The 2mil alum cones ride again...
...this time, Successfully. *S*
Turns out, the mids from those POS speakers had 1/2" dia. vc with ferrofluid. Pretty 'advanced' for something that came from a speaker that wasn't impressive overall.
Fills in the high end on the back pair of the array; didn't especially want them to 'compete' with the lower unit, which they don't seem to. And they certainly act like a Walsh....
Let's see what the woofers can do with paper cones...😉
...this time, Successfully. *S*
Turns out, the mids from those POS speakers had 1/2" dia. vc with ferrofluid. Pretty 'advanced' for something that came from a speaker that wasn't impressive overall.
Fills in the high end on the back pair of the array; didn't especially want them to 'compete' with the lower unit, which they don't seem to. And they certainly act like a Walsh....
Let's see what the woofers can do with paper cones...😉
Attachments
Thanks for the update and the pics 🙂
What kind of paper are you going to try?
I have a sheet of Kapton heading my way...reportedly good for winding a voice coil on.
"It's just the normal noises in here..."
Happy to oblige....since I've not met any true audioholics here in AVL, I've got to show this stuff to Someone that can appreciate what it's about...*G*
The paper I've chosen is a 2.5 mil stock made by an Italian co. that's been around since the 1700's. 'Ell, Stradivarius probably used to wrap his violins in their stuff.*L* It's got a slight 'nubbly' texture to it, so I'll get to hear if that has any effect vs. a 'smooth' surface...
Kapton's been used on vc's for awhile now, due to it's high temp qualities. Wikipedia notes that it's subject to mechanical wear, although I've seen it used for planar elements; perhaps a variant that's tougher in that regard.
Meanwhile, I've prepped the cheapie woofers to receive the paper cones. 1 1/2" vc's...I'm going to make some 7 1/2" tall cones to test the 'crossover' therory re mid~bass that we've discussed...
The other project is to mount the V.2's above the V3.75 mids in an 'hourglass' config. re the cones (which are the same size in both). When I tried the reverse config, base to base, it seemed to create a dispersion that had a 'hole' in the middle, kind of a 'null zone'. I'm hoping that this will reverse that, and perhaps augment the field created...
The 'fly in the ointment' is that the V.2's are 4 ohms, the 3.75's are 12 ohms. Paired, I can either have 3 or 16, both of which aren't terribly typ. I'm going to opt for 3 and not crank the amp, even though it's got thermal cut-outs and I run fans. I'm not in the mood to go shopping for a new/used receiver...*L*
Happy to oblige....since I've not met any true audioholics here in AVL, I've got to show this stuff to Someone that can appreciate what it's about...*G*
The paper I've chosen is a 2.5 mil stock made by an Italian co. that's been around since the 1700's. 'Ell, Stradivarius probably used to wrap his violins in their stuff.*L* It's got a slight 'nubbly' texture to it, so I'll get to hear if that has any effect vs. a 'smooth' surface...
Kapton's been used on vc's for awhile now, due to it's high temp qualities. Wikipedia notes that it's subject to mechanical wear, although I've seen it used for planar elements; perhaps a variant that's tougher in that regard.
Meanwhile, I've prepped the cheapie woofers to receive the paper cones. 1 1/2" vc's...I'm going to make some 7 1/2" tall cones to test the 'crossover' therory re mid~bass that we've discussed...
The other project is to mount the V.2's above the V3.75 mids in an 'hourglass' config. re the cones (which are the same size in both). When I tried the reverse config, base to base, it seemed to create a dispersion that had a 'hole' in the middle, kind of a 'null zone'. I'm hoping that this will reverse that, and perhaps augment the field created...
The 'fly in the ointment' is that the V.2's are 4 ohms, the 3.75's are 12 ohms. Paired, I can either have 3 or 16, both of which aren't terribly typ. I'm going to opt for 3 and not crank the amp, even though it's got thermal cut-outs and I run fans. I'm not in the mood to go shopping for a new/used receiver...*L*
Attachments
Temp mounting on the existing bases, some basic 'wiring'....
...and it works. Plays quite loud, no vc heating, the Sony's not complaining, no noticeable heat coming from the fans....
...and the dispersion is just like I thought it would be.
I've noticed a difference between sitting and standing when playing a single pair. With a doubled pair like this, it doesn't exist anymore....
