The Wiki has been changed to add a link to the xo schematics, tweeter polarity added and the crossover values altered in line with the current designs.
D27TG / P13WH Wiki
D27TG / P13WH Wiki
Good work, now you have me thinking about digging out the VIFAs and loading them into the queue.
dave
dave
can someone tell me what the difference is between the p13wh0008 and the p13wh1004?
Im guessing the 4 refers to impedence, but what about the 1?
edit:
nevermind. Car speaker. That changes the question.
Aside from impedance, how would this driver differ from the p13wh0008?
The FR curve looks similar. I dont expect it would be a drop in alternative but with two components it wouldn't be the most difficult thing in the world to figure out.
Im asking because its on sale at solen.
Theres info with a FR curve here:
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/vifacatalog.pdf#search="p13wh-10-04"
edit#2: ok nevermind. Its a completely different driver. The TS parameters are completely different. Optimized for off axis listening. Of course if someone wanted to play around, they still have a beautiful FR curve and would probably be really nice to design for.
Im guessing the 4 refers to impedence, but what about the 1?
edit:
nevermind. Car speaker. That changes the question.
Aside from impedance, how would this driver differ from the p13wh0008?
The FR curve looks similar. I dont expect it would be a drop in alternative but with two components it wouldn't be the most difficult thing in the world to figure out.
Im asking because its on sale at solen.
Theres info with a FR curve here:
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/vifacatalog.pdf#search="p13wh-10-04"
edit#2: ok nevermind. Its a completely different driver. The TS parameters are completely different. Optimized for off axis listening. Of course if someone wanted to play around, they still have a beautiful FR curve and would probably be really nice to design for.
Quick question, madisound has a D27TG45, but it doesn't look like the tweeter inthe esquire pic. It looks like the D27TG35 thats available at PE and Madisound. It doesn't seem like much difference if any between the two expcept for the faceplate. Which is the correct tweet or could I use either?
You could go with either tweeter but I think the D27TG45 is supposed to be a tad better.... not 100% sure.
D27TG35 is used here as no stocks of the D27TG45 left at the distributor in Oz.
D27TG35 is used here as no stocks of the D27TG45 left at the distributor in Oz.
Today I build the AR series crossover using:
L1 = 0.11 mH
L2 = 1.20 mH
R1 = 6.8 ohm
C1 = 22 uF
For L1 I used a copperfoil inductor. L2 is a Tritec 2.0mm2 coil (coil wire consists out of 6 seperate strings twisted together) R1 is a MOX resistor. I executed C1 as a 400V Audyn MKP in parallel with a 0.1uF 800V Audyn plus.
I also took some pictures of the crossover:
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8804/p9160044va4.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/8549/p9160045yw5.jpg
This AR crossover is really nice sounding, better then the previous crossovers I used.
Best regards,
Walt
L1 = 0.11 mH
L2 = 1.20 mH
R1 = 6.8 ohm
C1 = 22 uF
For L1 I used a copperfoil inductor. L2 is a Tritec 2.0mm2 coil (coil wire consists out of 6 seperate strings twisted together) R1 is a MOX resistor. I executed C1 as a 400V Audyn MKP in parallel with a 0.1uF 800V Audyn plus.
I also took some pictures of the crossover:
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8804/p9160044va4.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/8549/p9160045yw5.jpg
This AR crossover is really nice sounding, better then the previous crossovers I used.
Best regards,
Walt
But the Vifa drivers are going away!
The P13 project looks great, and I was thinking of, as Dave said, putting it in the queue... but the P13 driver is being discontinued.
Can we start Reference Project #2? 😀
Possibilities:
The Seas 27TDFC tweeter seems to have a following and appears to be easy to cross over...
And keeping things in the spirit of the P13, any of the Seas CA12, CA15, or CA18 could work. And Madisound sells shielding cups.
Hmmm... the CA12RCY, vented f3 at 75Hz in a 2L enclosure... where was that thread about a BO$E
slayer? 😀
cheesehead
The P13 project looks great, and I was thinking of, as Dave said, putting it in the queue... but the P13 driver is being discontinued.
Can we start Reference Project #2? 😀 Possibilities:
The Seas 27TDFC tweeter seems to have a following and appears to be easy to cross over...
And keeping things in the spirit of the P13, any of the Seas CA12, CA15, or CA18 could work. And Madisound sells shielding cups.
Hmmm... the CA12RCY, vented f3 at 75Hz in a 2L enclosure... where was that thread about a BO$E
slayer? 😀 cheesehead
What are the new replacements for the P17W and P13W and are they audibly as good or better than the original ?
