Here is some EQ advice:
Setup Tips For Sound Systems Using Void Enclosures
don't take everything in that document literally... truly following the loudness curves leads to a muddy mess. Also it won't work if your subs are generating distortion as boosting the low bass will cause more audible harmonics in the mid bass.
Setup Tips For Sound Systems Using Void Enclosures
don't take everything in that document literally... truly following the loudness curves leads to a muddy mess. Also it won't work if your subs are generating distortion as boosting the low bass will cause more audible harmonics in the mid bass.
Found a reasonable example (where you can here a lot of the track) and I can find the original song
Charlie's Angels (2019) - Night Club Dance Scene (9/10) | Movieclips - YouTube
Bad Girls (Gigamesh Remix) - YouTube
Sounds like a much bigger system in the movie sound track even on my little full range speakers
The middle is scooped out, there is some echo and the bass sounds compressed almost like it is pumping if that’s the right word. Any thoughts?
Brian
Charlie's Angels (2019) - Night Club Dance Scene (9/10) | Movieclips - YouTube
Bad Girls (Gigamesh Remix) - YouTube
Sounds like a much bigger system in the movie sound track even on my little full range speakers
The middle is scooped out, there is some echo and the bass sounds compressed almost like it is pumping if that’s the right word. Any thoughts?
Brian
To me the original track sounds closer to how it would sound on my system than the film version, sounds like the highs are rolled off in the film version something weird going on with the cymbals.
Here is a (pretty bad) video of my sound system taken on an iphone7, when the camera is pointed at the speakers (white light around 8s) the highs are clear its only when the camera is at 180 degrees to the speakers that they are rolled off:
VID-20200823-WA0004.mp4 - Google Drive
The microphone (apart from been mono) should have a flat frequency response:
Can You Use an iPhone’s Internal Microphone for Acoustic Testing and Accurate Recordings? | Signal Essence
Here is a (pretty bad) video of my sound system taken on an iphone7, when the camera is pointed at the speakers (white light around 8s) the highs are clear its only when the camera is at 180 degrees to the speakers that they are rolled off:
VID-20200823-WA0004.mp4 - Google Drive
The microphone (apart from been mono) should have a flat frequency response:
Can You Use an iPhone’s Internal Microphone for Acoustic Testing and Accurate Recordings? | Signal Essence
Sensitivity
Noob Tech here from a Broadcasting (MCR) background.
Love the ambience of live concerts reproduced on a big, efficient system.
I believe what the OP is attempting to describe is the midbass "slam" afforded by big c. 15" midbass drivers as in a PA system.
Having used 16" Altec monitors in a very large room for several years, I believe it's the c. 100 dB/W/m sensitivity that he's sensing in midbass transients - even the syballence of one's breath on a microphone can be picked up with such sensitivity like nothing else can (even in Pro Broadcasting content) - true "breathiness".
The only way I can think of to Master such without something like the Altecs, or at least 12" JBLs, would be decent headphones.
Noob Tech here from a Broadcasting (MCR) background.
Love the ambience of live concerts reproduced on a big, efficient system.
I believe what the OP is attempting to describe is the midbass "slam" afforded by big c. 15" midbass drivers as in a PA system.
Having used 16" Altec monitors in a very large room for several years, I believe it's the c. 100 dB/W/m sensitivity that he's sensing in midbass transients - even the syballence of one's breath on a microphone can be picked up with such sensitivity like nothing else can (even in Pro Broadcasting content) - true "breathiness".
The only way I can think of to Master such without something like the Altecs, or at least 12" JBLs, would be decent headphones.
One of the prerequisites for that slam (if it's on the recording), is a clean response through that part of the midrange. Not having a baffle step here helps, something not a problem for large cabinets/drivers. A baffle step may be accompanied by a varying response due to room reflections from the rear and sides, some of which are sensitive to being equalised.
Thank you kipman725
The EQ settings you mention may make sense on an actual PA system, but on the original audio I find it's always the opposite. Almost every single electronic music track to my ears has too much low end and muddiness. The most commercial pop-like ones are the ones that are polished and don't sound like this to me (like in big Hollywood movies), but other genres such as progressive, house and techno to me they have imbalances and it's always too much of this, too much of that
Hi again. I think I wasn't clear on my original post hehe. I'm actually trying to recreate certain tonal characteristics but onto the music itself, in the mastering stage.
I'm not literally making a PA system, but more trying to find out if it's possible to create the same effects some physical parts would have on a speaker but at a digital level.
Hi Brian!
Great example.
To me there's that relaxed breathiness the way it's put in the movie and the original is the one that sounds pumping, in the sense that the low end feels pressed down.
To you it sounds pumping in the movie?
What you say about the highs I feel it has to do with the way they make it sound somewhat like it's coming from the physical space of the scene. So in that sense it would never sound like the original track being played directly.
For me at least it's the low end that sounds more comfortable. It's there I'd love to know what they made exactly to the track to make it sound like that hehe
I didn't understand the point you were making with the video, but thanks again! And oh man it made me feel like being there. Such a long time without social gatherings
It seems it no longer exists, but it sounds like it's a reverb kind of effect, to put the music inside a particular space, right?
