poobah said:
I would compare such fixture to the usefulness of $500 wooden knob, somebody mentioned on the forum.
I do not teach, I show what works.
mzzj,
Wow! Vodka as cutting fluid! You know... there are old texts that talk about using lard (animal fat/shortening) for cutting and tapping gummy metals...
😱
Wow! Vodka as cutting fluid! You know... there are old texts that talk about using lard (animal fat/shortening) for cutting and tapping gummy metals...
😱
Actually Peter,
I agree with you about the wooden knob... but I can't believe you, of all people, would say such a thing... without listening to it first.
In the same way, you would find a fixture of that nature very usefull... if you tried (or thought about) it first. It is considerably more stable than the miter guides most saws come with...
😉
I agree with you about the wooden knob... but I can't believe you, of all people, would say such a thing... without listening to it first.
In the same way, you would find a fixture of that nature very usefull... if you tried (or thought about) it first. It is considerably more stable than the miter guides most saws come with...
😉
As you suggested, such fixture would need slots in the table and most professional tables do not have slots for intended use with such fixture.
If no specific angle is required, I never use miter guide. I find a square piece of wood, guided by the fence, a much better (guiding) tool. Of course, the technique I developed for my personal use over last 15 years may not be suitable for someone else, if not only for a reason of feeleing extra safe and that is quite understood.
As to the knob, well, everything has limits, and mine are not stretched that far yet. Besides, I usually use shaft extenders, so the effect of the knob would be somewhat masked anyway.
If no specific angle is required, I never use miter guide. I find a square piece of wood, guided by the fence, a much better (guiding) tool. Of course, the technique I developed for my personal use over last 15 years may not be suitable for someone else, if not only for a reason of feeleing extra safe and that is quite understood.
As to the knob, well, everything has limits, and mine are not stretched that far yet. Besides, I usually use shaft extenders, so the effect of the knob would be somewhat masked anyway.
If the job really requires a special fixture, I don't mind coming up with such, but it needs to be really useful: 😉
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=74127#post74127
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=74127#post74127
Member
Joined 2002
Peter Daniel said:
Peter we should just ecnore those that are here to disturb. We all know he is jealous of your work to what he will never be able to come close to.
To my question should i clear coat ?
Well, I usually don't recommend claercoating on aluminum. I always prefer the natural aluminum appearance.
Anodizing would be a better choice, but for a single piece may be too expensive ($100 or more).
I usually use alodine in such cases, which can be compared to using sealer on wood. It will protect against corrosion, staining and discoloration, but not against scratches.
Using clearcoat is more or less like anodizing, it just looks less professional, sort of like the rims on the car 😉
Anodizing would be a better choice, but for a single piece may be too expensive ($100 or more).
I usually use alodine in such cases, which can be compared to using sealer on wood. It will protect against corrosion, staining and discoloration, but not against scratches.
Using clearcoat is more or less like anodizing, it just looks less professional, sort of like the rims on the car 😉
Member
Joined 2002
Member
Joined 2002
Peter and Jleaman -
I seriously doubt Poobah's intention is to annoy or criticise out of sheer jealousy. Poobah is concerned about the potential dangers, especially for a novice who may not have noticed the push board in your picture or thought it essential.
Like it or not Peter, when you post about technique, you are teaching - your craftsmanship is inspiring and most who work with metal aspire to come somewhat close to it. When you describe a potentially dangerous technique without a mention of its dangers a novice might take it as a proper technique and hurt himself. Your years of experience have taught you to sense when you are pushing too hard and kickback is imminent. The novice does not have that touch and may hurt himself. Just because you haven't been hurt doesn't mean that it is an inherently safe process.
I also think that you misunderstood Poobah's suggestion. He describes what is known as a miter sled. It rides in the EXISTING miter slots. It allows clamping the stock and makes the whole operation safer. It is similar to what you do, but a more permanent fixture so you don't need to hunt down appropriate sized scraps of wood. Here is one of the first ones that came up in a search. http://www.newwoodworker.com/mitrsldpln.html
Peter, I hope that you can accept your position as one of the DIYAudio metalworking "grand poobahs" and point out potential dangers of your techniques to those who aspire to your level of craftsmanship.
I seriously doubt Poobah's intention is to annoy or criticise out of sheer jealousy. Poobah is concerned about the potential dangers, especially for a novice who may not have noticed the push board in your picture or thought it essential.
Like it or not Peter, when you post about technique, you are teaching - your craftsmanship is inspiring and most who work with metal aspire to come somewhat close to it. When you describe a potentially dangerous technique without a mention of its dangers a novice might take it as a proper technique and hurt himself. Your years of experience have taught you to sense when you are pushing too hard and kickback is imminent. The novice does not have that touch and may hurt himself. Just because you haven't been hurt doesn't mean that it is an inherently safe process.