Cheers.
Cheers.
contour said:
Walt
See, I left the best 'till last.... the AR series are nice crossovers and so easy to work with. You've tried 3 of the crossovers for this speaker, the single cap, standard series and the AR series, how would you rate each one? What you are now doing is one of the aims of this little speaker is to tweak and try different things to hear what the differences are.
cheesehead
Yep it's a shame that the P13 is going to disappear but there are heaps of good drivers out there. Maybe builders can chime in with a list of alternatives with similar sonics and ability. The SEAS 27TDFC is a fanastic tweeter and just completed a speaker today using that tweeter and a Peerless 830875 Nomex.... nice combo.... and AR crossover.
ashok
There is no direct replacements for the P17 or P13. The closest from Tymphany would be the Peerless HDS drivers.
Re: But the Vifa drivers are going away!
Blimey, you lot know how to panic a girl! I'd cut up a pile of little bits of MDF, only to read that the drivers I'm basing everything on are gone. Luckily Wagner had stock of the P13s and D26TG35 (but not TG45), so I snapped up a pair of each today.
Cheers,
Suzy
PS: Thanks for putting up such a detailed design.
cheesehead said:The P13 project looks great, and I was thinking of, as Dave said, putting it in the queue... but the P13 driver is being discontinued.
Blimey, you lot know how to panic a girl! I'd cut up a pile of little bits of MDF, only to read that the drivers I'm basing everything on are gone. Luckily Wagner had stock of the P13s and D26TG35 (but not TG45), so I snapped up a pair of each today.
Cheers,
Suzy
PS: Thanks for putting up such a detailed design.
P13 design update
I have only just updated the design so it digs deeper to get some mid bass. The Wiki will be updated in the next week or so.
The crossover used was the 6R8, 0.7mH, 3.3uF (see post #179)as I had a 3.3uF Mundorf Supreme that needed a home. The inductor was a Solen 1.6mm and a 10W non inductive resistor.
I'm very happy with the update as has made the little speaker a bit more useable.
I have only just updated the design so it digs deeper to get some mid bass. The Wiki will be updated in the next week or so.
The crossover used was the 6R8, 0.7mH, 3.3uF (see post #179)as I had a 3.3uF Mundorf Supreme that needed a home. The inductor was a Solen 1.6mm and a 10W non inductive resistor.
I'm very happy with the update as has made the little speaker a bit more useable.
Attachments
Rabbitz _ Hi
Can you email me with a price to get a couple of the tweeters across the ditch to me in wellington NZ? I have the p13 and this looks like a good project
Cheers, mark
Can you email me with a price to get a couple of the tweeters across the ditch to me in wellington NZ? I have the p13 and this looks like a good project
Cheers, mark
Re: P13 design update
Geez, that'd be right! I'll press on with the original sized box, as it's more suitable for the desk in my study.
Have you thought of useing the P17 mid-bass? If you're doing a bigger enclosure anyway, that strikes me as a pretty good way to get better bass.
Cheers,
Suzy
rabbitz said:
Geez, that'd be right! I'll press on with the original sized box, as it's more suitable for the desk in my study.
Have you thought of useing the P17 mid-bass? If you're doing a bigger enclosure anyway, that strikes me as a pretty good way to get better bass.
Cheers,
Suzy
D1GGY
Send the enquiry via my website (see the WWW button).
suzyj
It's just an exercise in sqeezing a bit more out of the P13 in the spirit of this thread.
The original design was always just a starting point and spring board into the hobby. Something that could be tweaked, builders comparing notes, used as a reference for future projects due to the magic mids of the P13 and drivers used in other configurations such as the TLb.
Send the enquiry via my website (see the WWW button).
suzyj
It's just an exercise in sqeezing a bit more out of the P13 in the spirit of this thread.
The original design was always just a starting point and spring board into the hobby. Something that could be tweaked, builders comparing notes, used as a reference for future projects due to the magic mids of the P13 and drivers used in other configurations such as the TLb.
Re: Re: P13 design update
We are sitting on P13W + tweeter & have another tweeter + the midrange oriented version of the P13 + 4 PSB/VIFA P17 OEMs -- were thinking of a set of 4 speakers with a 3-way tower for the big guys & the refs for the small guys. P17 doesn't do the mids like the P13 does.
dave
suzyj said:
We are sitting on P13W + tweeter & have another tweeter + the midrange oriented version of the P13 + 4 PSB/VIFA P17 OEMs -- were thinking of a set of 4 speakers with a 3-way tower for the big guys & the refs for the small guys. P17 doesn't do the mids like the P13 does.
dave