the w3-315 is supposed to be "spritziger" ("bubblier") than the 871 in the treble, so if you don't like the 871, don't try the 315.
Bret
Bret
I would build them in 18mm MDF if I were you. I gives the cabinet much more solidity... the sound profits from that.
what I do in such a case is drill two holes of the same (or even a bit smaller) diameter as the cables (1 hole for each wire), so that the cable will just pass through it. that alone will seal pretty well. then just add some hot melt glue or silicone on the inside. remember to do all this before you close the bottom part 🙂CfM said:
I tried that, and didn't like it a bit.hpolkerman said:
I'm going to try the Vifa 9 BGS 119/8 (I'll start with the Picolino2's notch filter). I have the plywood, I have a form *) to countersink the unit, now buy some time somewhere...
*) wat is sjabloon ook al weer in het engels?
ok, i take it back.
I'm listening to the Tabaqs with the Vifas in. Let's put it this way, my seal on the one was pretty terrible, but they're now OK. However, they MUST be hard against a wall and then they sound nicely rounded.
The absolute bass of Leftfield or Don Johnson Big Band's "Cocoa Cacao" is missing, but i'm not expecting that from a 3" driver.
So, I think i will try next the needles with these as this is pretty damn good.
If it's well recorded, it sounds good, but they really are pretty unforgiving of bad recordings (confessions on a Dance floor!). Is this the driver? could well be, but they're being driven by a Denon PMA255UK, which should be reasonably balanced with a tendency towards warmth.
I don't remember the TBs being this open and detailed.
Bret
I'm listening to the Tabaqs with the Vifas in. Let's put it this way, my seal on the one was pretty terrible, but they're now OK. However, they MUST be hard against a wall and then they sound nicely rounded.
The absolute bass of Leftfield or Don Johnson Big Band's "Cocoa Cacao" is missing, but i'm not expecting that from a 3" driver.
So, I think i will try next the needles with these as this is pretty damn good.
If it's well recorded, it sounds good, but they really are pretty unforgiving of bad recordings (confessions on a Dance floor!). Is this the driver? could well be, but they're being driven by a Denon PMA255UK, which should be reasonably balanced with a tendency towards warmth.
I don't remember the TBs being this open and detailed.
Bret
The Vifa's indeed show the bad recordings,
I've stopped playing The White Stripes and The Red Hot Chili Peppers - Californication. Both are not as good recorded as I wanted...
My Vifa's are now in an TQWT, and they sound great, with even more bass then the needle (about same length, but now tapered line).
You can get more bass out of the vifa 10's then the W3's from tangband.
They are more warm then the TB's. But the radiation pattern is a bit slim, the TB has a better high off-axis.
I've stopped playing The White Stripes and The Red Hot Chili Peppers - Californication. Both are not as good recorded as I wanted...
My Vifa's are now in an TQWT, and they sound great, with even more bass then the needle (about same length, but now tapered line).
You can get more bass out of the vifa 10's then the W3's from tangband.
They are more warm then the TB's. But the radiation pattern is a bit slim, the TB has a better high off-axis.
From today I can comment on the "Needle". Many people love/adore/praise/cherish the little frs8. When I got it, I put it in a 1 dm^3 closed enclosure.
(1l, as recommended on the visaton website as a satellite speaker)
This sounded horrible! (even with some damping-tests, it seemed like the driver was facing a wall and was reflecting echo’s)
Yesterday I began building an enclosure based on cyburg's Needle-design. Today I put the drivers in and connected them to my amp. There was a major improvement in the sound but still it sounds a bit over-bright in the mid's-high's. For pop-sings this means it can be uncomfortable to listen to at higher volume.
I still am not sure if I like the sound, but for now, they’ll play some music until the drivers are well up and running.
Ps. I am not a hifi-guru. I just tell you what I hear and (dis)like.
Ps. “Violin Concerto in A minor - BWV 1041 - 03 Allegro, from Classical Masterworks CD2 ” goes great! Violins sound very clean!
Ps. Eminem and dr Dre where the ones to prove the amount of bass! Great job Cyburgs!
(1l, as recommended on the visaton website as a satellite speaker)
This sounded horrible! (even with some damping-tests, it seemed like the driver was facing a wall and was reflecting echo’s)
Yesterday I began building an enclosure based on cyburg's Needle-design. Today I put the drivers in and connected them to my amp. There was a major improvement in the sound but still it sounds a bit over-bright in the mid's-high's. For pop-sings this means it can be uncomfortable to listen to at higher volume.
I still am not sure if I like the sound, but for now, they’ll play some music until the drivers are well up and running.
Ps. I am not a hifi-guru. I just tell you what I hear and (dis)like.
