i'm still slowly developping plans for building a single unit with custom optics, instead of just using overhead projectors. i'd like to figure out how to get a zoom lense setup working, but i keep forgetting to go pickup the book i need to get.
thanks for all the lighitng links! they rock. i'm looking at EHG bulbs, which are 750 watt, 2000 hour bulbs snaggable for $20 with some shopping. I'd probably just use a decent sized concave mirror for a reflector on the back to keep moderate efficiency.
Also, the FFR and FFS bulbs look really nice, featuring 1000 watss, 800 hours and built in reflectors. 40,000 lumens. Hopefully i'll be able to leave the lights on when watching movies with these babies. I'm not sure if they'll give an even enough ligh desnity to be effective though.
color temp is low for all of these, but i dont mind the low color temp in my existing setup. unless anyone has better suggestion for bulbs of these class with better color balance?
i wish white LED's were brighter. must wait 10 years. hmm 16K by 9K resolution LCD panels by then too. cant wait. :-]
still havent found a good source for blower fans. besides this one that i just happened to have, most of them that i've found have really low CFM and or really high dB levels. ridiculous. we really need some effective methods of cooling these puppies.
i'd love to go for a nice silent water cooling setup, but theres nothing to water cool. quite annoying really.
anyone found new improved fresnel sources? is the quality of those "100 inch bigscreen tv" fresnels sufficient for light gathering?
I wanna try and find a friend whose got the capital to sink $1000 - $1400 into a really nice projector. Use a nice 1280 x 1024 17 inch LCD. Use FFR or EHG bulbs. Go for a nice computer controlled rail mounting system for all the components. Find some nice decent power ultra silent blower fans. Make something really pro, almost as a proof of concept.
Cant wait to get my LCD replacement back. *twiddle thumbs* Must recommence Dr Mario addiction. Unfortunately, my dorm here isnt deep enough to let me run a full sized widescreen image, room just not wide enough to put LCD where it'd have to be. Still rocks. Still cant wait.
thanks for all the lighitng links! they rock. i'm looking at EHG bulbs, which are 750 watt, 2000 hour bulbs snaggable for $20 with some shopping. I'd probably just use a decent sized concave mirror for a reflector on the back to keep moderate efficiency.
Also, the FFR and FFS bulbs look really nice, featuring 1000 watss, 800 hours and built in reflectors. 40,000 lumens. Hopefully i'll be able to leave the lights on when watching movies with these babies. I'm not sure if they'll give an even enough ligh desnity to be effective though.
color temp is low for all of these, but i dont mind the low color temp in my existing setup. unless anyone has better suggestion for bulbs of these class with better color balance?
i wish white LED's were brighter. must wait 10 years. hmm 16K by 9K resolution LCD panels by then too. cant wait. :-]
still havent found a good source for blower fans. besides this one that i just happened to have, most of them that i've found have really low CFM and or really high dB levels. ridiculous. we really need some effective methods of cooling these puppies.
i'd love to go for a nice silent water cooling setup, but theres nothing to water cool. quite annoying really.
anyone found new improved fresnel sources? is the quality of those "100 inch bigscreen tv" fresnels sufficient for light gathering?
I wanna try and find a friend whose got the capital to sink $1000 - $1400 into a really nice projector. Use a nice 1280 x 1024 17 inch LCD. Use FFR or EHG bulbs. Go for a nice computer controlled rail mounting system for all the components. Find some nice decent power ultra silent blower fans. Make something really pro, almost as a proof of concept.
Cant wait to get my LCD replacement back. *twiddle thumbs* Must recommence Dr Mario addiction. Unfortunately, my dorm here isnt deep enough to let me run a full sized widescreen image, room just not wide enough to put LCD where it'd have to be. Still rocks. Still cant wait.