The sound coming from the base of the top pair still sounds 'honky' to me. Stuffing it with some polyfill helps, but if blocked off with some manual dexterity (my hand), it 'firms up' appreciably...
More later as play ensues....😉
...and it works. Plays quite loud, no vc heating, the Sony's not complaining, no noticeable heat coming from the fans....
...and the dispersion is just like I thought it would be.
I've noticed a difference between sitting and standing when playing a single pair. With a doubled pair like this, it doesn't exist anymore....
The sound coming from the base of the top pair still sounds 'honky' to me. Stuffing it with some polyfill helps, but if blocked off with some manual dexterity (my hand), it 'firms up' appreciably...
More later as play ensues....😉
paper or plastic?
Glad to see your experiments proceeding...
Interested to hear your take on paper, the classic material.
Thought I would try polyimide, since some prefer it to titanium in compression drivers.
Seems like I'm hearing voice coil bobbin resonance (possibly caused by the large impedance change from aluminum to paper/plastic). Going to swap to an aluminum cone to see if that solves it, and I hope it does because that would simply imply matching bobbin/cone materials.
The 'honk problemo' is a subject all in itself...one problem at a time (yeah, right). 😱
Glad to see your experiments proceeding...
Interested to hear your take on paper, the classic material.
Thought I would try polyimide, since some prefer it to titanium in compression drivers.
Seems like I'm hearing voice coil bobbin resonance (possibly caused by the large impedance change from aluminum to paper/plastic). Going to swap to an aluminum cone to see if that solves it, and I hope it does because that would simply imply matching bobbin/cone materials.
The 'honk problemo' is a subject all in itself...one problem at a time (yeah, right). 😱
I hear resonances all the time...tinnitus and the voices in my head....*L* 😉
Winding your own vc's ought to be a good test of one's patience and steadiness of hand. That and matching the dia. tolerances...good variable factors in that pursuit. *S*
Yeah, the 'honk problem'....the honk in the speakers, the honkys in the street, just can't seem to avoid it anymore....*mock sigh*
There's a group of cone materials I'd like to test drive; papers, plastics, metals. Candidate motors will be an issue, but I'm thinking of haunting auto junkyards for volunteers to keep the costs down. The other issue will be the plethora of speakers that will come from that, I can see where I'll be wading through a cone forest soon enough.
Got to find a means of 'cone swapping', a 'reversible' adhesive that won't make me break out in some ghastly skin malady or require a biohazard cabinet...*L*
Winding your own vc's ought to be a good test of one's patience and steadiness of hand. That and matching the dia. tolerances...good variable factors in that pursuit. *S*
Yeah, the 'honk problem'....the honk in the speakers, the honkys in the street, just can't seem to avoid it anymore....*mock sigh*
There's a group of cone materials I'd like to test drive; papers, plastics, metals. Candidate motors will be an issue, but I'm thinking of haunting auto junkyards for volunteers to keep the costs down. The other issue will be the plethora of speakers that will come from that, I can see where I'll be wading through a cone forest soon enough.
Got to find a means of 'cone swapping', a 'reversible' adhesive that won't make me break out in some ghastly skin malady or require a biohazard cabinet...*L*
Oh, did I imply that I was? 😀
Naah, I'm trying to build a ford, not a mercedes...🙂
One of, kind of like wine tasting 😉
High are crisp, clean, and loud. Mids are dynamic.Transparent.
Extremely challenging to fabricate!
Only thing is, limitation in how much power the cone could withstand, no doubt.
The cone only weighs 1.5g...
Ah, sounds like you've hit an arterial, to butcher a phrase...*G* Or, perhaps better, a promising combination. And anything that'll render the qualities we're searching for will likely require care in fabrication. Ask Mags about his project, or Solhaga or Bandsei about their diy ribbons. The more care and concern we invest hopefully will yield the acoustic dividends sought. *S*
I'm impressed and inspired by your efforts. I'm going to try a pair of 'baseless' units in this next iteration from what you've reported to arrive at the 'high mid/tweet' that I'm looking for. This with a 'low mid/high bass' that I'm currently running, albeit with addition of better motors/improved cone materials/improved surround material/improved base configuration with a sub might prove to be a 'killa combo'.
Or, at least, that's my plan....and I'm sticking to it. 😉
If you want more volume, or 'apparent' volume, Multiply The Units. That's what I've noticed with my array of 4, and it's just been made apparent to me with the 'stacked pair' that I just posted the pic of. Even running them by themselves, without the 'rear' V.3's, that the 'field' is augmented in the same way if you were to run 2 woofers vs. one.
