On the soundstage of a rock music band, who's the one holding the glue all together?
The drummer, that's who.
The drummer, that's who.
That's a special interest of mine, getting a boots and all rock recording to work properly - started with Status Quo 30 years ago, and these recordings still are an easy way to humble a pretentious system. Got a very nice live Jimmi Hendrix, with excellent audience ambience - and the drum kit is very well recorded - turn up the volume to realistic levels, and see how the sound holds together ...
An excellent demo album is the first Peter Green's Splinter album, beautifully recorded - but the way some of the ultra expensive gear at the recent audio show handled it left a bit to be desired ... 🙂
An excellent demo album is the first Peter Green's Splinter album, beautifully recorded - but the way some of the ultra expensive gear at the recent audio show handled it left a bit to be desired ... 🙂
We're @ the threshold of a new era; the precipitation of a new world's soundstage with brand new players with a better agenda for all the normal people.
...The harmonious ones.
...The harmonious ones.
Also, the bass player 😀
BTW, I used to play (rock) bass and I always tell people that in a band, "the drummer is the bass player's best friend"....... they have to work together in perfect sync.
Last edited:
the story as relayed to me as to the source of the skin for "Sister Drum" is more than a bit disturbing - makes one ponder as to the mallets
While not as well known as any Wilson Audio system, I had the distinct pleasure of hearing this on a system of Gary Pimm's a few years back (will have advanced much from then I'm sure) - now there's a system that had soundstage extending yards past the width and depth of the room. Another great track was a high res capture of live performance of "O Fortuna" by, I think it was the SF(?) symphony orchestra and men's choir - the singular most realistic recording I've yet heard. It made any of the systems on demo at the VSAC2008 pale by comparison in terms of "you are there, and it doesn't hurt" - IOW, throw enough money and power into a system and you can certainly attain "live-er than live " SP levels, etc, but not necessarily without a price beyond the financial.
While not as well known as any Wilson Audio system, I had the distinct pleasure of hearing this on a system of Gary Pimm's a few years back (will have advanced much from then I'm sure) - now there's a system that had soundstage extending yards past the width and depth of the room. Another great track was a high res capture of live performance of "O Fortuna" by, I think it was the SF(?) symphony orchestra and men's choir - the singular most realistic recording I've yet heard. It made any of the systems on demo at the VSAC2008 pale by comparison in terms of "you are there, and it doesn't hurt" - IOW, throw enough money and power into a system and you can certainly attain "live-er than live " SP levels, etc, but not necessarily without a price beyond the financial.
It's simpler than that. Clean power is the key ... and the vast majority of systems never get there, because it's the fiddling with the fine details that make all the difference - plug 'n' play is almost certain to never do it ...
60W of sorted out power, average sensitivity speakers will do it easily - but you would never think so while listening to 99% of setups.
So, it's not money, or power ... it's knowledge, and a keen focus, attention to detail that are essential. Which means it ain't ever gonna happen ... most times ... 😉 😀
Should we switch "soundstage" (hobby) Frank? 🙂 ...Or get "clean" gear and "clean" music* recordings?
* Beck's "Morning Phase", his latest album; LP, CD, MP3, hi-res audio philes (about five different versions), is that a "clean" recording?
Can a "clean" audio rig clean it up a little? ...Can we EQ it (DSPing) to make it more satisfactory, with a wider and deeper soundstage, and greater micro and macro dynamics? ...You know, just not cool music to listen to but also "audiofile" reproduced music.
* Beck's "Morning Phase", his latest album; LP, CD, MP3, hi-res audio philes (about five different versions), is that a "clean" recording?
Can a "clean" audio rig clean it up a little? ...Can we EQ it (DSPing) to make it more satisfactory, with a wider and deeper soundstage, and greater micro and macro dynamics? ...You know, just not cool music to listen to but also "audiofile" reproduced music.
Last edited:
Bob, first of all, what's "wrong" with it? The soundstage is what it is, as captured during the recording, the micro dynamics likewise. If heavily compressed, then most systems will be struggling to do the macro dynamics at decent volumes, and the micro dynamics will be lost on the way, blurred by the system losing the plot.
This is the point about optimising systems - to make them capable of delivering the powerful SPLs, transients ... without losing the ability to render fine detail, a split second later, in a satisfying, natural way.
This is the point about optimising systems - to make them capable of delivering the powerful SPLs, transients ... without losing the ability to render fine detail, a split second later, in a satisfying, natural way.
Not convinced that's enough.
I'm running 98dB@1w speakers with 200w/ch, plus 1kW into the sub.
Cranked up, the snare can make me wince. Sounds perfectly clean, but also as loud as when the drum kit is in the same room as you.
I rather my system has the sheer dynamic range to do this properly than the last word in detail.
Something tells me that most "average sensitivity" speakers won't stand up to that sort of abuse. For starters, they'd need 2kW/ch...
Chris
And here's the dilemma; the music recordings themselves.
How many of them truly capture the soundstage of the live performance? ...Studio soundstage?
Let's stay with reality; Classical music recorded on a real stage.
...Or a live Jazz band at a decent venue (acoustic sound wise).
What music we mainly reproduce in our rigs is highly compressed music, electronica without real soundstage.
There are only very few genres that are serious about music reproduction (high fidelity of the live event).
How many of them truly capture the soundstage of the live performance? ...Studio soundstage?
Let's stay with reality; Classical music recorded on a real stage.
...Or a live Jazz band at a decent venue (acoustic sound wise).
What music we mainly reproduce in our rigs is highly compressed music, electronica without real soundstage.
There are only very few genres that are serious about music reproduction (high fidelity of the live event).
I agree with you; real music reproduction requires clean peaks in the several thousands of watts.
Bob, had a listen to what seems to be the only track you can hear on YouTube from that album - sounds fine to me ... plenty of soundstage to play with ...
The trick is to do both: dynamic range and detail - if you only have the former then basically it's just a variation of a PA setup ... and those types of rigs are generally only satisfying on certain types of music, or, if exceptionally well sorted out ... it can happen ... 😀
I have never yet found the speaker to be the problem - it's always the amp that starts to collapse ... and if it goes down badly then it can take out the speaker on the way. I've had nothing speakers running for long periods of time, totally cleanly, at a level which is deafening - meaning, if someone wants to tell me something they have to come up and speak directly into my ear to understand them ...
That's an urban myth, Bob ... Basspig at WBF achieves SPLs way beyond what mere mortals could tolerate, and as he's keen to point out the amps he uses barely get out of first gear to do it - for him, it's all about using high quality, very high efficiency pro gear speaker drivers intelligently - it's a doddle to get the SPLs he aims for. He also points out the biggest problem is conquering residual noise problems, at the gains his equipment is running at hiss and grounding issues are the big hurdles, he's spent a lot of time getting these under control ...
Really? ...Not Jeff Beck but only Beck. 🙂
Computer Audiophile - And The Winner Is …
New Beck Album, 'Morning Phase': All Songs Considered Interview : All Songs Considered : NPR
He's running several subwoofers, and few professional amps.
High efficiency, yes you need that.
He's not driving electrostats, and not using Class A amps either. ...Class D?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.