Ps. “Violin Concerto in A minor - BWV 1041 - 03 Allegro, from Classical Masterworks CD2 ” goes great! Violins sound very clean!
Ps. Eminem and dr Dre where the ones to prove the amount of bass! Great job Cyburgs!
maybe a stupid question, but do you have the notch filter in place?
And why have you chosen the cheap Visaton, the other fullrangers are much better.
And why have you chosen the cheap Visaton, the other fullrangers are much better.
Because the visatonS costs me 15,- euro /2. Two TB's would have cost me +/- 50 euro. (38 euro without shipping from spectrumaudio.de, excl top notch)
I might sell the speakers, once in paint and buy better drivers (maybe Monacor's for the CT193)
I might sell the speakers, once in paint and buy better drivers (maybe Monacor's for the CT193)
The monacor SP-60 is nice, but I've heard great replies about the SPH-30X (yellow kevlar cone), have you heard any of the monacors and could you compare?
The monacor I referred to is the SPH-60x, which is not the same as the SP 60. I have no experience with these drivers.
(op marktplaats staan 2 SP 60's)
(op marktplaats staan 2 SP 60's)
Hey, everyone. Parts express has a buyout 8" sub + box (no amp) for $20. I saw it and thought "Now there's a good way to add some capacity to my needles." I'm partnering it with the PE 25 watt plate amp for $40, but you could get the 70 watt for $60 if you want it to kick a little more booty. I thought I'd share it with all yous 3" fullranger types. It's a buyout, so limited quantities.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=309-402&CFID=13352700&CFTOKEN=74773224
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=309-402&CFID=13352700&CFTOKEN=74773224
Mmmm,
A sub that's about 60$ for 20?
I'm glad I've got a nice heavy 10" Sub with a Hypex 2.0 amp module.
I had a Logitech X230, which had a small subwoofer as well, the sound was more "disturbing" than decent, gave it to my parents and made my own 2.1 set for the computer.
A visaton FG200G with two small Visaton 2-way speakers.
But if you're on a real tight budget and have no room at all, a 60$ sub would be something to consider...
A sub that's about 60$ for 20?
I'm glad I've got a nice heavy 10" Sub with a Hypex 2.0 amp module.
I had a Logitech X230, which had a small subwoofer as well, the sound was more "disturbing" than decent, gave it to my parents and made my own 2.1 set for the computer.
A visaton FG200G with two small Visaton 2-way speakers.
But if you're on a real tight budget and have no room at all, a 60$ sub would be something to consider...
I'm back to report on the sub.
It's not bad. It's not as fast or as tight as one might like, but after stuffing one of the two ports and fiddling with the knobs for a couple days it's acceptable. It's basically musical, rather than just noisy. It's certainly not a "no compromises" piece, but neither is the needle. The littlest PE plate amp provides enough juice to do the job. The job being match with the needles, as opposed to powering the disco or shaking the plaster off your walls.
Taking a load off the needle helps everything else as well. The speaker sounds louder at the same volume (more dynamic? less thermal compression?), and also both the needle and the t-amp can be turned up higher in an absolute sense before the sound becomes objectionable. Again, it's all about setting the knobs right. Don't cross too high or you'll obscure the needles strengths, but as high as possible to take as much load off the needles as you can.
I listen to a lot of electronic music. Most stuff simply sounds better, with both more bass authority and the benefits I mentioned earlier. When the material starts to get crazy you can start to hear that there is a subwoofer there and it's behind the main speaker in timing. But with even significantly heavy dance music the sub stays fairly well mannered.
I wonder if the difference between a unit like this and a sub scavanged from even a fairly nice computer sub/sat system may be the plate amp. I would not be suprised to learn that the amp for the average Logitech system did all sorts of response shaping and probably couldn't be adjusted (tho who knows, I might be wrong). The PE plate amp provides the quality and flexability to avoid being really offensive.
I'm sure it depends on what you expect of the equipment. Improving the bass output of a 3-inch full range speaker is a fairly modest goal, after all.
BTW - After I placed my order I saw that a 10 inch dayton sub was on sale for $100, and that's probably significantly nicer and you might be able to get free shipping on if for crossing the $100 mark. It looks like it has the low level outputs I was wishing for... DOH.
It's not bad. It's not as fast or as tight as one might like, but after stuffing one of the two ports and fiddling with the knobs for a couple days it's acceptable. It's basically musical, rather than just noisy. It's certainly not a "no compromises" piece, but neither is the needle. The littlest PE plate amp provides enough juice to do the job. The job being match with the needles, as opposed to powering the disco or shaking the plaster off your walls.
Taking a load off the needle helps everything else as well. The speaker sounds louder at the same volume (more dynamic? less thermal compression?), and also both the needle and the t-amp can be turned up higher in an absolute sense before the sound becomes objectionable. Again, it's all about setting the knobs right. Don't cross too high or you'll obscure the needles strengths, but as high as possible to take as much load off the needles as you can.