I have had a look for bulbs and have decided to use a 650watt 240volt Halogen lamp from my projector, what is a good cheap source of cold mirrors? What should the colour temp be? Good work everyone, I have come up with the best design for my projector so it keeps evrything propely cooled! Could you simply put a series of say 5 panes evenly spaced of glass between the globe and fresnel and the glass will absorber the heat, and have a fan creating air circulation between the glass?
fans
Hello,
I've just been using a 5" plastic fan that I had sitting in my shop. I built my projector onto a pedestal. The interior of the pedestal is divided in half. The air flows up the back half, into the body of the projector, over the reflector(that I made out of roofing tin), between the light and the LCD, through the fan which is blowing down into the front half of the pedestal, and out the front by the floor. The interior of the front half of the pedestal where the air exhausts is covered with a thick, dark colored automotive type carpet. It insulates against noise and helps to absorb any leaking light. The fan is kind of loud, but when I put it in and sealed the box, it ended up being very quiet. You can't even hear it over the movie's soundtrack, even during quiet scenes. And, it keeps everything nice and cool.
Joel
Hello,
I've just been using a 5" plastic fan that I had sitting in my shop. I built my projector onto a pedestal. The interior of the pedestal is divided in half. The air flows up the back half, into the body of the projector, over the reflector(that I made out of roofing tin), between the light and the LCD, through the fan which is blowing down into the front half of the pedestal, and out the front by the floor. The interior of the front half of the pedestal where the air exhausts is covered with a thick, dark colored automotive type carpet. It insulates against noise and helps to absorb any leaking light. The fan is kind of loud, but when I put it in and sealed the box, it ended up being very quiet. You can't even hear it over the movie's soundtrack, even during quiet scenes. And, it keeps everything nice and cool.
Joel
Question: Does anyone have experience with the Sony PS1 LCD's for the PlayStation One gaming console? What's the resolution? Can the back be removed easily?
hey jquinn,
It sounds like your project is coming together nicely. Do you have any pics that you can post (of the projector and the image it produces)? Did you have any luck with the fluid inside the lens assembly?
Thanks for the link, Vince. Very interesting, especially the reflector section.
-f4
hey jquinn,
It sounds like your project is coming together nicely. Do you have any pics that you can post (of the projector and the image it produces)? Did you have any luck with the fluid inside the lens assembly?
Thanks for the link, Vince. Very interesting, especially the reflector section.
-f4
Sony screen
Hey f4,
I got one of the Sony screens, the one that is shaped like a circle(its at home and I'm at work, so I don't know the manufacturer), and everything comes off of the back very easily, but the shape of the driver board and the location of the ribbon cable means that the screen must be attatched at a 90 degree angle to the board. The board also sticks out past the screen about 1.25". Plus, I wasn't very happy with the way it looked once the image was projected. The brightness is adjustable, but even all the way up its really dark. Its not nearly as transmissive as the 5" screen I got from Parts Express. I don't know if any other screen parameters are adjustable, but the projected picture isn't very sharp and the reds seem to be over saturated. Its my opinion that this is not the right screen for this project.
On the liquid: If I can find some antifreeze or some de-icer that doesn't have any color added, I might be good-to-go.
I think it might be awhile before I can post any pictures of my project because I am a computer idiot, but I'm working on it.
My next post will be about a screen material that I think might be pretty good for our application.
Thanks,
Joel
Hey f4,
I got one of the Sony screens, the one that is shaped like a circle(its at home and I'm at work, so I don't know the manufacturer), and everything comes off of the back very easily, but the shape of the driver board and the location of the ribbon cable means that the screen must be attatched at a 90 degree angle to the board. The board also sticks out past the screen about 1.25". Plus, I wasn't very happy with the way it looked once the image was projected. The brightness is adjustable, but even all the way up its really dark. Its not nearly as transmissive as the 5" screen I got from Parts Express. I don't know if any other screen parameters are adjustable, but the projected picture isn't very sharp and the reds seem to be over saturated. Its my opinion that this is not the right screen for this project.
On the liquid: If I can find some antifreeze or some de-icer that doesn't have any color added, I might be good-to-go.
I think it might be awhile before I can post any pictures of my project because I am a computer idiot, but I'm working on it.
My next post will be about a screen material that I think might be pretty good for our application.
Thanks,
Joel
Canadian source for bulbs
HI guys,
Went out to Canadian Tire tonight and picked up a 500W halogen bulb that was rated for 11,000 Lumens! I went there looking for a fluorescent light source, but couldn't find any that actually printed how many lumens, etc. I still hope to pursuit it though, as it would be nice not to deal with so much heat.
