Could you give some detail on the cable in question where you hear the differences, and also what's the source and what's the receiver in your case.
It can only be a SE cable with RCA plugs because a balanced cable can't be reversed, true ?
Hans
This thread, like all cable threads anywhere at all, is going the predictable and wearisome way. I say potato and I say potaato.
(Posted after Hans's always insightful post)
(Posted after Hans's always insightful post)
All wire is directional, therefore all cables are directional. Moreover since cables comprise two separate wires both + and - cables should be controlled for directionality.
Speaker cables, Interconnects, power cords, fuses, digital cables, HDMI cables. Also internal speaker wiring, internal wiring of electronics, transformers, inductors.
If balanced cables were not controlled for directionality during manufacture then you have a 50% chance the cables will be in the right direction when installed. Ditto power cords, obviously.
Speaker cables, Interconnects, power cords, fuses, digital cables, HDMI cables. Also internal speaker wiring, internal wiring of electronics, transformers, inductors.
If balanced cables were not controlled for directionality during manufacture then you have a 50% chance the cables will be in the right direction when installed. Ditto power cords, obviously.
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Interesting vision, I won't say it's impossible, but the reason why seems to go completely over the top of my head.
You probably seem to have a very selective auditory system to hear any differences, I definitely don't have such extreme hearing system.
It could help when you disclose a bit more of your audio set that's revealing such details.
Hans
You probably seem to have a very selective auditory system to hear any differences, I definitely don't have such extreme hearing system.
It could help when you disclose a bit more of your audio set that's revealing such details.
Hans
As long as one isn’t hearing impaired and there are no mistakes in the system anyone shoukd be able to hear it. Reversing a fuse, interconnects or speaker cables should be audible, for better or worse.
OK - what about the many tens of meters of bog standard winding wire in loudspeaker voice coils? You have absolutely no chance of reversing that, And surely that must dominate by far any potential directional effect in loudspeaker cables.
You’re right, I have no chance of reversing the wire in voice coils. If the speaker manufacturer was alert to the issue he would figure out how to control the wire in voice coils for directionality during manufacture. It’s not rocket science. You only have to be aware of the issue, which most aren’t, before you can act on it. On the other hand, doubters can easily reverse many cables and fuses themselves.
Law of maximization: No matter how much you have in the end you would have had more if you had started out with more.
Law of maximization: No matter how much you have in the end you would have had more if you had started out with more.
Thanks for saying it’s not impossible. The reason wire is directional is because the crystal grain structure of the metal becomes physically direction-orientated when the wire is pulled through the final die. it is this physical asymmetry that‘s responsible for “directionality.“ My set is not high end at all. By the way, this concept is not mine originally, I think the first cable company to control their cables for directionality is AudioQuest, that was about 25 years ago.
So for 50 Hz AC signal to listen, you are flipping the wire 100 times a second, in order to have correct directionality.
Recall there are two wires + and - for AC to work. Thus, both wires + and - must be controlled for directionality during the manufacturing process. There must be a methodology. Otherwise it’s random. To understand the details how all this works one must understand how the signal travels on the wires. Back and forth on both wires, to make a very simplified statement of AC operation.
The rate of alternation of the signal in anAC power cord is 60 cycles a second. The rate of alternation for AC in audio cables is the instantaneous audio frequency.
@geoffkait
Do you know how to do blind testing the right way?
Read this (and the post that follows it) then comeback and tell us if you already knew all about that: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-black-hole.349926/post-7310119
Do you know how to do blind testing the right way?
Read this (and the post that follows it) then comeback and tell us if you already knew all about that: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-black-hole.349926/post-7310119
Uber skeptics seem to be overly enamored with the expression, I bet it can’t pass a controlled double blind test.
No one seems to have a retort for my comment, negative results of a blind test have no significance. Anyone?
No one seems to have a retort for my comment, negative results of a blind test have no significance. Anyone?
Are you Mike, too? Same M.O. Don't answer, change the subject, etc. Do you know how to do blind testing properly or not? I will take your answer thus far to mean that you don't know.
I wouldn't call it logic exactly. Debate strategy to avoid having to learn how to listen properly, maybe.
There is no travel of signal in a cable - thats what you don't seem to understand.
It is not like a water hose - right? You do understand that? In a hose, water travels.
Nothing travels in a cable (well it does but it travels with 1 meter per minute or something like that so its not you favourite horse jazz tune)
If you knew how the cable was drawn - should the "signal" flow in the draw direction or in the reverse direction. If you know - why this direction?
If you don't it means that you need always to listen for the correct direction....
Please define "signal flow" - my guess is that it is from the amp to the speaker? Correct?
What is the "signal flow" in a mains cable?
With the same confidence as you have in the directional cable, I have in that such a stance is delusional.
//
It is not like a water hose - right? You do understand that? In a hose, water travels.
Nothing travels in a cable (well it does but it travels with 1 meter per minute or something like that so its not you favourite horse jazz tune)
If you knew how the cable was drawn - should the "signal" flow in the draw direction or in the reverse direction. If you know - why this direction?
If you don't it means that you need always to listen for the correct direction....
Please define "signal flow" - my guess is that it is from the amp to the speaker? Correct?
What is the "signal flow" in a mains cable?
With the same confidence as you have in the directional cable, I have in that such a stance is delusional.
//
Had another go this evening, this time using single ended 6080 amplifier. This included a listening session with the Mrs who definitely had a preference for the low capacitance, I think I agree that the high capacitance sounded a bit flatter and lacking in life in comparison. She isn't technical but she is a musician, and didn't really understand what I was doing (swapping cables). I had to do a listening test because if I cannot hear anything, probably won't stand a chance of measuring (inner laugh). Not anywhere as obvious as I have heard on this occasion, but still. And yes I still have most of the wires and speakers used in my initial discovery almost 30 years ago!, and I dug them out for this test. This experiment has been a long time coming...
The clip below is Dada Puzzle track 6 starting 3 minutes in. It is a null (of sorts) between a very short wire and a low capacitance (first) and a high capacitance (second) using a 6080 SE amp and 8 ohm wire wound resistors.
The clip below is Dada Puzzle track 6 starting 3 minutes in. It is a null (of sorts) between a very short wire and a low capacitance (first) and a high capacitance (second) using a 6080 SE amp and 8 ohm wire wound resistors.
The two versions sound quite different, with the first sounding muted and lacking detail, and second sounding more distorted and yet at the same time somewhat more bright and detailed. Both sound pretty bad, but in different ways. MP3 isn't helping accurate reproduction either. Is that how your test system actually sounds into 8R resistors? Not quite clear on exactly why both sound so bad (this is listening on cheap Amazon headphones and with my laptop sound card; playing mp3 on the good system would just show more clearly how bad mp3 is). May I ask what dac you are using?
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