Gychang, do you have a link for the Metronome? i can't find it on a google search.
Svein is this the Lancetta?
http://www.visaton-bausaetze.de/hifi/lancetta.htm
Any plans for this design?
I think I'll be building oen of these sometime this year.
Svein is this the Lancetta?
http://www.visaton-bausaetze.de/hifi/lancetta.htm
Any plans for this design?
I think I'll be building oen of these sometime this year.
chuck55 said:
There are links to the (German) Lancetta plans in this thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=67598
If you can read Sweedish, you may find this building report interesting: http://www.hififorum.nu/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=45145
and Lancetta and Needle side by side + measurements: http://www.hififorum.nu/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=49784
(or just look at the pictures)
SveinB.
Svein, thanks for the links. No Swedish, and the only Danish I know goes something like, Jey ved hvordan to Hoff ser uthe'.
The Tabaq looks interesting but no note of efficiency (Lancetta is 80dB) and was designed for the W3-315SC. I'm hoping to hear from Bjorn about those 2 things.
Because if the 315 is anything like the W3-1335, I didn't like that either. It plays louder but is less dynamic than the 871. You can see the cone barely moves while the 871 is all over the place. Some may say this is less distortion (2nd order is nice anyhow)which is probably true but at the low volumes I listen to I would not go with an underhung design. It does not have the get up and go and sounds sort of constipated like a sealed cabinet design IMHO. But to each his own.
The Tabaq looks interesting but no note of efficiency (Lancetta is 80dB) and was designed for the W3-315SC. I'm hoping to hear from Bjorn about those 2 things.
Because if the 315 is anything like the W3-1335, I didn't like that either. It plays louder but is less dynamic than the 871. You can see the cone barely moves while the 871 is all over the place. Some may say this is less distortion (2nd order is nice anyhow)which is probably true but at the low volumes I listen to I would not go with an underhung design. It does not have the get up and go and sounds sort of constipated like a sealed cabinet design IMHO. But to each his own.
chuck55 said:
temporarily at http://www.planet10-hifi.com/metronome.html -- links there to Steven's Metronome (the original one) are there.
There is also a thread here.
An 871 metronome is going to be tiny.
dave
Hi Chuck55,
I cant say much about the efficiency of TABAQ, other than the MJK plots.
I real life, I have not noticed any lack of efficiency. This is not a real concern to me, however. I have tested TABAQ with the less efficient Hi-Vi 3" driver and this was doing well - except that this driver would require more damping.
I see the Needle as expanding, mass loaded design, not a tapered line. TABAQ is made from what I learned playing around with MJK software. I found this style of enclosure has some benefits regarding size and ripples in the summed SPL.
With subs, I have found coupling chamber to be a very good design, but this is another story.
Hope this helps a bit
I cant say much about the efficiency of TABAQ, other than the MJK plots.
I real life, I have not noticed any lack of efficiency. This is not a real concern to me, however. I have tested TABAQ with the less efficient Hi-Vi 3" driver and this was doing well - except that this driver would require more damping.
I see the Needle as expanding, mass loaded design, not a tapered line. TABAQ is made from what I learned playing around with MJK software. I found this style of enclosure has some benefits regarding size and ripples in the summed SPL.
With subs, I have found coupling chamber to be a very good design, but this is another story.
Hope this helps a bit
Linear phase notch
Well. Now that I've ordered and received a couple of Needle kits from lautsprechershop.de, I'm doing some planning and calculations. It's a nice kit, though the binding posts and speaker wire included weren't that great. I've found better posts and wire locally, so that's OK. Lautsprechershop.de are a pleasure to deal with.
I'm interested in performing the notch filtration for my soon-to-be-built Needles with a digital filter, when using a computer as source - and testing whether there are any benefits to linear-phase filtering.
I used the calculator at lautsprechershop.de to find out the filter curve for the Needle's notch:
http://lautsprechershop.de/tools/index_en.htm?/tools/t_ps_schwingkreis_en.htm
This shows the maximum attenuation to be at around 2600 Hz, with -3dB points at around 900 Hz and 8 KHz.
