA (ledge heatsink)
The devices under the PCB ala P3A or P101 (flat heatsink)
The devices at right angles to the PCB as per the HRII..... would require a scored section that can be removed (flat heatsink)
That way all camps are catered for. It was and is a very clever layout from Rod.
The same as suggested above as a sandwich, ala AKSA (ledge heatsink)
The devices under the PCB ala P3A or P101 (flat heatsink)
The devices at right angles to the PCB as per the HRII..... would require a scored section that can be removed (flat heatsink)
That way all camps are catered for. It was and is a very clever layout from Rod.
The trick is, the power resistors go under the board, and therefor the area under the output transistors is mostly used up.
The only other option is like mentioned above to go back 2 or 3 layouts to where the outputs were on the edge, and then have an area that is scored but not cut. so you can also mount them flat... although that would be a comparatively more expensive excersize due to the unused board.
The only other option is like mentioned above to go back 2 or 3 layouts to where the outputs were on the edge, and then have an area that is scored but not cut. so you can also mount them flat... although that would be a comparatively more expensive excersize due to the unused board.
Re: Votes please folks...will do, gladly, what forum decide
Dear Carlos,
Ehem.....not to disappoint you, I indeed vote for the non-bracket installation. Why? It allows a bit more flexibility with non-custom heatsinks. But I don't feel strongly about this, and besides, Nordic already has his board design. Your point about increased capacitance caused by PCB installation is something I have not even thought about. What effect does it have on performance/sound?
Supporting the PC board at all four corners is good and nylon spacers are easy and cheap (at least States side). I believe heavy aluminum angle stock for the bracket will be harder to find for DIY crowd.
Francois
P.S. I already have heat sinks that are 300 x 135 mm with fins in the 300 mm direction.
I bought them here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=170185437891&Category=31489&_trksid=p3907.m29)
Plans were to install them vertically with both fins facing each other and enclosed to form a "chimney" (with fan) in a columnar enclosure. With the "AKSA" bracket mounting method the board will be sticking out, away from the column.
destroyer X said:
Dear Carlos,
Ehem.....not to disappoint you, I indeed vote for the non-bracket installation. Why? It allows a bit more flexibility with non-custom heatsinks. But I don't feel strongly about this, and besides, Nordic already has his board design. Your point about increased capacitance caused by PCB installation is something I have not even thought about. What effect does it have on performance/sound?
Supporting the PC board at all four corners is good and nylon spacers are easy and cheap (at least States side). I believe heavy aluminum angle stock for the bracket will be harder to find for DIY crowd.
Francois
P.S. I already have heat sinks that are 300 x 135 mm with fins in the 300 mm direction.
I bought them here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=170185437891&Category=31489&_trksid=p3907.m29)
Plans were to install them vertically with both fins facing each other and enclosed to form a "chimney" (with fan) in a columnar enclosure. With the "AKSA" bracket mounting method the board will be sticking out, away from the column.
The bigger board, the way i like, cost more, force you to have adaptor to flat
heatsinks, turn hard to install transistor under the board to the ones like the way (i think them awfull there..but this is personnal, subjective).
Also need a "L" shape adaptor, or "T" shape adaptor.... also create the problem to use something between the transistors and the main heatsink.... do not matter how you sand, the way you use thermal compound..will be always worse to thermal transference compared to transistors directly assembled into the board.
If construction was made the way i use in my home...SMS style... building from left to rigth, over copper lines.... under the board nothing there..only fiberglass that can be glued into the heatsink.... this way transistors going directly to the heatsink looks great because board will not be attached over 4 feet.... 4 insulators, screws, and those things.
The construction made into the traditional way do not allow us to put board very close the heatsink...and you can avoid too much capacitance effect no using ground into the heatsinks...so...the effect is reduced...less coupling too througth the heatsink.
I would like to you, dear friend Rabbitz, to place a clear vote, also Stuey to place a clear vote...because if you do not react, clearly against my idea, you may face a board into my style, something that can be worse, or annoying to you ALL.
