the law : here is the copy of a post the jjasniew wrote in february:
Screen shots
Hi all,
I'm hoping to participate here a little more, so here's some screen shots of my "cement half A to half B" projector project. Nicole Kidmann from "Moulan Rouge"...
http://pws.ihpc.net/joejas/projector/NK1.JPG
There's also NK2, NK3...NK6. This is a Nview Z350 at 1024X768 atop a Dukane 4003. Appx 56" diagonal. Still images taken with an Olympus D340 at 1024X768, handheld.
The setup has massive pixel smearing at 60hz refresh, better but not perfect at 75 hz, however watchable.
I'm still thinkin about a latest technology 15" LCD panel monitor with the backlight gutted out, atop the same dukane 4003. Anyone care to speculate on the possibility? Anyone actually done it?
Anyway, thought I'd share.
__________________
Joe Jasniewski
Screen shots
Hi all,
I'm hoping to participate here a little more, so here's some screen shots of my "cement half A to half B" projector project. Nicole Kidmann from "Moulan Rouge"...
http://pws.ihpc.net/joejas/projector/NK1.JPG
There's also NK2, NK3...NK6. This is a Nview Z350 at 1024X768 atop a Dukane 4003. Appx 56" diagonal. Still images taken with an Olympus D340 at 1024X768, handheld.
The setup has massive pixel smearing at 60hz refresh, better but not perfect at 75 hz, however watchable.
I'm still thinkin about a latest technology 15" LCD panel monitor with the backlight gutted out, atop the same dukane 4003. Anyone care to speculate on the possibility? Anyone actually done it?
Anyway, thought I'd share.
__________________
Joe Jasniewski
good LCD?
Hey guys,
Found this -- maybe someone might be interested in it.
13" LCD monitor refurb for $200
http://www.eacer.com/eacer/ref133lcdmon.html
Hope this helps someone.
Hey guys,
Found this -- maybe someone might be interested in it.
13" LCD monitor refurb for $200
http://www.eacer.com/eacer/ref133lcdmon.html
Hope this helps someone.
Thanks for posting the link, gav. You beat me to it! I plan on updating my site soon. Hopefully.
I would consider the light from this particular MV lamp to be very white...not as much blue as the LOA, but definitely not red. Unfortunately, no data was supplied about what type of bulb is included, but it is a 175watt clear MV bulb (not the white coated type).
Now it all comes down to a reflector. A parabolic reflector would give parallel rays, which would be nice. BUT, an elliptical reflector could potentially converge light rays toward a projection lens--similar to what a fresnel does. This would require some careful crafting, but I think it would be worth a try. It would be nice to eliminate the fresnel.
If I could find an Excel file or program that would let me enter in variables, such as size of the ellipse, focal point, etc., I could print it out as a template, cut an identical elliptical groove in two pieces of metal and insert another piece of metal into the two grooves. This would hold the elliptical shape. Cut a hole in one side of the side plates, and PRESTO--instant elliptical reflector!
Does anyone know of a website for calculation of a focal point of an ellipse? I haven't found one yet, but I'll keep looking.
I would consider the light from this particular MV lamp to be very white...not as much blue as the LOA, but definitely not red. Unfortunately, no data was supplied about what type of bulb is included, but it is a 175watt clear MV bulb (not the white coated type).
Now it all comes down to a reflector. A parabolic reflector would give parallel rays, which would be nice. BUT, an elliptical reflector could potentially converge light rays toward a projection lens--similar to what a fresnel does. This would require some careful crafting, but I think it would be worth a try. It would be nice to eliminate the fresnel.
If I could find an Excel file or program that would let me enter in variables, such as size of the ellipse, focal point, etc., I could print it out as a template, cut an identical elliptical groove in two pieces of metal and insert another piece of metal into the two grooves. This would hold the elliptical shape. Cut a hole in one side of the side plates, and PRESTO--instant elliptical reflector!
