Digital Recreation of a Big PA System

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#81
Dua Lipa

masterinsanity said:
Interesting. I can't imagine using compression for this reason only because as soon as I use it I feel the sound being compressed basically. But again this is probably because I'm working on music that is already compressed and limited, so I feel this would apply a bit more to the mixing stage, right?
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All of the compression references have been to the Dua Lipa clip.
IMHO there's multi layered Electronic Drums that have also been EQed boosting the 50-100 Hz region - if you want a more realistic kick drum sound, attenuate the 50-100 Hz band/boost < 50 Hz.

Here's an example with good 40 Hz EDM of multi layered drums (10 of, according to the Producer).

Carly Rae Jepsen - Call Me Maybe - YouTube
 
#82
Oh but again to clarify, I'm not producing & I'm not mixing.

What I'm doing is taking existing music and attempting to "remaster" it with my own style basically.

I'm only working with finished mastered audio files, which I feel have these imbalances I'm trying to "fix".
 
#83
masterinsanity said:
In comparison, the music I'm trying to remaster is all over the place in the low end, bouncing off and building up. And they also tend to sound muffled, like they don't totally breathe and there's this sense like it's a bit "behind the speaker", not truly reaching out and speaking to you intimately.
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Ah, the nub of the problem!

It's probably midbass in the 150 Hz region - have you tried notching this region out with EQ?

That would be a start in identifying the frequency band it lies in, as you're clearly happy with the 50-100 Hz waveshape of the Dua Lipa clip.
 
#85
Vintage-PA-A-1-Norton-100-Altec-203.jpg
ground stack


pa-system-blog-423x238.jpg
flying pa and yes there is a difference in scale



then there's also
20171222pa2.jpg
here flying and ground stacks are combined, all are different in what they deliver.
 
#86
something just occurred to me have you looked into "track thickening techniques" but in this case you would be using it on a master to replicate your "PA sound"?


even a basic recording package like Soundforge would allow you to do that.
 
#88
Multiband Compressor

masterinsanity said:
Thanks megamond. Any reason for this particular compressor?

Because when Mark demonstrates it with music and compares with the original at around 10m30s I feel the same pressure of the compression as with any other compressor...
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It's multiband adjustable, but as I said, I find the Drum Kit preset perfect for toning up the drums on "thin" old vinyl tracks.

In the sample music clip, I heard a marked difference with Mark's compressor settings - less boominess (w/ dual x 6" BR sub cab: -3dB c. 31 Hz, 200W RMS continuous/8 ohms) AND you can hear a pronounced midrange "slap" of the drum head.
 
#89
megamond said:
Ah, the nub of the problem!

It's probably midbass in the 150 Hz region - have you tried notching this region out with EQ?

That would be a start in identifying the frequency band it lies in, as you're clearly happy with the 50-100 Hz waveshape of the Dua Lipa clip.
Click to expand...

Hey megamond

Yes, I did find that in many cases this muffled aspect was around 200hz, but get into the trouble of removing too much of the musical content in order to fix it. This would be much easier to solve if I had access to the mix with separate tracks. I'm also trying to find which plugin corrects this bloatedness without smearing transients and removing too much or generating this pressure I feel with most eqs...

Still, it's one of the aspects, the other main one being issues below 60hz.

I'm experimenting now with dereverberation, to try and get more of the direct sound

It's a combination of a lot of things 😛

Thanks for the help!
 
#91
turk 182 said:
ground stack


flying pa and yes there is a difference in scale



then there's also
here flying and ground stacks are combined, all are different in what they deliver.
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Hey turk 182

One of my references was exactly like the flying PA in a similar looking place, but the others, such as the one at the beach I mentioned was just a big speaker on a big stand, nothing as elaborate as the ones you show
 
#92
turk 182 said:
something just occurred to me have you looked into "track thickening techniques" but in this case you would be using it on a master to replicate your "PA sound"?


even a basic recording package like Soundforge would allow you to do that.
Click to expand...


Well, as I understand it thickening means adding more to the sound then it already has, to go from thin to thick, when what I'm trying to do really is remove what I feel there's too much of...

In a way I'm trying to de-thicken music to it's "bare components", which I can then make louder again giving a much cleaner, lively perception of the music.
 
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#94
Muddiness

masterinsanity said:
Hey megamond

Yes, I did find that in many cases this muffled aspect was around 200hz, but get into the trouble of removing too much of the musical content in order to fix it. This would be much easier to solve if I had access to the mix with separate tracks. I'm also trying to find which plugin corrects this bloatedness without smearing transients and removing too much or generating this pressure I feel with most eqs...

Still, it's one of the aspects, the other main one being issues below 60hz*.

I'm experimenting now with dereverberation, to try and get more of the direct sound

It's a combination of a lot of things 😛

Thanks for the help!
Click to expand...

Hence, room treatment in Studios - I've actually worked in a (Surround Sound) MCR with a lot of treatment like an anechoic chamber.

The midbass also allows your ear to locate sound, as opposed to sub 100 Hz - re the "behind" the speaker remark.

*I note that the drums on the Dua Lipa clip are definitely > 50 Hz (with reason, I'm sure) whereas the keyboard hits notes as low as 31 Hz fundamental frequency.

Hopefully, you'll get there with a plugin to your satisfaction.
 
#95
turk 182 Click the image to open in full size.ground stack


Click the image to open in full size.flying pa and yes there is a difference in scale



then there's also
Click the image to open in full size.here flying and ground stacks are combined, all are different in what they deliver.
Click to expand...

Good examples, here´s just one more 🙂

Grateful+Dead+.jpg
 

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#97
masterinsanity said:
Well, as I understand it thickening means adding more to the sound then it already has, to go from thin to thick, when what I'm trying to do really is remove what I feel there's too much of...
Click to expand...


it can be used to remove content.


In a way I'm trying to de-thicken music to it's "bare components", which I can then make louder again giving a much cleaner, lively perception of the music.
Click to expand...


ok i get you, i get the same way looking at certain paintings...
 
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