So..vote, react against if you want...i do not mind too much, if this will be a democratic consequence of votes...i can accept, as this one will be for free, for forum.....not the Precision II..that one will not be cheap, not Democratic, MY BABY... i have already sold one with a value that paid my job...so...i can survive, without losses of money, even not selling Precision II...you know... research costs and parts already paid into the first order i had here... a rich guy from the Government... and want my dirty style construction to be the first to have them....and want my signature over aluminium panel painted with Varnish over to keep the signature there.
Please.... place your opinions...Stuey seems that vote to "L" adaptor style.... Rabbitz seems to vote to the Rodd Elliot style, but not clear that subject.
Dave Rice may change his vote... seems to me he is thinking into the heat transference (worse in my solution if made adaptor in your own home..metal never flat enougth).
I continue to prefer the way.... Charm, Elegance, Class... this is what i feel about... and made, or used, by the King of Audio...in my point of view, Doctor in audio, Hugh Dean.... producer of "the excelence" in audio amplifiers...but i am advancing....my distance to him is turning smaller and smaller...one day i will be at same level and them we gonna have a cup of Cappucicno because i really love that guy.... my main teacher...the example to be followed..someone to associate to.. a friend to be keept, and a good conversation to have because we can SPY his ideas.
ahahahahaha.
Vote folks, please, do not be shy..... this will be make Nordic move even more fast and more happy..because he wants his style..awfull transistors falling down from the board...aaaagh..awfull!!!
regards,
Carlos
heatsinks, turn hard to install transistor under the board to the ones like the way (i think them awfull there..but this is personnal, subjective).
Also need a "L" shape adaptor, or "T" shape adaptor.... also create the problem to use something between the transistors and the main heatsink.... do not matter how you sand, the way you use thermal compound..will be always worse to thermal transference compared to transistors directly assembled into the board.
If construction was made the way i use in my home...SMS style... building from left to rigth, over copper lines.... under the board nothing there..only fiberglass that can be glued into the heatsink.... this way transistors going directly to the heatsink looks great because board will not be attached over 4 feet.... 4 insulators, screws, and those things.
The construction made into the traditional way do not allow us to put board very close the heatsink...and you can avoid too much capacitance effect no using ground into the heatsinks...so...the effect is reduced...less coupling too througth the heatsink.
I would like to you, dear friend Rabbitz, to place a clear vote, also Stuey to place a clear vote...because if you do not react, clearly against my idea, you may face a board into my style, something that can be worse, or annoying to you ALL.
So..vote, react against if you want...i do not mind too much, if this will be a democratic consequence of votes...i can accept, as this one will be for free, for forum.....not the Precision II..that one will not be cheap, not Democratic, MY BABY... i have already sold one with a value that paid my job...so...i can survive, without losses of money, even not selling Precision II...you know... research costs and parts already paid into the first order i had here... a rich guy from the Government... and want my dirty style construction to be the first to have them....and want my signature over aluminium panel painted with Varnish over to keep the signature there.
Please.... place your opinions...Stuey seems that vote to "L" adaptor style.... Rabbitz seems to vote to the Rodd Elliot style, but not clear that subject.
Dave Rice may change his vote... seems to me he is thinking into the heat transference (worse in my solution if made adaptor in your own home..metal never flat enougth).
I continue to prefer the way.... Charm, Elegance, Class... this is what i feel about... and made, or used, by the King of Audio...in my point of view, Doctor in audio, Hugh Dean.... producer of "the excelence" in audio amplifiers...but i am advancing....my distance to him is turning smaller and smaller...one day i will be at same level and them we gonna have a cup of Cappucicno because i really love that guy.... my main teacher...the example to be followed..someone to associate to.. a friend to be keept, and a good conversation to have because we can SPY his ideas.
ahahahahaha.