I listen to a lot of electronic music. Most stuff simply sounds better, with both more bass authority and the benefits I mentioned earlier. When the material starts to get crazy you can start to hear that there is a subwoofer there and it's behind the main speaker in timing. But with even significantly heavy dance music the sub stays fairly well mannered.
I wonder if the difference between a unit like this and a sub scavanged from even a fairly nice computer sub/sat system may be the plate amp. I would not be suprised to learn that the amp for the average Logitech system did all sorts of response shaping and probably couldn't be adjusted (tho who knows, I might be wrong). The PE plate amp provides the quality and flexability to avoid being really offensive.
I'm sure it depends on what you expect of the equipment. Improving the bass output of a 3-inch full range speaker is a fairly modest goal, after all.
BTW - After I placed my order I saw that a 10 inch dayton sub was on sale for $100, and that's probably significantly nicer and you might be able to get free shipping on if for crossing the $100 mark. It looks like it has the low level outputs I was wishing for... DOH.
Hello All,
I'm planning to build a set of Needles this next week using TB 871SC, painted high gloss white. First off, thank you Cyburgs for your design and support.
Can anyone give me some tips of clamping? I have done countersunk screws in all of my previous projects, but this project seems to be too elegant for that...
Many thanks, in advance.
Chris
I'm planning to build a set of Needles this next week using TB 871SC, painted high gloss white. First off, thank you Cyburgs for your design and support.
Can anyone give me some tips of clamping? I have done countersunk screws in all of my previous projects, but this project seems to be too elegant for that...
Many thanks, in advance.
Chris
I recommend a satin finish instead of a high-gloss, it will hide the joinery and bumps much better.
From a couple pages back:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1234770#post1234770
From a couple pages back:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1234770#post1234770
assemble needles
cbaldelli3 -
I assembled a pair of needles and used drywall screws up through
the base piece into the bottom of the sides & back because I wanted
to be able to easily remove & replace the base.
No screws or fasteners were used to attach all other
wood (mdf) pieces (only glue, tightbond II, and clamps)
Requires some time and care.
Small scrap piece(s) of mdf can be glued in place(s) where they
will act as 'stops' to help locate long pieces. And where they
will be inside & out of sight when the enclosure is finished.
jb74
cbaldelli3 -
I assembled a pair of needles and used drywall screws up through
the base piece into the bottom of the sides & back because I wanted
to be able to easily remove & replace the base.
No screws or fasteners were used to attach all other
wood (mdf) pieces (only glue, tightbond II, and clamps)
Requires some time and care.
Small scrap piece(s) of mdf can be glued in place(s) where they
will act as 'stops' to help locate long pieces. And where they
will be inside & out of sight when the enclosure is finished.
jb74
@ruerose: your needles look exactly like what I'm hoping to achieve. Was the routing as straightforward as it seems? you said 3/4" circular roundoff bit, I would think that's about the most you could safely take off with 1/2" walls
To all, is the base wide enough to withstand the occasional bump or will I quickly see the "Leaning Tower of Vifa"?
Many thanks,
Chris
To all, is the base wide enough to withstand the occasional bump or will I quickly see the "Leaning Tower of Vifa"?
Many thanks,
Chris
high gloss is definitely one for the masochists. It's *seriously*difficult and it will show up EVERY SINGLE LITTLE ITTY BITTY screwup.
do i sound frustrated? i should. It's taken me 3 days to paint an MDF desk top in gloss white (looks magic) to something approaching the standard I want. You'll need 3-4 coats, each as good as the last, no runs, and i've used 400-600-800-1200 between coats to get a seriously smooth finish. Now it needs one more coat (which will make it 6, but i've been repairing screwups on the way) and then will be sanded and high-gloss varnished a couple of times. Each coat das required overnight to dry for me - i'm working in a litte-too-damp garage.
White's even worse than red for showing up the errors, too...yes, i have a pair of white boxes and they look superb from a distance....I have some pics, i'll dig them out in a minute.
Bret
do i sound frustrated? i should. It's taken me 3 days to paint an MDF desk top in gloss white (looks magic) to something approaching the standard I want. You'll need 3-4 coats, each as good as the last, no runs, and i've used 400-600-800-1200 between coats to get a seriously smooth finish. Now it needs one more coat (which will make it 6, but i've been repairing screwups on the way) and then will be sanded and high-gloss varnished a couple of times. Each coat das required overnight to dry for me - i'm working in a litte-too-damp garage.
White's even worse than red for showing up the errors, too...yes, i have a pair of white boxes and they look superb from a distance....I have some pics, i'll dig them out in a minute.
Bret