The halogen light source is VERY bright. I can't even think about looking at it directly when it's on for fear of damaging my vision. The color was pretty good. Not as good as fluorescent, but close. Since the LCD is connected to my computer, I can adjust the RGB values in order to get the right color(which I didn't get a chance to do, due to the tape in my current setup smoking after a few minutes..). My plan is to get an overhead projector, and stick two of these bulbs in it, and a ton of fans. It should work great, and heat my house on cold days as well.
If anyone in Canada has any leads on low-temperature light sources, let me know!
Phil
HI guys,
Went out to Canadian Tire tonight and picked up a 500W halogen bulb that was rated for 11,000 Lumens! I went there looking for a fluorescent light source, but couldn't find any that actually printed how many lumens, etc. I still hope to pursuit it though, as it would be nice not to deal with so much heat.
The halogen light source is VERY bright. I can't even think about looking at it directly when it's on for fear of damaging my vision. The color was pretty good. Not as good as fluorescent, but close. Since the LCD is connected to my computer, I can adjust the RGB values in order to get the right color(which I didn't get a chance to do, due to the tape in my current setup smoking after a few minutes..). My plan is to get an overhead projector, and stick two of these bulbs in it, and a ton of fans. It should work great, and heat my house on cold days as well.
If anyone in Canada has any leads on low-temperature light sources, let me know! Phil
Pics
I just posted images of the first results. I've done some tuning since and should have a little better picture. I didn't have time to put any disctiptions, but will soon with updated images.http://www.geocities.com/zark5150/result.html
I just posted images of the first results. I've done some tuning since and should have a little better picture. I didn't have time to put any disctiptions, but will soon with updated images.http://www.geocities.com/zark5150/result.html
wow. you guys rock. those links are top notch.
nmb fans look pretty good, way better than the other crap i've been seeing. checking out
carley lamp's reflectors rock. exactly what i'm looking for. might search for something bigger if i end up ultiamtely getting a different bulb setup.
bulb searching: i've been using pureland supply for its pictures and then checking dons bulbs for more information. getting pretty far on my quest for the perfect bulb.
cooling: just remember how heat works. try and get rid of it before it becomes a problem.
lexan: iirc, lexan doesnt have the same heat blocking qualities as glass. and i know it has a lower melting point.
axeman: welcome to the 500 watt club! whoop! i cant wait till your projecting 6x11 images. i'm psyched for ya!
i too was considering dual bulbs, but i think the net heat produced, having to buy twice the replacement bulb factor and the difficulties in creating an even light distribution make it more worthwhile just to get a single brighter bulb:
if your serious (or seriously nuts), get a CYX. 2000 watts, 60,000 lumens. 250 hours. Can be got for $45, which aint that bad. but you'll find no better bulb.
CYV's are also pretty nice, same style thing at 1000 watt and 28500 lumens.
EGJ's are decent, but weird socket. 1000 watts, 400 hours, $30. 27500 lumens even. pretty cost effective in terms of lamp replacement.
EHF are pretty nice. 750 watts, 300 hours, 20,000 lumen. not much better than what i'm using now though. more light would be good.
i'd like more info on the EJD. 180 volts, but 33,000 lumens for 1000 watts. couldnt find life expectancy though.
FFS bulbs seem intersting. 1000 watts. 40,000 lumen. built in reflector. 800 hours. $42. very nice. not sure if the light caught by reflector would actually help though. i'm skeptical. i dont think it would help, given our very specific ray-tracing demands. would make the bulb not usable, sadly.
jquinn: i'm waiting for the screen post! i've been checking the avsforum's low cost screen thing, but it just doesnt seem big enough for our applications. maybe tiling would work. i'm just running sheets painted with extra-flat extra-white acrylic paint, which aint too shabby, but aint the best thing.
soje: i'm going to post pictures as soon as possible! excellent idea.
everyone: i have to say everyone, this is really really amazing. i think pretty soon were going to be having a lot of very pleased people with very nice results! keep it up!
what really astounds me is the scale of this project. were not just making bigger projectors, were making better projectors in some cases. (my current setup gives me a seven foot tall image in 16:9 wide screen, for reference). were going above and beyond normal home theater, which is completely awsome in my book. keep it up team!