Does anyone know of a website for calculation of a focal point of an ellipse? I haven't found one yet, but I'll keep looking.
OMFG
!@$@#$#$#%%!$ HOLY CRAP!!!! The answer has been stareing RIGHT AT MY FACE! I am an electriction and I have installed about 1409872 of these in banks across texas thier called parabolic lenses for 2X4 layin florescent lights you can get them at home depot real cheep they look like little squares that are very shiny and makes the light travel only in one direction so if you use LOAs you dont have to worry about the washing out effect. All you have to do is place the lens about 2-4 inches in front of the bulb and it is like a large spot and non of the light scatters every where. I cant belive I didnt think of this I know for a fact this should work and for a cost of about $10 for a 4'X2' lens you cant go wrong.
!@$@#$#$#%%!$ HOLY CRAP!!!! The answer has been stareing RIGHT AT MY FACE! I am an electriction and I have installed about 1409872 of these in banks across texas thier called parabolic lenses for 2X4 layin florescent lights you can get them at home depot real cheep they look like little squares that are very shiny and makes the light travel only in one direction so if you use LOAs you dont have to worry about the washing out effect. All you have to do is place the lens about 2-4 inches in front of the bulb and it is like a large spot and non of the light scatters every where. I cant belive I didnt think of this I know for a fact this should work and for a cost of about $10 for a 4'X2' lens you cant go wrong.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Ok here is what it looks like and heres a link to a site that makes several different kinds.
http://www.rrplastics.com/Products/index.html
Sounds interesting, keep us posted 🙂
One question about the lens, on surplusshed, the fujinon throw distance is confusing:
lens projects a large image in a short distance. f/0.95
the delta lens: f/1.0
What units are the 1.0 and 0.95 measurements in?. I just want the lens with the longest throwing distance. 🙂
One more thing, fender4, what kind of temperature does the Mercury bulb create?
cheers.
One question about the lens, on surplusshed, the fujinon throw distance is confusing:
lens projects a large image in a short distance. f/0.95
the delta lens: f/1.0
What units are the 1.0 and 0.95 measurements in?. I just want the lens with the longest throwing distance. 🙂
One more thing, fender4, what kind of temperature does the Mercury bulb create?
cheers.
thelaw:
Do a google search on f-number to resolve the different explanations on the f/0.95 and f/1.0.
In a nutshell, the two numbers indicate that the Fujinon has a wider opening than the Delta. Compare that to two tubes passing water and you can conclude that light will certainly pass more quickly through the Fujinon.
Stay away from both lenses since they won't give you the long throw you are looking for - unless you are trying an IMAX size screen. By the way, most of the overhead projectors have lenses with focal length > 300mm; contrast that with the Fuji and Delta's 90mm.
Do a google search on f-number to resolve the different explanations on the f/0.95 and f/1.0.
In a nutshell, the two numbers indicate that the Fujinon has a wider opening than the Delta. Compare that to two tubes passing water and you can conclude that light will certainly pass more quickly through the Fujinon.
Stay away from both lenses since they won't give you the long throw you are looking for - unless you are trying an IMAX size screen. By the way, most of the overhead projectors have lenses with focal length > 300mm; contrast that with the Fuji and Delta's 90mm.
Im not really too bothered by how much throw i get, but longer would be nice 🙂, do you know where i could get a cheap lens for a projection kind of purpose? i just really need a lens similar to the actual ones used in lcd projection, preferably in or able to ship to the UK 🙁
cheers 4 your help
cheers 4 your help
thelaw:
I tried the big lens from an old Mark Scheffel 20 x 50 binoculars I bought in the UK a while back. That baby performs nicely as a projection lens; so I guess you can look for a 1"-2" (~ 25-50mm) lens with a focal length between 180 - 320mm.
I tried the big lens from an old Mark Scheffel 20 x 50 binoculars I bought in the UK a while back. That baby performs nicely as a projection lens; so I guess you can look for a 1"-2" (~ 25-50mm) lens with a focal length between 180 - 320mm.