Vote folks, please, do not be shy..... this will be make Nordic move even more fast and more happy..because he wants his style..awfull transistors falling down from the board...aaaagh..awfull!!!
regards,
Carlos
Power resistors under the board?
Would that not cause heat to build up if the board is installed horizontally?
Francois
Nordic said:
Would that not cause heat to build up if the board is installed horizontally?
Francois
I cannot understand those things...also Hugh made something awfull
....and he insists on that.... transistor assembled one atop the other..the VBE multiplier transistor is lay down over the output...terrible!
Maybe his Mark...his sign, his symbol...maybe.... but terrible!
Also Rodd installed transistors under the board...terrible!
It is impressive to me, so good guys with so bad decisions related those details.
Sorry Rabbitz, i cannot see nothing good on that aproach to put transistors under the board... seems to me "error"... the one made boards and them realised that had not the correct place for power transistors and found a way to install them there.
Rodd Elliot is a great guy.... help us a lot...one of the Masters we have..very important guy...but even this way..the solution.
This explains why God made us with defects...even clever folks produces errors (in my point of view those things looks defects, not effects)
regards,
Carlos
....and he insists on that.... transistor assembled one atop the other..the VBE multiplier transistor is lay down over the output...terrible!
Maybe his Mark...his sign, his symbol...maybe.... but terrible!
Also Rodd installed transistors under the board...terrible!
It is impressive to me, so good guys with so bad decisions related those details.
Sorry Rabbitz, i cannot see nothing good on that aproach to put transistors under the board... seems to me "error"... the one made boards and them realised that had not the correct place for power transistors and found a way to install them there.
Rodd Elliot is a great guy.... help us a lot...one of the Masters we have..very important guy...but even this way..the solution.
This explains why God made us with defects...even clever folks produces errors (in my point of view those things looks defects, not effects)
regards,
Carlos
Thanks Stuey!
I didn't realize there was such a thing as a "flanged heatsink". I learn something everyday.
🙂
I didn't realize there was such a thing as a "flanged heatsink". I learn something everyday.
🙂
François vote was registered..because clear.
Dave Rice can change his vote if he wants.
Also Rabbitz can vote if he wants
Stuey can confirm what he prefers.
Do that clearly folks.... the board will be made to group buy..so..to you to have them.... SO.... take care of that subject because belongs to you.
Of course... alike a Captain i have to tell the North....but if passengers of this Ship to happyness feel sick sea because the ocean has a lot of waves.... the Captain must change the North.
If the board was prepared and no one interested on it.... will be waste of time to me, and to Nordic.... so... tell what you think about.
Let's go boys!
regards,
Carlos
Dave Rice can change his vote if he wants.
Also Rabbitz can vote if he wants
Stuey can confirm what he prefers.
Do that clearly folks.... the board will be made to group buy..so..to you to have them.... SO.... take care of that subject because belongs to you.
Of course... alike a Captain i have to tell the North....but if passengers of this Ship to happyness feel sick sea because the ocean has a lot of waves.... the Captain must change the North.
If the board was prepared and no one interested on it.... will be waste of time to me, and to Nordic.... so... tell what you think about.
Let's go boys!
regards,
Carlos
Carlos what happens to your picture if you install the transistors upright...? i.e. not flat... so the PCB and flat heatsink form 90 a degree angle...
I agree trying to get even two transistors properly lined without some board or template on a flat surface is damn hard, and 6 will be pretty silly hard...
So the person who had the idea of adding an area that can be broken off optionally might have the most flexible solution... but it is the most expensive...
Re capacitive effects, you should be ok as long as you have about an 8mm clearance between the PCB and heatsinks...
Before I lifted my HRII boards away from the sinks I could hear it when I tapped the heatsink... and stargest thihng of all, I have this one old CD player that would stop playing through one channel when that happened... would work fine if powered off and on again... all I did to fixx it was to move the board higher from the sink. Didn't even need spacers... Cut M3 thread into the holes on the board and M3 holes into sink so I could adjust the height using just the screws...