my LCD aint here, but i'm going to post my setup's photo's anyways. too giddy not to. but too tired to do it tonight.
my server is up. if anyone wants to post photos, email me.
nmb fans look pretty good, way better than the other crap i've been seeing. checking out
carley lamp's reflectors rock. exactly what i'm looking for. might search for something bigger if i end up ultiamtely getting a different bulb setup.
bulb searching: i've been using pureland supply for its pictures and then checking dons bulbs for more information. getting pretty far on my quest for the perfect bulb.
cooling: just remember how heat works. try and get rid of it before it becomes a problem.
lexan: iirc, lexan doesnt have the same heat blocking qualities as glass. and i know it has a lower melting point.
axeman: welcome to the 500 watt club! whoop! i cant wait till your projecting 6x11 images. i'm psyched for ya!
i too was considering dual bulbs, but i think the net heat produced, having to buy twice the replacement bulb factor and the difficulties in creating an even light distribution make it more worthwhile just to get a single brighter bulb:
if your serious (or seriously nuts), get a CYX. 2000 watts, 60,000 lumens. 250 hours. Can be got for $45, which aint that bad. but you'll find no better bulb.
CYV's are also pretty nice, same style thing at 1000 watt and 28500 lumens.
EGJ's are decent, but weird socket. 1000 watts, 400 hours, $30. 27500 lumens even. pretty cost effective in terms of lamp replacement.
EHF are pretty nice. 750 watts, 300 hours, 20,000 lumen. not much better than what i'm using now though. more light would be good.
i'd like more info on the EJD. 180 volts, but 33,000 lumens for 1000 watts. couldnt find life expectancy though.
FFS bulbs seem intersting. 1000 watts. 40,000 lumen. built in reflector. 800 hours. $42. very nice. not sure if the light caught by reflector would actually help though. i'm skeptical. i dont think it would help, given our very specific ray-tracing demands. would make the bulb not usable, sadly.
jquinn: i'm waiting for the screen post! i've been checking the avsforum's low cost screen thing, but it just doesnt seem big enough for our applications. maybe tiling would work. i'm just running sheets painted with extra-flat extra-white acrylic paint, which aint too shabby, but aint the best thing.
soje: i'm going to post pictures as soon as possible! excellent idea.
everyone: i have to say everyone, this is really really amazing. i think pretty soon were going to be having a lot of very pleased people with very nice results! keep it up!
what really astounds me is the scale of this project. were not just making bigger projectors, were making better projectors in some cases. (my current setup gives me a seven foot tall image in 16:9 wide screen, for reference). were going above and beyond normal home theater, which is completely awsome in my book. keep it up team!
my LCD aint here, but i'm going to post my setup's photo's anyways. too giddy not to. but too tired to do it tonight.
my server is up. if anyone wants to post photos, email me.
Myren: Didn't quite understand what you mean when you say that the FFS bulb may not be usable. If you mean that the light intensity wouldn't be uniform( the same amount of light everywhere in the pic ), you just place apiece of glass to blur the light before it hits the LCD('s). Don't know if that is what you meant. I believe this is much light for the cash. About 5 cent pr hour. Original projectorlights(the ones we use) are about 15-20 cents pr hour.
Zark: This is cool. I see that you have a lot of stripes in your picture. ( See the file attached ) Is this because of the camera used or is it in the projected image? I understand you use a 5" LCD. I looked at it and saw that the resolution wasn't the best. Only 960 H x 234 V Try to find a screen with higher res. PAL and NTSC would need about 800 H x 600 V(SVGA) to be at it's best.
All: Love to see your pics. Hopefully in color. Not to complain about you Myren.
Zark: This is cool. I see that you have a lot of stripes in your picture. ( See the file attached ) Is this because of the camera used or is it in the projected image? I understand you use a 5" LCD. I looked at it and saw that the resolution wasn't the best. Only 960 H x 234 V Try to find a screen with higher res. PAL and NTSC would need about 800 H x 600 V(SVGA) to be at it's best.
All: Love to see your pics. Hopefully in color. Not to complain about you Myren.