I have access to a copy of the professional studio audio-processing package from Waves. Using the linear-phase parametric EQ there, I created an impulse response with the Needle's notch filter in linear phase. I thought I'd share it:
http://www.box.net/public/bma69damul
You can download this .WAV file and use it with a convolver plugin in your favorite audio player. (At least it works in the very nice Foobar2000: http://foobar2000.org ).
To use this in Foobar2000, you go to
Preferences: Playback: DSP Manager
and add the Convolver plugin to your plugin chain. Then you enter the Convolver plugin pane that's under the DSP manager. There the Needle notch implulse WAV is loaded. The "mix adjust" level must be 100%.
The effect of this is that the audio that Foobar is playing is convolved with this impulse response of the Needle's filter - causing the audio to be filtered in the same way that the impulse was filtered.
If I understand this correctly, this should sound slightly better compared to the capacitor/inductor notch due to the linear phase response and 100% accuracy of the filter (no electric component value tolerances to worry about). Also, it frees the speaker amplifier from having to drive the notch filter as well as the drivers.
Any takers? I can't wait to test this myself, but my speakers are still unbuilt
Edit: a further question:
What would the "perfect" filter for the Needle be? Capacitors, inductors and resistors are only available in certain values. If anybody has requests for a filter with a certain maximum attenuation and -3dB points, I can create an impulse of that filter as well.
Well. Now that I've ordered and received a couple of Needle kits from lautsprechershop.de, I'm doing some planning and calculations. It's a nice kit, though the binding posts and speaker wire included weren't that great. I've found better posts and wire locally, so that's OK. Lautsprechershop.de are a pleasure to deal with.
I'm interested in performing the notch filtration for my soon-to-be-built Needles with a digital filter, when using a computer as source - and testing whether there are any benefits to linear-phase filtering.
I used the calculator at lautsprechershop.de to find out the filter curve for the Needle's notch:
http://lautsprechershop.de/tools/index_en.htm?/tools/t_ps_schwingkreis_en.htm
This shows the maximum attenuation to be at around 2600 Hz, with -3dB points at around 900 Hz and 8 KHz.
I have access to a copy of the professional studio audio-processing package from Waves. Using the linear-phase parametric EQ there, I created an impulse response with the Needle's notch filter in linear phase. I thought I'd share it:
http://www.box.net/public/bma69damul
You can download this .WAV file and use it with a convolver plugin in your favorite audio player. (At least it works in the very nice Foobar2000: http://foobar2000.org ).
To use this in Foobar2000, you go to
Preferences: Playback: DSP Manager
and add the Convolver plugin to your plugin chain. Then you enter the Convolver plugin pane that's under the DSP manager. There the Needle notch implulse WAV is loaded. The "mix adjust" level must be 100%.
The effect of this is that the audio that Foobar is playing is convolved with this impulse response of the Needle's filter - causing the audio to be filtered in the same way that the impulse was filtered.
If I understand this correctly, this should sound slightly better compared to the capacitor/inductor notch due to the linear phase response and 100% accuracy of the filter (no electric component value tolerances to worry about). Also, it frees the speaker amplifier from having to drive the notch filter as well as the drivers.
Any takers?
I can't wait to test this myself, but my speakers are still unbuilt Edit: a further question:
What would the "perfect" filter for the Needle be? Capacitors, inductors and resistors are only available in certain values. If anybody has requests for a filter with a certain maximum attenuation and -3dB points, I can create an impulse of that filter as well.
Ah, a very scientific approach kristleifur, quite interesting.
Just dont forget to listen to some music as well
Until you get your needles finished, I can propose this as a temporary enclosure: Tangband in a Bottle
I do not think there is one absolutely "perfect" filter for this speaker, it will depend on room, and personal preferences to name a few variables. The proposed filter seems to tame a bit of the upper-mid harshness of the driver, and baffle-step correction, while allowing the highest frequencies to pass through.
Svein.
Just dont forget to listen to some music as well
Until you get your needles finished, I can propose this as a temporary enclosure: Tangband in a Bottle
I do not think there is one absolutely "perfect" filter for this speaker, it will depend on room, and personal preferences to name a few variables. The proposed filter seems to tame a bit of the upper-mid harshness of the driver, and baffle-step correction, while allowing the highest frequencies to pass through.
Svein.
Svein_B said:Just dont forget to listen to some music as well
Until you get your needles finished, I can propose this as a temporary enclosure: Tangband in a Bottle
That bottle speaker is *brilliant*, I love it: Charming in a hobo kind of way. Very good!
