Hi,
I suspect you have a good point there but the question remains.
What is the cause of the assumed audible difference?
As for lead cable, it sound dull, slow and dirty.
Besides the fact that it isn't an atractive material conductivitywise so to speak I doubt anyone could succeed to make a decent sounding cable using lead as a conductor.
Which brings us back to the nature of the conductor and why different metals all sound different...IOW, back to square one.
Ciao,
Both sides are too hung up on this R, L, C thing. Being a distributed system a measurement technique with sufficient resolution will always find a difference. This reminds me of the resistor measurements "they sound different, and this one has -140dB distortion and this one has -150dB distortion and that MUST be the difference". This approach will not resolve these issues.
Never tried lead cables but the #30 magnet wire sounded a little thin.
I suspect you have a good point there but the question remains.
What is the cause of the assumed audible difference?
As for lead cable, it sound dull, slow and dirty.
Besides the fact that it isn't an atractive material conductivitywise so to speak I doubt anyone could succeed to make a decent sounding cable using lead as a conductor.
Which brings us back to the nature of the conductor and why different metals all sound different...IOW, back to square one.
Ciao,
Hi,
Of course. Isn't this what this thread is about? Getting rid of the assumptions and forward proof?
The reason I brought up lead as a conductor is that's it's so obviously audible.
OTOH I also want to make sure that it is the lead content causing it and not any other factor.
Which in return is also why I insist it is important to collect enough data about the DUTs before throwing them in for comparison in a controlled listening test.
Cheers,
Of course. Isn't this what this thread is about? Getting rid of the assumptions and forward proof?
The reason I brought up lead as a conductor is that's it's so obviously audible.
OTOH I also want to make sure that it is the lead content causing it and not any other factor.
Which in return is also why I insist it is important to collect enough data about the DUTs before throwing them in for comparison in a controlled listening test.
Cheers,
Hi,
Absolutely no waste at all.
Siver wire is often used in RF equipment and for good reason.
For a MC cart the use of silver coils allows for a reduction in moving mass for example. Can't be such a bad thing, can it?
Cheers,
This is a sad waste then. Subjectivists are at least convinced it makes a difference and you use it because Tektronix do?!
The "marginal difference" cannot possibly be measurable in an audio context.
Admit the truth: you only use it to impress your audiophile buddies
Absolutely no waste at all.
Siver wire is often used in RF equipment and for good reason.
For a MC cart the use of silver coils allows for a reduction in moving mass for example. Can't be such a bad thing, can it?
Cheers,
Hi,
Absolutely no waste at all.
Siver wire is often used in RF equipment and for good reason.
For a MC cart the use of silver coils allows for a reduction in moving mass for example. Can't be such a bad thing, can it?
Cheers,
Afraid you missed the context Frank. I only referred to SY using it in his system, not because it sounds better but because it "might make a marginal difference". Doesn't appear like he can hear it though. Is it not a waste?
I assume that by "you," you are meaning one/man/on rather than you/du/tu, since I'm not someone making any claims. One might want to actually do a controlled listening test to confirm your (as yet) totally unsupported assertion that different materials sound different as tonearm wires for reasons other than mass or stiffness.
I have no idea if I can or can't hear it, but since it was easy and cheap to wire up my phono stage that way, I did it, just in case it WAS audible. I haven't rewired my tonearm for reasons already discussed (I'm chicken). Silver may be slightly advantageous (certainly measurably, possibly audibly) for the tonearm to preamp lead, but that costs more. One nice fellow offered to just send me some for free, but I suspect I'll just end up buying some and sticking it in that spot.
I will not be doing a rigorous listening test, so you may be assured that I will not make claims of audibility for this sort of marginal change.
Hi,
In that context I agree although I can also see other reasons for substituting a length of copper wire for silver at this stage of the amplification chain.
Not sure what SY's leitmotiv is here though.
Ciao,
In that context I agree although I can also see other reasons for substituting a length of copper wire for silver at this stage of the amplification chain.
Not sure what SY's leitmotiv is here though.
Ciao,
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Hi,
Whatever but you/tu/ti/du/jij were the one suggesting the controlled listening test in the first place as a scientifically valid means to remove the dreaded assumptions.
What you seem to forget is that for the past years people have been reporting their listening tests here and all they've been getting so far is: not scientific, no proof or bring on the proof, fill in the blank...
IOW when hundreds, thousands of people worldwide report the same or at least very similar listening/testing results and get the door slammed in their faces you now want to make them do more of the same?
I call it sending people of on the merry go round while you guys are biding time hoping someone (one you're willing to believe) will do your homework for you.
Cheers,
Whatever but you/tu/ti/du/jij were the one suggesting the controlled listening test in the first place as a scientifically valid means to remove the dreaded assumptions.
What you seem to forget is that for the past years people have been reporting their listening tests here and all they've been getting so far is: not scientific, no proof or bring on the proof, fill in the blank...
IOW when hundreds, thousands of people worldwide report the same or at least very similar listening/testing results and get the door slammed in their faces you now want to make them do more of the same?
I call it sending people of on the merry go round while you guys are biding time hoping someone (one you're willing to believe) will do your homework for you.
Cheers,
Hi,
The assumption lies in the quantization of the word marginal.
Since you now hold a tool to actually compare wouldn't it be a missed opportunity to not use it?
If you don't I'd rather be inclined to call that intellectual laziness as well as intellectual dishonesty. If you catch my meaning...
Cheers,
The assumption lies in the quantization of the word marginal.
Since you now hold a tool to actually compare wouldn't it be a missed opportunity to not use it?
If you don't I'd rather be inclined to call that intellectual laziness as well as intellectual dishonesty. If you catch my meaning...
Cheers,
Call me lazy, then. I can live with that. I'd rather use my limited time toward stuff more likely to make real differences. And it's already accepted amongst the faith based crew that I'm deaf and have a crappy system, rendering any null results moot.
Really? I haven't seen any listening tests on composition of tonearm wire. Could you give me a link?
Really? I haven't seen any listening tests on composition of tonearm wire. Could you give me a link?
Hi,
I don't remember any specific threads about tonearm wire but I'm absolutely certain there have been some.
They're probably stuck somewhere deep down in the archives, not impossible to unearth but I'm afraid I'm too lazy as well.
'Faudra donc se trouver un autre larbin, n'est-ce pas?....
Either way, tonearm or elsewhere, does it really matter?
The only advantage of comparing cable at the tonearm end is that any difference is amplified throughout the entire chain...
FYI, when I read: "I am to lazy to..", I actually read: " I can't be bothered".
Don't you?
Cheers,
I don't remember any specific threads about tonearm wire but I'm absolutely certain there have been some.
They're probably stuck somewhere deep down in the archives, not impossible to unearth but I'm afraid I'm too lazy as well.
'Faudra donc se trouver un autre larbin, n'est-ce pas?....
Either way, tonearm or elsewhere, does it really matter?
The only advantage of comparing cable at the tonearm end is that any difference is amplified throughout the entire chain...
FYI, when I read: "I am to lazy to..", I actually read: " I can't be bothered".
Don't you?
Cheers,
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