Attachments
soje are you out of your mind, that image is up close and is just what my setup looks like with a 640 by 480 LCD, even the new philips hopper projector which I recently looked at has that kind of screen door effect. I am also sure the images looks much better without going through a camera! Great work everyone, most impresive. I am still hunting for a good projection globe. I was going to use a standard mains voltage Halgen globe and it was 650 watts and 12 000 lumens but only lasts 50 hours, to short! Anyone know of a similare one that they have the type number?
Fiat1, no I'm not out of my mind. the only horizontal and vertical stripes you should see is the separation between the pixels.
I know that if you go for a higher resolution the LCD's cost a bit more, but over time that is something you won't regret.
If you want to watch a DVD-movie in RGB-format the pic is sent in SVGA(800x600). I'm only saying this to remind everyone that "much wants more".(A norwegian expression)
Just look at your stereo. You start of with a cassette-player and end up with a THX EX classified RDS reciever that cost $3000. A bit exaggerated but close to the truth.
I know that if you go for a higher resolution the LCD's cost a bit more, but over time that is something you won't regret.
If you want to watch a DVD-movie in RGB-format the pic is sent in SVGA(800x600). I'm only saying this to remind everyone that "much wants more".(A norwegian expression)
Just look at your stereo. You start of with a cassette-player and end up with a THX EX classified RDS reciever that cost $3000. A bit exaggerated but close to the truth.
Suggestions for Myren
Myren, the projector lamps you're looking at from PureLandSupply are the same ones that I purchase for the community theatre I work with! I would suggest that you so some comparison shopping though, I was able to find them cheaper at a theatrical supply house! (http://www.vincentlighting.com/ ) They can also help you with the socket you'd need for the lamps in question as well. (Not to mention maybe also help with reflectors and things like that) They're knowledgable people when it comes to lighting. They may even be able to help point you to a lamp that would work better! (No, I have no affiliation with them other than using them to purchase stuff for the theatre)
Come to think of it, I wonder if using an old ellipsoidal theatre instrument might not be a good idea for a light source/lens! This type of instrument is focusable with varying degrees depending on the lens assembly, and if you adjust the gates, you can get a square area for pojection! At that point the only problem is one of heat dissipation. (Which is a lot, trust me, they get hot quick!!) They're designed to run with 500, 750, 1000 watt bulbs, and if you go to the manufacturer's website, you'll even get footcandle ratings at distances along with beam spread. Might be something to check out. (A good place to see this would be http://www.altmanltg.com/ which makes the instruments we use and has the data online)
Good luck!
Myren, the projector lamps you're looking at from PureLandSupply are the same ones that I purchase for the community theatre I work with! I would suggest that you so some comparison shopping though, I was able to find them cheaper at a theatrical supply house! (http://www.vincentlighting.com/ ) They can also help you with the socket you'd need for the lamps in question as well. (Not to mention maybe also help with reflectors and things like that) They're knowledgable people when it comes to lighting. They may even be able to help point you to a lamp that would work better! (No, I have no affiliation with them other than using them to purchase stuff for the theatre)
Come to think of it, I wonder if using an old ellipsoidal theatre instrument might not be a good idea for a light source/lens! This type of instrument is focusable with varying degrees depending on the lens assembly, and if you adjust the gates, you can get a square area for pojection! At that point the only problem is one of heat dissipation. (Which is a lot, trust me, they get hot quick!!) They're designed to run with 500, 750, 1000 watt bulbs, and if you go to the manufacturer's website, you'll even get footcandle ratings at distances along with beam spread. Might be something to check out. (A good place to see this would be http://www.altmanltg.com/ which makes the instruments we use and has the data online)
Good luck!
soje
The lines are from the LCD itself. Your right its not the highest resolution screen available, but my project was based on building a reasonable projector for under $200. If you can link me to a 5" LCD with a higher resolution at a descent price that would be great. I want to keep the cost down because it wouldn't be worth investing the same money as a used comercial projector. The lines arent really that bad especially for the price. I also have a Kloss Novabeam CRT projector that wont have lines as soon as I have time to fix a couple of convergence problems, but I'd rather work on the LCD project. (Less like work). Thanks for the input. If you see any other improvements that could be made, let me know.
Just curious everybody. What type of lens are everyone useing? Mine is a Delta IV, and I've read where some of you were useing an OHP lens. What other kind of lenses are being used?
