Sounds like my 2nd wife
Ron
You were getting 10%? What's you're secret? Are you fabulously wealthy?
John
OK, you lost me there. Why not?
A normal balanced-input pre-amp (without transformer) would have some input impedance between each input (i.e. inverting and non-inverting) and earth.
Do you not have any DC path to earth from the cartridge anywhere?
Or is this for when the "-" pins of the cartridge are grounded to the headshell?
It's the problem of nomenclature and strict definition. All ungrounded signals are balanced, but not all balanced topologies conform to the ungrounded signal topology.
John
Not any more.
When referring to "Balanced" signals, It would be logical that the balance is between each side and some (same) reference point. (ground)
I'm thinking of a teeter-totter being balanced on a fulcrum (ground) and each end being the MC.
If the signal were Mono, but not grounded would it too be "Balanced"?
Ron
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The balance in "balanced" refers to balanced impedances. Between + and ground and - and ground. Ground can either be fixed, or floating as is the case with a non-center tapped transformer primary.
It's the balance of impedances that's required for best common-mode rejection.
se
OK,
So a mono signal CAN be balanced? Correct?
I had thought (erroneously) that the R&L signals were balanced to each other from the ground, not themselves. But, now, thinking about it, that's why balanced wiring has 3 wires, not 2. One being the shield (ground) and the other 2 being (+) and (-) .
ie: Cat5e and Star Quad from Canare are both balanced cabling.
OK, thanks guys I think I got it now.
Duh, seems simple, Simon.
Ron
So a mono signal CAN be balanced? Correct?
I had thought (erroneously) that the R&L signals were balanced to each other from the ground, not themselves. But, now, thinking about it, that's why balanced wiring has 3 wires, not 2. One being the shield (ground) and the other 2 being (+) and (-) .
ie: Cat5e and Star Quad from Canare are both balanced cabling.
OK, thanks guys I think I got it now.
Duh, seems simple, Simon.
Ron
Hi,
Truth be told I got fed up reading the B.S.
If you want to learn about cable this is the way to go.
Solid core, multi-strand, insulation materials, twisting. Whatever.
If you have a revealing enough setup it'll be audible to the point of wondering why people think cable isn't audible.
Pretty much everything's audible but very few people actually listen.
Cheers,
Truth be told I got fed up reading the B.S.
If you want to learn about cable this is the way to go.
Solid core, multi-strand, insulation materials, twisting. Whatever.
If you have a revealing enough setup it'll be audible to the point of wondering why people think cable isn't audible.
Pretty much everything's audible but very few people actually listen.
Cheers,
Truth be told I got fed up reading the B.S.
If you want to learn about cable this is the way to go.
Solid core, multi-strand, insulation materials, twisting. Whatever.
If you have a revealing enough setup it'll be audible to the point of wondering why people think cable isn't audible.
Pretty much everything's audible but very few people actually listen.
Thank you Frank (fdegrove)
You have nailed the head bang on.
I tried 4 different XLR connector; cardas the worst, gold plated Vampire next, cheapest coming second, and Neutrik silver plated on top.
I tried 6 different cables for my balanced system, no list needed.
I am now using, and may never change, unshielded, high purity silver wire, no jacket required. There is absolutely no RFI in my system.
It was only after trying all the different combinations that my wife said 'that's the one, don't change it'!.
If you want to learn about cable this is the way to go.
Solid core, multi-strand, insulation materials, twisting. Whatever.
If you have a revealing enough setup it'll be audible to the point of wondering why people think cable isn't audible.
Pretty much everything's audible but very few people actually listen.
Thank you Frank (fdegrove)
You have nailed the head bang on.
I tried 4 different XLR connector; cardas the worst, gold plated Vampire next, cheapest coming second, and Neutrik silver plated on top.
I tried 6 different cables for my balanced system, no list needed.
I am now using, and may never change, unshielded, high purity silver wire, no jacket required. There is absolutely no RFI in my system.
It was only after trying all the different combinations that my wife said 'that's the one, don't change it'!.
Probably because she was fed up to the back teeth with all the "experimenting"!
Sandy
Again?
Why, Oh why, does it always come down to this...........
If you can, or if you just "think" you can, does it really matter? No.
Each of us decides what sounds "best". This, more than likely, does not sound the "best" to someone else. I (admittedly) have terrible hearing due to years in the home construction industry, however, I know that I prefer some interconnects over others. Is one "better" than the other? I Dunno. But I leave the one I prefer installed in my system and take the other one out. Could the difference be measured? Again, I dunno. Maybe. I DON'T care. If you are the type that needs to have empirical data to support what you "think" you may hear, then fine, now you have your proof. Some of us (myself included) don't need that proof or to prove to anyone else that we prefer one over another.
Who gives a Rodents rear end!
Moving on.
What we (collectively) are looking for when we ask the "better" question is;
What are the common results from our individual experiences with different types of wires?
Some of my examples are;
Stiff wires are bad, and will impede tonearm movement.
Silver plated copper sounds "tinny" to my ears.
Solid silver wire sounds more exacting, crisper to my ears.
