I think you guys may be looking at this the wrong way. You are all so set on getting the best sound that you want to change the paramaters of what fits his needs. Forget about the rules of how to design a good sound system and look at it as building an imitation bose setup. The real question is can you design a system just like it that sounds better then bose and costs less.
Alrighty. Sorry for getting side-tracked.
As for small, try also looking at the AuraSound NSW2-326-8A (it's the 2" little brother to the NS3 I mentioned earlier).
In a 30 inch^3 enclosure, ported, it has a -3 at 123 Hz. In a 22.5 inch^3 enclosure, ported, it has a -3 at 140 Hz.
With these, and about 10 watts of amplification, you can hit 94 dB per speaker, or 100 dB with stereo speakers, and that's assuming single driver per speaker. If you go dual driver per speaker, you can hit nearing 110 dB with stereo speakers (at the expense of speakers that are twice as big and needing an amp that can support 4 ohm loads - easy to find).
Also sold at www.madisound.com for around $20 each I believe.
Hope this helps.
Reece
P.S. Regarding the NSW2-326-8A: I personally think the fs of this driver is closer to 220 Hz rather than 250 Hz as stated in the specs, giving you even lower cut-offs for the enclosures I mentioned.
As for small, try also looking at the AuraSound NSW2-326-8A (it's the 2" little brother to the NS3 I mentioned earlier).
In a 30 inch^3 enclosure, ported, it has a -3 at 123 Hz. In a 22.5 inch^3 enclosure, ported, it has a -3 at 140 Hz.
With these, and about 10 watts of amplification, you can hit 94 dB per speaker, or 100 dB with stereo speakers, and that's assuming single driver per speaker. If you go dual driver per speaker, you can hit nearing 110 dB with stereo speakers (at the expense of speakers that are twice as big and needing an amp that can support 4 ohm loads - easy to find).
Also sold at www.madisound.com for around $20 each I believe.
Hope this helps.
Reece
P.S. Regarding the NSW2-326-8A: I personally think the fs of this driver is closer to 220 Hz rather than 250 Hz as stated in the specs, giving you even lower cut-offs for the enclosures I mentioned.
Aura sound are supposed to be good drivers but what are all our small fullrange options. Once we have found that I am sure we could find a suitable driver for this project. Remember the bose speakers are terrible with real world spec of +/-10db through their FR. I am sure we could find a driver that does better. I think that we are going to have to forget about bass and midbass comming from the sats. I also belive that trying to use a ported enclosure will be a waste.
If you guys are worried about getting some bass that will fit this system you will have to deal with high crossover points. The only way I have found to counter act the many problems you get with high crossover points is to use stereo subs (as stated before). The only other sub setup I could see working would be a very low distortion sub but it would not work as well as stereo subs.
If you guys are worried about getting some bass that will fit this system you will have to deal with high crossover points. The only way I have found to counter act the many problems you get with high crossover points is to use stereo subs (as stated before). The only other sub setup I could see working would be a very low distortion sub but it would not work as well as stereo subs.
I should say that this would be a fun cheap project to build but it may be a moot point. Klipsh makes a set of computer speakers that easily rivel bose and they are not the only one. With the klipsh price of $400 it is hard to beat.
I'm currently making some braced test enclosures out of 1/4" hardboard for those ns3s. They'll end up being about .05 cu. ft. and measure 4.5" x 5.5" x 5" Deep.
After I get them built, if they don't sound good enough (with stuffing) I'm going to make them aperiodic.
Once I've found something that sounds good, I'll probably build more out of 1/2" mdf, or perhaps baltic birch. If only I knew how to weld aluminum, I would make some nice thin-walled enclosures, although who knows what kind of resonance issues they'd have.
Hezz, in that dual chamber aperiodic enclosure, is the entire thing sealed? It sounds like an interesting idea.
-Ian
After I get them built, if they don't sound good enough (with stuffing) I'm going to make them aperiodic.
Once I've found something that sounds good, I'll probably build more out of 1/2" mdf, or perhaps baltic birch. If only I knew how to weld aluminum, I would make some nice thin-walled enclosures, although who knows what kind of resonance issues they'd have.
Hezz, in that dual chamber aperiodic enclosure, is the entire thing sealed? It sounds like an interesting idea.
-Ian
Greets!
Wrap the rear of the driver and stuff the cab with 1.5 lbs/ft^3 of R-19 or acoustic rated fiberglass, tuning it by spacing the driver up off the baffle (the desired gap will probably be tiny).
GM
Dave and Hess,
I will try to find the web page of the guy who was experimenting with this. He was using high Qt Dynaudio drivers and was able according to his own words to get spectacular results in a moderate size cabinet in relation to the speaker size.