David, you could still mount on your heatsink using a U shaped piece of aluminium angle I guess....
But our objections seem to be based around the same thing... where to get the alu from... and will it compromise heat transfer to the actual heatsink....
I think the easiest answer is to just get the prototype build up, and see if the damn thing works... I am still haveing sleepless nights as I got so little feedback from HRII yet... maybe people are just trying to be easy on my feelings...
Shame Carlos, one of your countrymen had his boards stolen at the post office less than 2km from his house...
After my gearbox and little emergency room drama I unfortunatley can't send any freebies this month...
Hey that gives me an idea.. maybe he would like my old prototype boards... still got most of the parts on even...
Boards are pretty near finished and I allready requested a quote from the factory for a prototype PI board this morning...
Single sided, with top and bottom mask and top and bottom silkscreen. as there are parts on both sides of the board
I agree trying to get even two transistors properly lined without some board or template on a flat surface is damn hard, and 6 will be pretty silly hard...
So the person who had the idea of adding an area that can be broken off optionally might have the most flexible solution... but it is the most expensive...
Re capacitive effects, you should be ok as long as you have about an 8mm clearance between the PCB and heatsinks...
Before I lifted my HRII boards away from the sinks I could hear it when I tapped the heatsink... and stargest thihng of all, I have this one old CD player that would stop playing through one channel when that happened... would work fine if powered off and on again... all I did to fixx it was to move the board higher from the sink. Didn't even need spacers... Cut M3 thread into the holes on the board and M3 holes into sink so I could adjust the height using just the screws...
David, you could still mount on your heatsink using a U shaped piece of aluminium angle I guess....
But our objections seem to be based around the same thing... where to get the alu from... and will it compromise heat transfer to the actual heatsink....
I think the easiest answer is to just get the prototype build up, and see if the damn thing works... I am still haveing sleepless nights as I got so little feedback from HRII yet... maybe people are just trying to be easy on my feelings...
Shame Carlos, one of your countrymen had his boards stolen at the post office less than 2km from his house...
After my gearbox and little emergency room drama I unfortunatley can't send any freebies this month...
Hey that gives me an idea.. maybe he would like my old prototype boards... still got most of the parts on even...
Boards are pretty near finished and I allready requested a quote from the factory for a prototype PI board this morning...
Single sided, with top and bottom mask and top and bottom silkscreen. as there are parts on both sides of the board
Folks
I like best the mounting approach suggested by Carlos since it provides means of supporting the board without any additional screws.
If the transistors are attached directly to the heatsink it would require either an L-bracket to secure the board (if perpendicular to the heatsink) or four spacers (if mounted parallel to the heatsink). Yes, I am a lazy bastard...
I wish "flanged/ledge heatsinks" would be easily available here in the US... I guess I will keep looking on eBay.
Regardless, the board design to accomodate either the "flanged/ledge heatsink" or the L-bracket would be the same.
I think Nordic's most current design (shown on post #302) reflects what Carlos is asking for.
The layout shown on post #278 would also work if a large whole is drilled to acomodate the quick disconnect spade. A little more work, but not a big deal if really required.
My two cents for whatever they are worth.
Cheers!
I like best the mounting approach suggested by Carlos since it provides means of supporting the board without any additional screws.
If the transistors are attached directly to the heatsink it would require either an L-bracket to secure the board (if perpendicular to the heatsink) or four spacers (if mounted parallel to the heatsink). Yes, I am a lazy bastard...
I wish "flanged/ledge heatsinks" would be easily available here in the US... I guess I will keep looking on eBay.
Regardless, the board design to accomodate either the "flanged/ledge heatsink" or the L-bracket would be the same.
I think Nordic's most current design (shown on post #302) reflects what Carlos is asking for.
The layout shown on post #278 would also work if a large whole is drilled to acomodate the quick disconnect spade. A little more work, but not a big deal if really required.