True, making multiples multiplies the effort to produce as near as possible exact duplicates, but I know you'll be blown away by what happens. My 4 V.3's are crude... the cone material's too thick, the motors are salvage, and the balance of them could stand to be improved upon. but at the end of the day....
I hardly listen to my regular speakers anymore...and I've been a fan of my Heil's since Day One. I miss their insane clarity and effortlessness....
But...
The best analogy I can come up with, it it's like sex.
Once you've tried it, it's hard to imagine life without it.
Now...if THAT doesn't drive you back to your workspace, I'm really tempted to send you a pair of mine. A 'matched' (sic) pair will inspire. A set of 4 will glue your tush to the couch as you go through your music library, listening 'till you think your ears ought to be bruised by now...
*L* C'mon, Gar...build another one. Trust me, you'll love it.
You wouldn't think of playing just ONE of your ML's, right? *L*
(Gawd, I feel like such a nag...shoot me now. *LOL*)
I'm impressed and inspired by your efforts. I'm going to try a pair of 'baseless' units in this next iteration from what you've reported to arrive at the 'high mid/tweet' that I'm looking for. This with a 'low mid/high bass' that I'm currently running, albeit with addition of better motors/improved cone materials/improved surround material/improved base configuration with a sub might prove to be a 'killa combo'.
Or, at least, that's my plan....and I'm sticking to it. 😉
If you want more volume, or 'apparent' volume, Multiply The Units. That's what I've noticed with my array of 4, and it's just been made apparent to me with the 'stacked pair' that I just posted the pic of. Even running them by themselves, without the 'rear' V.3's, that the 'field' is augmented in the same way if you were to run 2 woofers vs. one.
True, making multiples multiplies the effort to produce as near as possible exact duplicates, but I know you'll be blown away by what happens. My 4 V.3's are crude... the cone material's too thick, the motors are salvage, and the balance of them could stand to be improved upon. but at the end of the day....
I hardly listen to my regular speakers anymore...and I've been a fan of my Heil's since Day One. I miss their insane clarity and effortlessness....
But...
The best analogy I can come up with, it it's like sex.
Once you've tried it, it's hard to imagine life without it.
Now...if THAT doesn't drive you back to your workspace, I'm really tempted to send you a pair of mine. A 'matched' (sic) pair will inspire. A set of 4 will glue your tush to the couch as you go through your music library, listening 'till you think your ears ought to be bruised by now...
*L* C'mon, Gar...build another one. Trust me, you'll love it.
You wouldn't think of playing just ONE of your ML's, right? *L*
(Gawd, I feel like such a nag...shoot me now. *LOL*)
Ha ha, you have a good point Jerry! I think I'm so conservative (in a way) as to not waste a drop of glue. But, having a matched pair to listen to would add another dimension, me thinks...and it might be worth the extra...
Thanks
Thanks
Hopefully an easier material to work with will be discovered. Aluminum foil of that thickness is just a bear to work with.
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*G* Don't think of it as 'wasting glue'...consider it an 'investment' in something you admire. You're making a very exclusive object that you're well aware of how much the prices are. And,surprise, it not only works but it's doing it acceptably nicely.
I needn't say more, and I'll shut up about it. 😉
Easier material....you've been there (paper). Superior dynamics require exotic materials, and you've already made at least one, and nicely too IMHO. Now that you've had some 'practice', a second shouldn't be as difficult since you're experienced as to what to do and what Not to do. And you have everything at hand, except perhaps a second motor.
Oh, Just Do It. I'm starting to feel like your parents...*LOL*
"Clean your room. Take out the garbage. Marry that girl if you've been doing THAT...."
Nag, nag, nag....*LOL*
I needn't say more, and I'll shut up about it. 😉
Easier material....you've been there (paper). Superior dynamics require exotic materials, and you've already made at least one, and nicely too IMHO. Now that you've had some 'practice', a second shouldn't be as difficult since you're experienced as to what to do and what Not to do. And you have everything at hand, except perhaps a second motor.
Oh, Just Do It. I'm starting to feel like your parents...*LOL*
"Clean your room. Take out the garbage. Marry that girl if you've been doing THAT...."
Nag, nag, nag....*LOL*