I wonder if I can put the Beyma 8AG/N's I've got into 20cm pickle jars ...
Thanks for the reminder, too
kristleifur, that is super cool. I have made my needles with external filters b/c I was imagining one day assembling an active filter for them. I hadn't even thought of a software solution!
I haven't been aware of this sort of plug in, I'll have to see about getting that software onto my computer. Hmmm, might have to look into computer sound upgrades as well...
I'll let you know what I hear when I get a chance to play with it!
A
I haven't been aware of this sort of plug in, I'll have to see about getting that software onto my computer. Hmmm, might have to look into computer sound upgrades as well...
I'll let you know what I hear when I get a chance to play with it!
A
It works!
I cooked up a quick bottle speaker. Ingredients: One 1.25 liter Christmas-ale bottle, one woolen sock and a roll of tape. The bottle is sort of flimsy, so I applied an entire roll of tape to it. No idea of the benefits from the tape, but it doesn't look bad It sounds surprisingly good, too! I can't wait to hear the bass from the proper Needles, given that the bass is quite satisfactory just from the bottle. Good little driver!
This I then tested with the notch filter from my last post, and it's definitely better with the filter in the chain. I'll compare with the ordinary cap/inductor notch filter once I've got one built.
Foobar has changed a bit since I last downloaded it, btw. You have to get Foobar itself, and then the Convolver plugin from the plugins page. Copy the Convolver DLL file into the Components folder in the Foobar program folder. Then the settings window for the convolver is accessed from the plugin manager in Foobar.
There's probably some way to do this in Winamp. Considering how many plugins have been released for Winamp, the existence of a convolver plugin is sort of a given. There's probably a way for iTunes on Mac OS X, but it's a bit involved and uses Audio Hijack Pro. More on that later once I get it running on a Mac.
Pictures of the bottle speaker coming up once I've sorted out some camera problems.
DIY is fun!
I cooked up a quick bottle speaker. Ingredients: One 1.25 liter Christmas-ale bottle, one woolen sock and a roll of tape. The bottle is sort of flimsy, so I applied an entire roll of tape to it. No idea of the benefits from the tape, but it doesn't look bad
It sounds surprisingly good, too! I can't wait to hear the bass from the proper Needles, given that the bass is quite satisfactory just from the bottle. Good little driver!This I then tested with the notch filter from my last post, and it's definitely better with the filter in the chain. I'll compare with the ordinary cap/inductor notch filter once I've got one built.
Foobar has changed a bit since I last downloaded it, btw. You have to get Foobar itself, and then the Convolver plugin from the plugins page. Copy the Convolver DLL file into the Components folder in the Foobar program folder. Then the settings window for the convolver is accessed from the plugin manager in Foobar.
There's probably some way to do this in Winamp. Considering how many plugins have been released for Winamp, the existence of a convolver plugin is sort of a given. There's probably a way for iTunes on Mac OS X, but it's a bit involved and uses Audio Hijack Pro. More on that later once I get it running on a Mac.
Pictures of the bottle speaker coming up once I've sorted out some camera problems.
DIY is fun!
Thanks. I stayed in Denmark for awhile. Really miss the apple ketchup, Carlsberg, little red hotdogs. Brought some nougat home but it blew up on the plane. Must've been the low air pressure.
Someone should import those hotdogs and ketchup. That was the best I've ever had. Still miss it 20 years later. Plus, you can't get the right kind of flour to make those really thin pancakes in the US either. Mmmmmm, I'm getting hungry, must be time for lunch.
Thanks Planet 10 for the link. I will have to see how this applies to the 871.
Someone should import those hotdogs and ketchup. That was the best I've ever had. Still miss it 20 years later. Plus, you can't get the right kind of flour to make those really thin pancakes in the US either. Mmmmmm, I'm getting hungry, must be time for lunch.
Thanks Planet 10 for the link. I will have to see how this applies to the 871.
The component values:
- 6.8 uF MKP-Q4 capacitor
- 0.56 mH air core coil with 0.7 mm wire
- 6.8 Ohm MOX10 resistor (blue-grey-gold)
From here:
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/index.htm?/hifi/needle_en.htm
Good luck!