Now to answer your initial question. Yes it is a sealed design and allows for tuning the Qts to almost anything that you want. It uses two chambers with the aperiodic or variovent between the two chambers.
Check out my post in the dual chamber aperiodic thread that Dave started. I've posted the design information.
Hezz
I will try to find the web page of the guy who was experimenting with this. He was using high Qt Dynaudio drivers and was able according to his own words to get spectacular results in a moderate size cabinet in relation to the speaker size.
Now to answer your initial question. Yes it is a sealed design and allows for tuning the Qts to almost anything that you want. It uses two chambers with the aperiodic or variovent between the two chambers.
Check out my post in the dual chamber aperiodic thread that Dave started. I've posted the design information.
Hezz
The Paulinator said:
I'm interested in seeing what you've done with this. I have a few artsy-designer friends and I think small setups like these would make easy, distinctive, and fun presents for christmas and the like.
I think I have found a driver I would use if I were building this project.
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w3-1285sb.htm
It's a we bit larger then the bose driver but it's full range and close enough to the right size to work.
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w3-1285sb.htm
It's a we bit larger then the bose driver but it's full range and close enough to the right size to work.
I think you should try the NS3s because you wouldn't have to cross them over at 140 hz like the bose. I have some and they have really good bass for 3" speakers and sound great.
Here is my synopsis to this point:
Davey Jones wants speakers as small and cute as Boses but sound better and are DIY. This is the design requirement. He does not want alternatives such as in wall, art objects, new girlfriend.
The game is to beat Bose at THEIR game.
-The satellite size MUST be
3 1/8 X 6 3/16 X 4 1/8 or minimally larger ie 1/8"
-They must cross over at around 100 hz MAX. so the sub doesn't have to be very close to the satellites.
-They must look cute
BUT, here are some helpful points:
-Efficiency isn't an issue
-VOLUME IS LOW!!!!!The average sound level for the system might be only 90dB
So I think that Davey is on the right track with his latest ideas.
A 3" driver that has adequate power handling and excursion to tolerate linkwitz transform bass boost to get the crossover down to 100hz or less but at low sound pressure levels!! Can you use linkwitz transform with aperiodic loading? I think so...
Other comments:
Bose uses design tricks to make the sats cuter and smaller looking.
They break the volume into 2 smaller cubes which are "cuter"
The cubes are twisted which breaks up the mass. (I guess we can't do this...)
I suggest that the cabinet you make has rounded edges and a groove around the "waist" to make it look like 2 cubes.
I might be tempted to use 1/4 inch lead to make the cabinets but there is a lot of danger in sanding it. After it is made It can be painted to make it safe to handle. One way to sand it is to use glue as the lubricant while sanding, then wipe down the box and let the glue set on the sandpaper. There is still the issue of disposing of the sandpaper , so I guess that's a pretty irrisponsible idea....
Still, if the panels are made of metal, they can be glued together with epoxy, so welding may not be required. Aluminum would require the same sanding with glue idea to remove the oxidation in order to insure a good bond, then add more glue and assemble, which keeps air away from the metal. This idea was suggested here on DIYaudo- I can't take credit.... Of course aluminum would require a damping layer also, but these panels are realy tiny and might not need to be even 1/4" thick if aluminum, so maybe they could be 3/16" alu with 1/16" damping.
Integrating them into art or ceramic urns is harder that it sounds.
Those drivers are very different looking than most art materials. It sounds like a good idea-it ain't easy...
Now I will start suggesting MY deviances from Bose 🙄
the 3rd trick Bose uses is that the sub is black and doesn't really count in the "cute" factor. I would first see if you could make 2 subs, and investigate if there would be a chair or sofa or bookshelf or someplace close to ewach speaker where you could hide each sub.
Or perhaps she wouldn't mind one foot square (cute cubes!), well finished, sub boxes in the corners behind those stacks of art supplies.
The general rules are the same though- sealed cabinets with eq and high power.
Where is all this high power coming from? Well if the average sound level isn't very loud, ie less than a watt, then then the power might not be as high as it might seem, and one of the many chip amps around here could do the job. Or maybe one of the Tripath amps:
I prefer my Sonic Impact T amp, but with the equalization, its 5 watts a channel is prob too little. There is a three channel Teac Tripath box that might be just the ticket with about 20watts/ch. -and it is VERY cute in a nicely finished metal box. 41 hz makes Tripath kits of greater power, but they require some surface mount soldering.
That's another possible "cheat" . As long as the amp box can be hidden, it doesn't have to be tiny.
Davey Jones wants speakers as small and cute as Boses but sound better and are DIY. This is the design requirement. He does not want alternatives such as in wall, art objects, new girlfriend.