The lines are from the LCD itself. Your right its not the highest resolution screen available, but my project was based on building a reasonable projector for under $200. If you can link me to a 5" LCD with a higher resolution at a descent price that would be great. I want to keep the cost down because it wouldn't be worth investing the same money as a used comercial projector. The lines arent really that bad especially for the price. I also have a Kloss Novabeam CRT projector that wont have lines
as soon as I have time to fix a couple of convergence problems, but I'd rather work on the LCD project. (Less like work). Thanks for the input. If you see any other improvements that could be made, let me know.Just curious everybody. What type of lens are everyone useing? Mine is a Delta IV, and I've read where some of you were useing an OHP lens. What other kind of lenses are being used?
great job!
I've been reading through the messages and thought I'd post my first one. I've been working on a design very similar to Zark's. I'm awaiting arrival of the LOAs. I'm actaully using a smaller screen (2.5" from a pocket tv) and a Delta 77 Lens. I wanted to ask you Zark, if you are experiencing any heat problems, even with the fan mounted on top(?) How is the air flow in the box?
I've been reading through the messages and thought I'd post my first one. I've been working on a design very similar to Zark's. I'm awaiting arrival of the LOAs. I'm actaully using a smaller screen (2.5" from a pocket tv) and a Delta 77 Lens. I wanted to ask you Zark, if you are experiencing any heat problems, even with the fan mounted on top(?) How is the air flow in the box?
Hello people.
It's seems we are making some progress here.
Zark: why are your pics b&w?
Doesn't anybody else have results posted yet?
My results from the prototype can be found here, as it would seem not too many people have checked them out. The bulb is 240v 900w halogen grabbed from ohp. Generates heat, so at my current furniture setup the results(brightness) are/is not as good but I have already told all about it. My never ending looking-for-bulb session is still going on (as with you other people too), I'm ready to put some serious money in to it but the question where to get it. fck. I can find 6500lumen fluorescents with acceptable color temp but they are not CFLs so they are too big to put in to my thing which is btw. big too! I would be intrested in the real projector lamps like VIP (Osram 's video-projector lamp), UHP (Philips ultra-high effiency), or UHE (whoever's ultra-high effiency) but seems just not doable for me as can't find them from anywhere. Lamps can maybe be found but then the socket and powersupply and whatever would be needed.
One thing to say about the lumens:
For example 30000 lumens is probably too much.
Remember that the more lumens you have, the "greyer" dark scenes in the movie will become. To compensate this you need to do bigger screen by making more space between the screen and the projector and for this you need to have big room.
The need for the lumens comes really from the screen size your after and the size of your room.
Sadly I have really now clue how many lumens is good for average size room. Would guess something like 600 (in the results) from what I read but why are you people having two LOAs?
**** I need to move.
I might go on later, if I have anything more to say really.
It's seems we are making some progress here.
Zark: why are your pics b&w?
Doesn't anybody else have results posted yet?
My results from the prototype can be found here, as it would seem not too many people have checked them out. The bulb is 240v 900w halogen grabbed from ohp. Generates heat, so at my current furniture setup the results(brightness) are/is not as good but I have already told all about it. My never ending looking-for-bulb session is still going on (as with you other people too), I'm ready to put some serious money in to it but the question where to get it. fck. I can find 6500lumen fluorescents with acceptable color temp but they are not CFLs so they are too big to put in to my thing which is btw. big too! I would be intrested in the real projector lamps like VIP (Osram 's video-projector lamp), UHP (Philips ultra-high effiency), or UHE (whoever's ultra-high effiency) but seems just not doable for me as can't find them from anywhere. Lamps can maybe be found but then the socket and powersupply and whatever would be needed.
One thing to say about the lumens:
For example 30000 lumens is probably too much.
Remember that the more lumens you have, the "greyer" dark scenes in the movie will become. To compensate this you need to do bigger screen by making more space between the screen and the projector and for this you need to have big room.
The need for the lumens comes really from the screen size your after and the size of your room.
Sadly I have really now clue how many lumens is good for average size room. Would guess something like 600 (in the results) from what I read but why are you people having two LOAs?
**** I need to move.
I might go on later, if I have anything more to say really.
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