Hi,
I've currently got my eye on the "KODAK EKTAGRAPHIC FF ZOOM PROJECTION LENS" at surplusshed.
"100mm to 150mm f3.5 Kodak Ektagraphic FF (flat field ) zoom projection lens. Made for the Kodak Ektagraphic and other standard 35mm carousel slide projectors. 2" diameter front element. Coated lens."
Zoom function could be pretty handy for quick focusing. I have used an ektalite slide projector b4 and remember this lens and its distances, from what i can remember its just the kind of throw distance im looking 4.
What do u think ?
P.S. Anyone have any experience with condenser lenses?
cheers,
I've currently got my eye on the "KODAK EKTAGRAPHIC FF ZOOM PROJECTION LENS" at surplusshed.
"100mm to 150mm f3.5 Kodak Ektagraphic FF (flat field ) zoom projection lens. Made for the Kodak Ektagraphic and other standard 35mm carousel slide projectors. 2" diameter front element. Coated lens."
Zoom function could be pretty handy for quick focusing. I have used an ektalite slide projector b4 and remember this lens and its distances, from what i can remember its just the kind of throw distance im looking 4.
What do u think ?
P.S. Anyone have any experience with condenser lenses?
cheers,
the law:
I still think the issue is whether this "regular" projection lens can provide full coverage of your panel within 2x its focal range.
I still think the issue is whether this "regular" projection lens can provide full coverage of your panel within 2x its focal range.
3m panel
hey guys,
i have decided to sell my 3m 4080 panel because i have purchased a sharp qa-1500 (yes!) if anyone would like to buy it, please email me at jaysnoogans2@attbi.com
i would like to sell it for around $40 U.S. but i will take lower offers
regards,
Aaron
hey guys,
i have decided to sell my 3m 4080 panel because i have purchased a sharp qa-1500 (yes!) if anyone would like to buy it, please email me at jaysnoogans2@attbi.com
i would like to sell it for around $40 U.S. but i will take lower offers
regards,
Aaron
mercury vapor lamp
fender4
all I know, CRI (color rendering index) is one of important factor to choose projector lamp, CRI close to 100 is the best. If I'm not wrong Mercury Vapor lamp has CRI only 20. But since you already have it, I would like to know how's the projected image look like? Is the color balance of the image seems right?
thank's
fender4
all I know, CRI (color rendering index) is one of important factor to choose projector lamp, CRI close to 100 is the best. If I'm not wrong Mercury Vapor lamp has CRI only 20. But since you already have it, I would like to know how's the projected image look like? Is the color balance of the image seems right?
thank's
Marklar
About the diffuser. I came across this couple of months ago, and yes it will drastically increase
the image sharpness when used with a LOA light due to the exact reason you stated. The draw back is the very large decrease in the amount of lumens that get through the diffuser and onto the screen.
I used this very diffuser in the rear projection tv that I built when starting this project. I used it to eliminate hot spots and scatter.
I highly recommend it for anyone that is building a rear projection tv.
Keep at it all, we are getting there.....
tim
About the diffuser. I came across this couple of months ago, and yes it will drastically increase
the image sharpness when used with a LOA light due to the exact reason you stated. The draw back is the very large decrease in the amount of lumens that get through the diffuser and onto the screen.
I used this very diffuser in the rear projection tv that I built when starting this project. I used it to eliminate hot spots and scatter.
I highly recommend it for anyone that is building a rear projection tv.
Keep at it all, we are getting there.....
tim
hi all
Whelp, I've been accumulating parts the past few weeks. I've done a small amount of experimenting, and I've dropped $55 into the project. So far, I've got:
*Fujinon Projection Lens (surplusshed)
*5 7/8" Plano-Convex Lens (surplusshed)
*large square fresnel lens I tore from an old overhead projector, as well as a nice high quality fan, and the lenses and mirrors from it.