The game is to beat Bose at THEIR game.
-The satellite size MUST be
3 1/8 X 6 3/16 X 4 1/8 or minimally larger ie 1/8"
-They must cross over at around 100 hz MAX. so the sub doesn't have to be very close to the satellites.
-They must look cute
BUT, here are some helpful points:
-Efficiency isn't an issue
-VOLUME IS LOW!!!!!The average sound level for the system might be only 90dB
So I think that Davey is on the right track with his latest ideas.
A 3" driver that has adequate power handling and excursion to tolerate linkwitz transform bass boost to get the crossover down to 100hz or less but at low sound pressure levels!! Can you use linkwitz transform with aperiodic loading? I think so...
Other comments:
Bose uses design tricks to make the sats cuter and smaller looking.
They break the volume into 2 smaller cubes which are "cuter"
The cubes are twisted which breaks up the mass. (I guess we can't do this...)
I suggest that the cabinet you make has rounded edges and a groove around the "waist" to make it look like 2 cubes.
I might be tempted to use 1/4 inch lead to make the cabinets but there is a lot of danger in sanding it. After it is made It can be painted to make it safe to handle. One way to sand it is to use glue as the lubricant while sanding, then wipe down the box and let the glue set on the sandpaper. There is still the issue of disposing of the sandpaper , so I guess that's a pretty irrisponsible idea....
Still, if the panels are made of metal, they can be glued together with epoxy, so welding may not be required. Aluminum would require the same sanding with glue idea to remove the oxidation in order to insure a good bond, then add more glue and assemble, which keeps air away from the metal. This idea was suggested here on DIYaudo- I can't take credit.... Of course aluminum would require a damping layer also, but these panels are realy tiny and might not need to be even 1/4" thick if aluminum, so maybe they could be 3/16" alu with 1/16" damping.
Integrating them into art or ceramic urns is harder that it sounds.
Those drivers are very different looking than most art materials. It sounds like a good idea-it ain't easy...
Now I will start suggesting MY deviances from Bose 🙄
the 3rd trick Bose uses is that the sub is black and doesn't really count in the "cute" factor. I would first see if you could make 2 subs, and investigate if there would be a chair or sofa or bookshelf or someplace close to ewach speaker where you could hide each sub.
Or perhaps she wouldn't mind one foot square (cute cubes!), well finished, sub boxes in the corners behind those stacks of art supplies.
The general rules are the same though- sealed cabinets with eq and high power.
Where is all this high power coming from? Well if the average sound level isn't very loud, ie less than a watt, then then the power might not be as high as it might seem, and one of the many chip amps around here could do the job. Or maybe one of the Tripath amps:
I prefer my Sonic Impact T amp, but with the equalization, its 5 watts a channel is prob too little. There is a three channel Teac Tripath box that might be just the ticket with about 20watts/ch. -and it is VERY cute in a nicely finished metal box. 41 hz makes Tripath kits of greater power, but they require some surface mount soldering.
That's another possible "cheat" . As long as the amp box can be hidden, it doesn't have to be tiny.
Dave,
Do you plan putting these Bose clones on a speaker stand or mounting them on wall or sitting them where ever. The reason I ask is because if you are planning on speaker stands you can integrate the stand into the cabinet to pick up some extra volume and still keep the cabinet really small.
Hezz
Do you plan putting these Bose clones on a speaker stand or mounting them on wall or sitting them where ever. The reason I ask is because if you are planning on speaker stands you can integrate the stand into the cabinet to pick up some extra volume and still keep the cabinet really small.
Hezz
Of two designs..
.. the Aura NS3-193-8a and the Hi-Vi B3S, both
now posted at http://www.zaphaudio.com, all things
considered, which one would appear to
come out ahead? Is it simply that the NS3 is only a little better
- and and only a little more expensive?
.. the Aura NS3-193-8a and the Hi-Vi B3S, both
now posted at http://www.zaphaudio.com, all things
considered, which one would appear to
come out ahead? Is it simply that the NS3 is only a little better
- and and only a little more expensive?
Attachments
Actually they can be bought for 34.95 at any Wal-Mart store. Known as the el-cheapo home theatre system. Made in China but what the heck......😀 I use one in my bedroom with my HD LCD TV set.
Mark
Mark
Mark A. Gulbrandsen said:
Mark:
Are you saying the Aura NS-3 can be bought in any Wal-Mart store in a $34.95 home theater system?
Or are you saying that Wal-Mart sells, at $34.95, a better home theater system than Bose-but not one that necesssarily contains the same drivers as the Aura NS-3 or the HiVi B3S?
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