I also think that you misunderstood Poobah's suggestion. He describes what is known as a miter sled. It rides in the EXISTING miter slots. It allows clamping the stock and makes the whole operation safer. It is similar to what you do, but a more permanent fixture so you don't need to hunt down appropriate sized scraps of wood. Here is one of the first ones that came up in a search. http://www.newwoodworker.com/mitrsldpln.html
Peter, I hope that you can accept your position as one of the DIYAudio metalworking "grand poobahs" and point out potential dangers of your techniques to those who aspire to your level of craftsmanship.
herm said:
Thanks Herm!
herm said:
I'm also using a sled I made out of baltic birch which helps in the accuracy and safety of the cuts. Plus, you can clamp the piece to the sled if needed. Works great.
Charged said:
I don't think it requires one either, but Panomaniac recommeded it. I've run my T-Amp for hours at moderate levels with no signs of any heat issues.
Charged said:
5 amp regulated SMPS found at a local electronics/surplus store.
jleaman said:
I've got some glass beads that I'm going to try, followed up with a clear flat/matte powder coat finish. I've been able to get nice results with a clear powder coat finish - looks very similar to an anodized finish.
-Ken
As a woodworker
I just wanted to chime in and back poobah on his "accusations" about Peter Daniel's cutting method. He's not trying to bully anyone, he's trying to point out the dangers involved in the picture you showed. When I saw it, (mind you, I didn't look at the larger image, just the thumbnail) I cringed. From what I saw, I saw hands very close to an unprotected blade. I'm not going to go into an argument about using the blade guard on a table saw (don't use mine) but I will argue about having hands that close to a spinning blade. Not to mention the possible kick-back issue. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't happen.
Poobah isn't trying to make Peter look bad, just trying to prevent other people from trying the same technique and getting hurt. Same concept as the no TV fix policy on this board. If you know what you're doing, you can get away with doing the more dangerous things, but, if you're new at it, you want to learn the safer ways first. I'll also third the suggestion for a miter sled as well. I think you just mis-interpreted what they meant by the slots it rides in. So, no, Peter we're not really picking on you, just concerned that someone will try the same technique before they fully understand everything and get hurt.
I just wanted to chime in and back poobah on his "accusations" about Peter Daniel's cutting method. He's not trying to bully anyone, he's trying to point out the dangers involved in the picture you showed. When I saw it, (mind you, I didn't look at the larger image, just the thumbnail) I cringed. From what I saw, I saw hands very close to an unprotected blade. I'm not going to go into an argument about using the blade guard on a table saw (don't use mine) but I will argue about having hands that close to a spinning blade. Not to mention the possible kick-back issue. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't happen.
Poobah isn't trying to make Peter look bad, just trying to prevent other people from trying the same technique and getting hurt. Same concept as the no TV fix policy on this board. If you know what you're doing, you can get away with doing the more dangerous things, but, if you're new at it, you want to learn the safer ways first. I'll also third the suggestion for a miter sled as well. I think you just mis-interpreted what they meant by the slots it rides in. So, no, Peter we're not really picking on you, just concerned that someone will try the same technique before they fully understand everything and get hurt.
Re: As a woodworker
As a woodworker, you should know that using miter sled never produces enough accuracy. Working with metal I need tolerances of at least 0.005" and it's not possible with mitre sled. The main issue here is free play of a guide in a slot, holding the piece by hand is not practical (to achieve accuracy); you need to clamp it, and when cutting 1/4" thick plates clamping is out of question.
When checking out the size of the cut, I sometimes do 10 adjustements, moving the fence just by a tiny hair, and I can't imagine using what you propose to achieve the results I'm after.
Besides, the slots are usually left of the blade, and using that side, I would never feel comfortable enough, for my personal safety.
As to picking issue, talk to jleamam, not me. I've been here long enough to know that this is not the case: talking about metal cutting has always been a controversial topic.
You want to do it in a really safe manner, use a slider and clamp the metal piece to the table (for longer cuts): http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=376825&stamp=1082553853
That's how I cut my first piece of aluminum.
For some reason, aluminum is much more forgiving to kick-backs, I actually never experienced one. It is not the case with wood though.
Schaef said:
As a woodworker, you should know that using miter sled never produces enough accuracy. Working with metal I need tolerances of at least 0.005" and it's not possible with mitre sled. The main issue here is free play of a guide in a slot, holding the piece by hand is not practical (to achieve accuracy); you need to clamp it, and when cutting 1/4" thick plates clamping is out of question.
When checking out the size of the cut, I sometimes do 10 adjustements, moving the fence just by a tiny hair, and I can't imagine using what you propose to achieve the results I'm after.