*A 250W lamp that I'll probably use for testing that was in the overhead projector.
*A 500W halogen work light (8,250 lumens), that I bought for $8.99, and I can get replacement 500W halogen bulbs that are 11,000 lumen locally for $7 (dont know if this is really going to be my final light source, but its at least something to do serious testing with, until I find something with a better color temperature, or something more efficient. 500W is a lot).
*an interesting concave mirror, about 4.5" in diameter, that was used in a 35MM projector. When you hold it up to a light, polarized side facing away from you, all you can see is red light come through. When you face the polarized side to you, and bounce light off it, it seens as though only bright whites, and blueish tints reflect back at you. Very, very interesting. I might disassemble my work light, use the power supply, and somehow mount the halogen bulb at this mirror's focal point and see what happens. I might get a concentrated beam that has the color temperature that I want. But, I have a feeling, I'll lose a lot of light.
Thats all I have so far. I've been keeping my eye on several Ebay auctions for an LCD panel.
Questions for you all:
1.) If I can get it working well enough, this thing will take place of my 32" TV. Is there some kind of *inexpensive* Cable tv / antennae receiver that you can buy with channel up&down functions and a remote that has standard composite video and stereo outs?
2.) Rather than worrying about inputs on an LCD panel, what if I just bought something like the TVOne TV-4000 XGA Theater receiver ( Here )-- its a very inexpensive line doubler with S-video, cable, Composite, and VGA inputs, and a single VGA output. It comes with a remote, and can be had for $119 at a site that I know about. Would that be a good idea? or should I just get a panel with S-video and Composite inputs(ending up with my first question).
3. Do the S-video and composite inputs on most overhead projection LCD panels do a good job of changing the signal?
4. About the light source -- Halogen gets hot, and so does the small test bulb that I've been playing with. What are some techniques you are using to minimize heat? I'm considering several fans -- one by the light source itself, another two by the LCD panel. Should this be enough(coupled with a casing that can 'breathe' well) ? Should I be that concerned with Infrared/UV Rays that I should spend the $$ for cold mirrors? I have no idea if the mirrors I pulled off of the old overhead projector are cold mirrors or not, I highly doubt it! However, the old overhead projector I got these off of had a 16-grey shade LCD panel built into it. It was a Dukane Model 850. There was no special cooling features to it -- just a single fan on the light source. That would be sweet if the mirror I got (about 7" by 4") is a cold mirror. Its mounted on a piece of aluminum -- I think its somehow adhered onto it with something, I tried to pull it off with zero luck. Who knows, it might be mounted on aluminum in order to disperse heat, it might be a cold mirror, man, that would be one awesome jackpot.
I dont want to go the overhead route. I want a self-contained projector. My new plan bounces light source off of this mirror @45degree angle, and then to a fresnel, then LCD, then, projection lens (whether i use the fujinon, plano-convex, or the one from the overhead).
Whelp, I've been accumulating parts the past few weeks. I've done a small amount of experimenting, and I've dropped $55 into the project. So far, I've got:
*Fujinon Projection Lens (surplusshed)
*5 7/8" Plano-Convex Lens (surplusshed)
*large square fresnel lens I tore from an old overhead projector, as well as a nice high quality fan, and the lenses and mirrors from it.
*A 250W lamp that I'll probably use for testing that was in the overhead projector.
*A 500W halogen work light (8,250 lumens), that I bought for $8.99, and I can get replacement 500W halogen bulbs that are 11,000 lumen locally for $7 (dont know if this is really going to be my final light source, but its at least something to do serious testing with, until I find something with a better color temperature, or something more efficient. 500W is a lot).