My two cents for whatever they are worth.
Cheers!
just do the board.... too many votes ..too much time wasted...
Thank you to vote...i think you have voted Duda... and triast
I also think it is time to go ahead.
But we are still collecting votes.
Three votes to "L" profile mounting... 1 vote against.
Stuey and Rabbitz have not confirmed votes... seems to me Stuey will vote "L" profile and Rabittz against..but i cannot compute those votes, not clear, not confirmed.
Also Duda was not entirelly clear, but left strong beliefe into "L" shape mounting adaptor...better to return, dear Duda, and write clear..vote of "L" shape!
This "L" is made at home with a piece of aluminium..the door gap or some metal gate.... you insert the aluminium and bend it with your hands.
regards,
Carlos
I also think it is time to go ahead.
But we are still collecting votes.
Three votes to "L" profile mounting... 1 vote against.
Stuey and Rabbitz have not confirmed votes... seems to me Stuey will vote "L" profile and Rabittz against..but i cannot compute those votes, not clear, not confirmed.
Also Duda was not entirelly clear, but left strong beliefe into "L" shape mounting adaptor...better to return, dear Duda, and write clear..vote of "L" shape!
This "L" is made at home with a piece of aluminium..the door gap or some metal gate.... you insert the aluminium and bend it with your hands.
regards,
Carlos
Re: Thank you to vote...i think you have voted Duda... and triast
Just confirming: my vote is for L-bracket for the reasons previously mentioned.
Cheers!
Just confirming: my vote is for L-bracket for the reasons previously mentioned.
Cheers!
carlos,
Could you describe again 😱 the sound of dx precision ?
I want to hear more from you directly about the results of this new amp.
Could you describe again 😱 the sound of dx precision ?
I want to hear more from you directly about the results of this new amp.
Was made to be precise, not to measure, but to sound alike studio monitor amplifiers
we have into recording studios, radio stations and Television stations.... that sound without colouration....natural, but a little stérile into my point of view, not contaminated, pure, asseptic, have nothing strange..... i am not lover of those sounds.
Was made to "audiophiles"... to forum folks, to sound modern, to sound clear, loud, with small distortion when overdriven, distorting with some class... with clear and crispy trebles, present, nice sound stage without fake positionings...not that forced separation surround system produces,nothing different from the real things we face into studio.
The bass is precise, short in duration, not damped, not long alike you have into the Dx Standard...the bass note is not that so long Booooooom! you have into the Standard, the Vanilla, the Classic one...the bass is shorter in time.... it is booom! only.
But you perceive better the differences of tone into the bass, it is less "monotonic"..single tone bass than the Standard...not that reproduces only a single tone bass..but all amplifiers produce this effect (defect) more...or less present.
Voices are special in the Precision, better than in the Standard..and the treble comes closer.... bells sound as bells, drums sound as drums...but tempest, storms, thunder sound produces less scare in your heart...woman voices put you to cry if good enougth recording made.
Dinamic is better, it is more faster amplifier, noise is even lower..plays loud without produce the scandall of distortion the Standard produces.... as standard, when distorting scream alike a big beeing sacrificed with a bad blade cutting it slowly!
Build it to listen to it...make is dirty, no problems...solder over pieces of metal, nails..or anything you find.... you will like it.
Sound is personal evaluation...must use your ears... you can appreciate it or not.... i continue to love the Standard..even knowing the HRII and Precision smash it.... eat the standard without too much effort...but i still love the warm colouration... the velvet voices...the bass punch, deep.... alike the throat of devil into the deepest hole of hell!
regards,
Carlos
we have into recording studios, radio stations and Television stations.... that sound without colouration....natural, but a little stérile into my point of view, not contaminated, pure, asseptic, have nothing strange..... i am not lover of those sounds.