- 6.8 uF MKP-Q4 capacitor
- 0.56 mH air core coil with 0.7 mm wire
- 6.8 Ohm MOX10 resistor (blue-grey-gold)
From here:
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/index.htm?/hifi/needle_en.htm
Good luck!
have you guys been curious about the convolution vs. the physical filter? I have been. I just got a chance to play with it tonight.
I got a winamp plugin RealReverb Convolution, but it didn't like the convolution sample. Something about it not being a valid 16-bit wav file.
I got Foobar2000, and after dinking with it for a while got the convolution plugin set up. It liked the convolution file just fine. Foobar was quieter than Winamp, which seemed odd.
I kinda felt like I was chasing ghosts trying to hear a difference between the two for a while. My computer only has a basic sound board. I'm eyeing a SilverStone EB01 usb DAC to rectify that. But for now my sound card is the cheapest thing I could find to buy, probably 5 years ago or more. =P What can I say, for a long time I had written computer sound off as a lost cause. I think the limits here hold back the observations re: the convolution filter.
But until I can get the computer singing better, here are my thoughts on the comparison:
Is the convolution a little louder? I think it might be. I think it might also be a little more laid back than the actual physical crossover. These somewhat contradictory impressions were a bit confusing, the convolutions relatively more laid back presentation giving the impression of quiet. I'm not sure which one I prefered here, it depends on the source material, if it likes a more lively presentation, or if it needs to be soothed a bit.
I felt like a bigger difference was more in the bass. It felt more dynamic. Also fatter, but I wouldn't say any more extended. Perhaps a bit more tonally accurate. Kickdrums were more defined, and tighter. Bass lines were a bit more round. Improved bass from the needles? I know, crazy talk. The 3-in drivers never cease to amaze.
Of course, it hasn't been night and day. But with a computer that does better as a source, maybe. The amplification I'm running right now is a t-amp that is waiting it's turn to go under the soldering iron. With better output from the computer, and amplification with increased ability down low I expect the system's preference for the convolution would only increase.
I'd enjoy hearing someone else's impressions.
A
I got a winamp plugin RealReverb Convolution, but it didn't like the convolution sample. Something about it not being a valid 16-bit wav file.
I got Foobar2000, and after dinking with it for a while got the convolution plugin set up. It liked the convolution file just fine. Foobar was quieter than Winamp, which seemed odd.
I kinda felt like I was chasing ghosts trying to hear a difference between the two for a while. My computer only has a basic sound board. I'm eyeing a SilverStone EB01 usb DAC to rectify that. But for now my sound card is the cheapest thing I could find to buy, probably 5 years ago or more. =P What can I say, for a long time I had written computer sound off as a lost cause. I think the limits here hold back the observations re: the convolution filter.
But until I can get the computer singing better, here are my thoughts on the comparison:
Is the convolution a little louder? I think it might be. I think it might also be a little more laid back than the actual physical crossover. These somewhat contradictory impressions were a bit confusing, the convolutions relatively more laid back presentation giving the impression of quiet. I'm not sure which one I prefered here, it depends on the source material, if it likes a more lively presentation, or if it needs to be soothed a bit.
I felt like a bigger difference was more in the bass. It felt more dynamic. Also fatter, but I wouldn't say any more extended. Perhaps a bit more tonally accurate. Kickdrums were more defined, and tighter. Bass lines were a bit more round. Improved bass from the needles? I know, crazy talk. The 3-in drivers never cease to amaze.
Of course, it hasn't been night and day. But with a computer that does better as a source, maybe. The amplification I'm running right now is a t-amp that is waiting it's turn to go under the soldering iron. With better output from the computer, and amplification with increased ability down low I expect the system's preference for the convolution would only increase.
I'd enjoy hearing someone else's impressions.
A
Sorry to kind of trail off topic guys, but I'm looking to build the Needles as a Bipole speaker. Would it make sense to double the width of the speaker to increase the Line area to accomodate 2 3" drivers?
I was also thinking of building Cyburg's stick and using to 3" drivers instead of the single 4" in a bipole configuration. The Sd is practically identical.
What do you think?
Thanks.
I was also thinking of building Cyburg's stick and using to 3" drivers instead of the single 4" in a bipole configuration. The Sd is practically identical.
What do you think?
Thanks.