*an interesting concave mirror, about 4.5" in diameter, that was used in a 35MM projector. When you hold it up to a light, polarized side facing away from you, all you can see is red light come through. When you face the polarized side to you, and bounce light off it, it seens as though only bright whites, and blueish tints reflect back at you. Very, very interesting. I might disassemble my work light, use the power supply, and somehow mount the halogen bulb at this mirror's focal point and see what happens. I might get a concentrated beam that has the color temperature that I want. But, I have a feeling, I'll lose a lot of light.
Thats all I have so far. I've been keeping my eye on several Ebay auctions for an LCD panel.
Questions for you all:
1.) If I can get it working well enough, this thing will take place of my 32" TV. Is there some kind of *inexpensive* Cable tv / antennae receiver that you can buy with channel up&down functions and a remote that has standard composite video and stereo outs?
2.) Rather than worrying about inputs on an LCD panel, what if I just bought something like the TVOne TV-4000 XGA Theater receiver ( Here )-- its a very inexpensive line doubler with S-video, cable, Composite, and VGA inputs, and a single VGA output. It comes with a remote, and can be had for $119 at a site that I know about. Would that be a good idea? or should I just get a panel with S-video and Composite inputs(ending up with my first question).
3. Do the S-video and composite inputs on most overhead projection LCD panels do a good job of changing the signal?
4. About the light source -- Halogen gets hot, and so does the small test bulb that I've been playing with. What are some techniques you are using to minimize heat? I'm considering several fans -- one by the light source itself, another two by the LCD panel. Should this be enough(coupled with a casing that can 'breathe' well) ? Should I be that concerned with Infrared/UV Rays that I should spend the $$ for cold mirrors? I have no idea if the mirrors I pulled off of the old overhead projector are cold mirrors or not, I highly doubt it! However, the old overhead projector I got these off of had a 16-grey shade LCD panel built into it. It was a Dukane Model 850. There was no special cooling features to it -- just a single fan on the light source. That would be sweet if the mirror I got (about 7" by 4") is a cold mirror. Its mounted on a piece of aluminum -- I think its somehow adhered onto it with something, I tried to pull it off with zero luck. Who knows, it might be mounted on aluminum in order to disperse heat, it might be a cold mirror, man, that would be one awesome jackpot.
I dont want to go the overhead route. I want a self-contained projector. My new plan bounces light source off of this mirror @45degree angle, and then to a fresnel, then LCD, then, projection lens (whether i use the fujinon, plano-convex, or the one from the overhead).
Composite, S-Video or VGA?
From my experience;
- 640X480 panels seem to convert the comp and S video okay. However, the scaler circuitry may/may not "de-interlace" the signal, wheras one of the tuners with VGA outputs would do this.
- The higher res panels I've had only show an image on a portion of the total screen! It's even a different amount for composite and s-video! You lose a lot of light that way and have this stupid "dark band" around or on one side of the image...
- IMHO, if you have a SVGA or XGA panel, it's better to drive it with a PC or one of the tuners with VGA outputs, so that ALL of the pixels are used to form the image.
I'm very interested in the construction of your OHP with the embedded LCD panel. I had the thought that one could replace the lower glass in a OHP panel with a cut-to-size fresnel, then drop it into an existing OHP. This would collect ALL the light from the source (at a shorter focal length, of course, than the original setup) and put it through the LCD element.
Wheras an ordinary setup you probably have half the light just hitting the bottom of the projector panel, with some part of it making it's way up through the the LCD where it does some good...
I imagine that the Dukane people realized this and came up with the model 850 and others (like the ones with the Infocus color panels embedded) because they could get an edge on the competition, by providing a brighter image that you can get by simply plopping a panel atop an ordinary OHP - where a lot of the light is wasted, as I've observed.
Too bad you're "not going the OHP route". You probably have an ideal system to start with - just replace the worthless B&W panel part with the guts from something like a nice Sharp QA-1600. If done right, you'd probably be ahead of all but the guys with the 7-8K lumen metal halide OHPs; where you brute-force the light through the panel - and half the ^&*()%$# light is lost just hitting the back of the projector panel's case!