Was made to "audiophiles"... to forum folks, to sound modern, to sound clear, loud, with small distortion when overdriven, distorting with some class... with clear and crispy trebles, present, nice sound stage without fake positionings...not that forced separation surround system produces,nothing different from the real things we face into studio.
The bass is precise, short in duration, not damped, not long alike you have into the Dx Standard...the bass note is not that so long Booooooom! you have into the Standard, the Vanilla, the Classic one...the bass is shorter in time.... it is booom! only.
But you perceive better the differences of tone into the bass, it is less "monotonic"..single tone bass than the Standard...not that reproduces only a single tone bass..but all amplifiers produce this effect (defect) more...or less present.
Voices are special in the Precision, better than in the Standard..and the treble comes closer.... bells sound as bells, drums sound as drums...but tempest, storms, thunder sound produces less scare in your heart...woman voices put you to cry if good enougth recording made.
Dinamic is better, it is more faster amplifier, noise is even lower..plays loud without produce the scandall of distortion the Standard produces.... as standard, when distorting scream alike a big beeing sacrificed with a bad blade cutting it slowly!
Build it to listen to it...make is dirty, no problems...solder over pieces of metal, nails..or anything you find.... you will like it.
Sound is personal evaluation...must use your ears... you can appreciate it or not.... i continue to love the Standard..even knowing the HRII and Precision smash it.... eat the standard without too much effort...but i still love the warm colouration... the velvet voices...the bass punch, deep.... alike the throat of devil into the deepest hole of hell!
regards,
Carlos
Duda's vote confirmed.
I would like to call dear Rabbitz, my friend, to say true..even against my ideas... i know is nigth there..will be waiting for you too, lovely Aussies... Stuey and Rabbitz.... i will always appreciate you very much dear Rabbitz..we both love the Sansuí..we have other things we agree...no problem!
Post your votes please...be clear.... i am a stranger...i talk portuguese..so... be very clear.
Vote to X or Vote to Z
No problem..both of them my amplifier, boards made by nephew Nordic.... i think if Nico idea wins..we gonna have boards even faster, as he will work in a more pleasant way.... also boards will be cheaper (and less pretty too..ahahahahah!)
regards,
Carlos
I would like to call dear Rabbitz, my friend, to say true..even against my ideas... i know is nigth there..will be waiting for you too, lovely Aussies... Stuey and Rabbitz.... i will always appreciate you very much dear Rabbitz..we both love the Sansuí..we have other things we agree...no problem!
Post your votes please...be clear.... i am a stranger...i talk portuguese..so... be very clear.
Vote to X or Vote to Z
No problem..both of them my amplifier, boards made by nephew Nordic.... i think if Nico idea wins..we gonna have boards even faster, as he will work in a more pleasant way.... also boards will be cheaper (and less pretty too..ahahahahah!)
regards,
Carlos
The Honorable Mr. President of the Dx Corporation, USA Headquarters
Have received the visit of Santa Claus that come to say thanks as the Dx Corporation have provided many gifts into this Christmas.
Santa said his wish to work together Luis Eduardo (Duda) next Christmas too.
Hystorical picture number E-03/9938478USA
Duda is brazilian, an Acoustic Enginneer with fame into the world, having things done around the world.. also very famous alike Santa Claus.
USA, Nashville Division was represented by our forum friend, C2C.... Sea to Sea.. former military operator of missile launch control.... have defended USA against the danger that came from the North into those days..... the cold war days.
regards,
Carlos
Have received the visit of Santa Claus that come to say thanks as the Dx Corporation have provided many gifts into this Christmas.
Santa said his wish to work together Luis Eduardo (Duda) next Christmas too.
Hystorical picture number E-03/9938478USA
Duda is brazilian, an Acoustic Enginneer with fame into the world, having things done around the world.. also very famous alike Santa Claus.
USA, Nashville Division was represented by our forum friend, C2C.... Sea to Sea.. former military operator of missile launch control.... have defended USA against the danger that came from the North into those days..... the cold war days.
regards,
Carlos
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