Hey megamond, any idea whether this effect could be emulated and imprinted into an audio file through DSP?
Hi again! As I said I'm not trying to simulate the experience at a listening level on speakers. I'm trying to impart the tonal characteristics, frequency response, transient response to the actual original audio, through the mastering stage.
I think you are trying to emulate "hardware" (large PA System + large venue) with "software" (some kind of processing).
Very much doubt you can reach that, at most a very pale impression of it , simply because you are trying to run against Acoustics/Physics Laws, which is a lost cause.
What do I mean?
Let´s start with a system which provides exactly what you want: a large PA in a real (large) venue.
You play music there at Concert levels (live or recorded), you place a guy there and he will feel/hear what you expect. So far so good.
Part of that will be some kind of frequency response (typical of PA speakers), part of it unavoidable beaming and combing caused by lots of speakers massed together (unless you use a VERY well made Line Source system, and even so ... you will have two: right and left), part huge venue acoustics (the 500 pound gorilla you can not ignore), all that can be simulated, sort of (even the time delys), but you will NOT be able to emulate the sheer sound pressure smashing listener.
Even if you put very high quality microphones where he is, use any fancy microphone technique to pick up exactly what he hear, faithfully record it, reproduction will NOT have the same impact unless played back by a LOUD speaker system at about same SPL.
Listener environment SPL is NOT a parameter which can be captured in a recording, it depends on *playback* system and you have no control of that.
At least, not "inside" the recording.
As a side example: you can not realistically capture and reproduce a gunshot, I don´t know of Hi Fi systems cleanly reproducing 160/170dB peaks, by a large margin.
Very much doubt you can reach that, at most a very pale impression of it , simply because you are trying to run against Acoustics/Physics Laws, which is a lost cause.
What do I mean?
Let´s start with a system which provides exactly what you want: a large PA in a real (large) venue.
You play music there at Concert levels (live or recorded), you place a guy there and he will feel/hear what you expect. So far so good.
Part of that will be some kind of frequency response (typical of PA speakers), part of it unavoidable beaming and combing caused by lots of speakers massed together (unless you use a VERY well made Line Source system, and even so ... you will have two: right and left), part huge venue acoustics (the 500 pound gorilla you can not ignore), all that can be simulated, sort of (even the time delys), but you will NOT be able to emulate the sheer sound pressure smashing listener.
Even if you put very high quality microphones where he is, use any fancy microphone technique to pick up exactly what he hear, faithfully record it, reproduction will NOT have the same impact unless played back by a LOUD speaker system at about same SPL.
Listener environment SPL is NOT a parameter which can be captured in a recording, it depends on *playback* system and you have no control of that.
At least, not "inside" the recording.
As a side example: you can not realistically capture and reproduce a gunshot, I don´t know of Hi Fi systems cleanly reproducing 160/170dB peaks, by a large margin.
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Conventionally 1 meter away from weapon muzzle and "frequency" is actually a single peak, you should Fourier analyze it or equivalent to get the frequencies involved.
You will find this interesting:
https://www.montana.edu/rmaher/publications/routh_maher_asa_0516.pdf
You will find this interesting:
https://www.montana.edu/rmaher/publications/routh_maher_asa_0516.pdf
SPL
AND live concert recordings usually directly mic the individual instruments, NOT the PA Mix - if you want big PA sound, you have to reproduce the dynamics, i.e. wide dynamic range/high SPL, with little or no compression.
100 dB/W/m sensitivity can deliver that.
AND live concert recordings usually directly mic the individual instruments, NOT the PA Mix - if you want big PA sound, you have to reproduce the dynamics, i.e. wide dynamic range/high SPL, with little or no compression.
100 dB/W/m sensitivity can deliver that.
Hi JMFahey, thanks again.
Yeah, I'm thinking more and more that what I want is impossible. It's just that sometimes I perceive something similar to what I'm after in pop music, and I get the impression they've done something to the sound that achieves a somewhat similar result. My current reference is this song by Dua Lipa Dua Lipa - Don't Start Now (Official Music Video) - YouTube
I say current because my references change as my perception of sound changes.
And it definitely has to do with sound pressure because that's the main issue I run into that I'm trying to "solve". I feel a kind of pressure I don't find pleasant and I want to make the music feel more pleasant, to me at least. And every filter or plugin or effect I use adds pressure, and I'm always trying to remove it, to relax it so to speak...
I'm going to post this question in another section but I thought I'd ask you and anyone else reading here as well:
Do you know if there is a filter that removes frequencies instead of attenuating them?
By this I mean for example a high-pass filter set at 40hz that doesn't lower the db in a predefined way, but literally removes whatever is beyond 40hz. That way if you duplicated this filter the second one should have no effect whatsoever, because those frequencies will have already been removed by the first one.
The closest thing I've found to this is a brickwall low & high cut in Fabfilter Pro-q, but the main problem is that instead of opening up the sound I can feel it pressed into the resulting audio, it's like everything is bottled up, when what I want is the exact opposite.
I keep concluding this doesn't exist (though I can't understand why) but nobody and nothing I find online so far has confirmed it...
I'm also thinking that this pressure I keep feeling could be the phase? I really don't know what to make of it, but does anyone know if phase can be felt and what it can feel like?
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