If the Dukane has the 3" lens / mirror up top (like a 4000/4003), it should work fine - no need to go out and buy something else.
If you could provide a picture of the Dukane 850's LCD panel with the fresnel arrangement, it'd be quite informative!!!
From my experience;
- 640X480 panels seem to convert the comp and S video okay. However, the scaler circuitry may/may not "de-interlace" the signal, wheras one of the tuners with VGA outputs would do this.
- The higher res panels I've had only show an image on a portion of the total screen! It's even a different amount for composite and s-video! You lose a lot of light that way and have this stupid "dark band" around or on one side of the image...
- IMHO, if you have a SVGA or XGA panel, it's better to drive it with a PC or one of the tuners with VGA outputs, so that ALL of the pixels are used to form the image.
I'm very interested in the construction of your OHP with the embedded LCD panel. I had the thought that one could replace the lower glass in a OHP panel with a cut-to-size fresnel, then drop it into an existing OHP. This would collect ALL the light from the source (at a shorter focal length, of course, than the original setup) and put it through the LCD element.
Wheras an ordinary setup you probably have half the light just hitting the bottom of the projector panel, with some part of it making it's way up through the the LCD where it does some good...
I imagine that the Dukane people realized this and came up with the model 850 and others (like the ones with the Infocus color panels embedded) because they could get an edge on the competition, by providing a brighter image that you can get by simply plopping a panel atop an ordinary OHP - where a lot of the light is wasted, as I've observed.
Too bad you're "not going the OHP route". You probably have an ideal system to start with - just replace the worthless B&W panel part with the guts from something like a nice Sharp QA-1600. If done right, you'd probably be ahead of all but the guys with the 7-8K lumen metal halide OHPs; where you brute-force the light through the panel - and half the ^&*()%$# light is lost just hitting the back of the projector panel's case!
If the Dukane has the 3" lens / mirror up top (like a 4000/4003), it should work fine - no need to go out and buy something else.
If you could provide a picture of the Dukane 850's LCD panel with the fresnel arrangement, it'd be quite informative!!!
Anyone have an infocus "cable wizard"?
Hi,
I need an infocus "cable wizard" or "cable wizard jr" connection diagram/schematic, for the PC to panel cable.
Anyone have one of these willing to pin it out for me?
Thanks!
Hi,
I need an infocus "cable wizard" or "cable wizard jr" connection diagram/schematic, for the PC to panel cable.
Anyone have one of these willing to pin it out for me?
Thanks!
Dukane 850
Well, the LCD panel was cracked, and not working when I got this thing. So, I ripped out the whole thing (messy glass, it was adhered to an aluminum plate /w a hole the size of the LCD). Basically, all the guts of the projector have been ripped out. I got the projector free (I work at a college IT department, it was down in storage, I noticed it there before, but didnt give a rats *** until I started getting interested in this project), I asked my boss about it, and he said "get it out of here" so I took it home.
I still have all the casing of it, and all the parts, it can all be put back together for the most part (except for the electronics from the LCD, I ripped those completely off and tossed them). I can post pictures, but, it would be easier for me to draw a little layout in photoshop. Give me a few minutes, and I'll post a reply /w a drawing.
Well, the LCD panel was cracked, and not working when I got this thing. So, I ripped out the whole thing (messy glass, it was adhered to an aluminum plate /w a hole the size of the LCD). Basically, all the guts of the projector have been ripped out. I got the projector free (I work at a college IT department, it was down in storage, I noticed it there before, but didnt give a rats *** until I started getting interested in this project), I asked my boss about it, and he said "get it out of here" so I took it home.
I still have all the casing of it, and all the parts, it can all be put back together for the most part (except for the electronics from the LCD, I ripped those completely off and tossed them). I can post pictures, but, it would be easier for me to draw a little layout in photoshop. Give me a few minutes, and I'll post a reply /w a drawing.
dukane 850
construction was remarkably simple.
construction was remarkably simple.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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