Copper wire sounds smoother and richer, drum strikes are "rounded" to my ears.
Is one "better"? I dunno. I can only state which I prefer. Better is a subjective term.
Ron
Why, Oh why, does it always come down to this...........
If you can, or if you just "think" you can, does it really matter? No.
Each of us decides what sounds "best". This, more than likely, does not sound the "best" to someone else. I (admittedly) have terrible hearing due to years in the home construction industry, however, I know that I prefer some interconnects over others. Is one "better" than the other? I Dunno. But I leave the one I prefer installed in my system and take the other one out. Could the difference be measured? Again, I dunno. Maybe. I DON'T care. If you are the type that needs to have empirical data to support what you "think" you may hear, then fine, now you have your proof. Some of us (myself included) don't need that proof or to prove to anyone else that we prefer one over another.
Who gives a Rodents rear end!
Moving on.
What we (collectively) are looking for when we ask the "better" question is;
What are the common results from our individual experiences with different types of wires?
Some of my examples are;
Stiff wires are bad, and will impede tonearm movement.
Silver plated copper sounds "tinny" to my ears.
Solid silver wire sounds more exacting, crisper to my ears.
Copper wire sounds smoother and richer, drum strikes are "rounded" to my ears.
Is one "better"? I dunno. I can only state which I prefer. Better is a subjective term.
Ron
Hi,
You forgot to mention gold....
What matters to me is the acknowledgement that tonearm cable, and for that matter cable in general can sound different.
What's best for your system is a matter of how you prefer your system to sound.
There are an awful lot of reasons why two pieces of copper wire won't necessarily sound the same but price shouldn't be one of them.
Yes, all metals have a different sonic fingerprint, or tonal balance if you like, silverclad copper doesn't sound the same at all as pure silver and so on.
The chemical composition of various mineral waters vary and so does the way they taste. Most people seem to accept that, some even take it for granted.
But when the chemical composition of a cable varies from one sample to another we have all the difficulty in the world to accept this can have an impact on how it will sound.
Which is kind of strange when you consider that we judge a cook by the way his food tastes....
Isn't a good audio electronics designer not someone who intimately knows the sound of the components he uses and judiciously picks to create a sound which he feels is correct.
By doing so does he add or distract anything currently measurable? Not that I know of.
When you replace those fine WIMA MKP caps with a boutique brand did you measure any difference?
Did the amp still sound the same as before?
So, obviously measurements don't tell the whole story.
That doesn't mean they're useless either but we should look at them the same way as we would look at a computer; they're just a tool and therefore just as silly or as clever as the person using them....
Cheers,
You forgot to mention gold....
What matters to me is the acknowledgement that tonearm cable, and for that matter cable in general can sound different.
What's best for your system is a matter of how you prefer your system to sound.
There are an awful lot of reasons why two pieces of copper wire won't necessarily sound the same but price shouldn't be one of them.
Yes, all metals have a different sonic fingerprint, or tonal balance if you like, silverclad copper doesn't sound the same at all as pure silver and so on.
The chemical composition of various mineral waters vary and so does the way they taste. Most people seem to accept that, some even take it for granted.
But when the chemical composition of a cable varies from one sample to another we have all the difficulty in the world to accept this can have an impact on how it will sound.
Which is kind of strange when you consider that we judge a cook by the way his food tastes....
Isn't a good audio electronics designer not someone who intimately knows the sound of the components he uses and judiciously picks to create a sound which he feels is correct.
By doing so does he add or distract anything currently measurable? Not that I know of.
When you replace those fine WIMA MKP caps with a boutique brand did you measure any difference?
Did the amp still sound the same as before?
So, obviously measurements don't tell the whole story.
That doesn't mean they're useless either but we should look at them the same way as we would look at a computer; they're just a tool and therefore just as silly or as clever as the person using them....
Cheers,
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Hi,
Only the insecure need tests.
Cheers,
Only those with a questioning mind need tests. Faith is the cornerstone of religion and look at that mess.
Hi,
Why do people demand proof, evidence and so forth?
Do you hear the subtle (or not so subtle to my ears) differences between cables, wires etc. ?
You probably don't for if you would you would have put yourself to the test long ago.
Now prove to me you can taste the difference between a Carlsberg and a Tuborg beer.
That should be easy enough but to millions of people beer's just beer and to hundreds of thousands those two are just Danish pils, they just don't care.
In order to be able to perceive one has to be willing to be be perceptive.
Mind you, I don't blame anyone for not hearing what some of us do.
We're not demanding evidence so why should you?
Ciao,
Errr, yeah, that's me. Insecure.
Why do people demand proof, evidence and so forth?
Do you hear the subtle (or not so subtle to my ears) differences between cables, wires etc. ?
You probably don't for if you would you would have put yourself to the test long ago.
Now prove to me you can taste the difference between a Carlsberg and a Tuborg beer.
That should be easy enough but to millions of people beer's just beer and to hundreds of thousands those two are just Danish pils, they just don't care.
In order to be able to perceive one has to be willing to be be perceptive.
Mind you, I don't blame anyone for not hearing what some of us do.
We're not demanding evidence so why should you?
Ciao,
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