Besides, the slots are usually left of the blade, and using that side, I would never feel comfortable enough, for my personal safety.
As to picking issue, talk to jleamam, not me. I've been here long enough to know that this is not the case: talking about metal cutting has always been a controversial topic.
You want to do it in a really safe manner, use a slider and clamp the metal piece to the table (for longer cuts): http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=376825&stamp=1082553853
That's how I cut my first piece of aluminum.
For some reason, aluminum is much more forgiving to kick-backs, I actually never experienced one. It is not the case with wood though.
I think the term mitre sled is incorrect. What we're talking about here is a sled that slides on both tracks, right and left of the blade. Some might interpret it as the cheap little mitre thingy that comes with the table saw.
I can get that on my "sled". The accuracy depends on how well the sled is made. Mine has absolutely no slop in the tracks and is very accurate. If I ever get the time I'll make another one out of aluminum.
-Ken
I can get that on my "sled". The accuracy depends on how well the sled is made. Mine has absolutely no slop in the tracks and is very accurate. If I ever get the time I'll make another one out of aluminum.
-Ken
Very few tables have tracks on both sides of the blade, mine doesn't.
You also need to use clamps. How do you clamp 10 x 10 plate, 1/4 thick?
You also need to use clamps. How do you clamp 10 x 10 plate, 1/4 thick?
Makita and Porter Cable tabletop saws appear to have miter slots on both sides of the blade, as do most "contractor" or better saws. Even the $99 Sears special has slots on both sides. I'm surprised that you haven't worn out your saw and moved up to a more professional grade tool.
The accuracy of a miter sled's (as opposed to miter gauge) cut is determined by the precision of the fit of the guides in the table slots. There are kits available that make adjusting the guide/slot fit a breeze and even include micro-adjustable stops to replace the fence in Peter's technique.
As for clamping a 10" x 10" plate, I'd use a few of these or similar mounted on the sled's deck.
C'mon Peter, please lose the defensive posture. We all know of old timers who did things that we can't believe they got away with. The definition of safe methods of work changes over time. Heck, when I was a kid working with fiberglass, rather than get sweaty hands wearing gloves, I washed my hands with acetone when the job was done. The old timer I was helping did the same. Not smart, but I got away with it as far as I can tell.
Please encourage SAFE operation so the next potential metalworking star doesn't lose body parts along the way.
The accuracy of a miter sled's (as opposed to miter gauge) cut is determined by the precision of the fit of the guides in the table slots. There are kits available that make adjusting the guide/slot fit a breeze and even include micro-adjustable stops to replace the fence in Peter's technique.
As for clamping a 10" x 10" plate, I'd use a few of these or similar mounted on the sled's deck.
C'mon Peter, please lose the defensive posture. We all know of old timers who did things that we can't believe they got away with. The definition of safe methods of work changes over time. Heck, when I was a kid working with fiberglass, rather than get sweaty hands wearing gloves, I washed my hands with acetone when the job was done. The old timer I was helping did the same. Not smart, but I got away with it as far as I can tell.
Please encourage SAFE operation so the next potential metalworking star doesn't lose body parts along the way.
I cut alloy plates the same way as Peter Daniel.
I guess i beat him by 20 years or so, i grew up in a machine shop, can't remember ever wearing safety gloves there.
The guy with all the safety gear gave me a good laugh too.
Then, if you like i can post some pictures of my hands, i've got more scars and stitch scars than fingers. I've been a guest at ER twice for getting metal parts in my eyeball because of not wearing safety glasses.
Funny thing : i've worked as a rad tech, spent one week a month at ER. The best joke to tell a woodworker who comes round because he has sawn his finger off is still that you'll be seeing him again in six months.
I can't help myself, but i advise people not to do this unless you've had the same misprogramming for years.
Bob, i'll get rid of the aceton this very day.
I guess i beat him by 20 years or so, i grew up in a machine shop, can't remember ever wearing safety gloves there.
The guy with all the safety gear gave me a good laugh too.
Then, if you like i can post some pictures of my hands, i've got more scars and stitch scars than fingers. I've been a guest at ER twice for getting metal parts in my eyeball because of not wearing safety glasses.
Funny thing : i've worked as a rad tech, spent one week a month at ER. The best joke to tell a woodworker who comes round because he has sawn his finger off is still that you'll be seeing him again in six months.
I can't help myself, but i advise people not to do this unless you've had the same misprogramming for years.
Bob, i'll get rid of the aceton this very day.
Member
Joined 2002
I dunno about you people but my body is more important than my metal work aperances 🙂
Peter i sent you a email.. ( pm )
Is there a such device as a hole saw like for wood that would work on aluminum ?
Peter i sent you a email.. ( pm )
Is there a such device as a hole saw like for wood that would work on aluminum ?
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