Indeed, I would think that there can't be many DACs besides the DAC3 HGC that can feed my stock F4's SE inputs to drive my ancient 4-way (15" woofers) floor standing sealed bedroom TV speakers WAY too loud for my ears 10 feet way. But with most of my DVDs/BDs, since my Oppo 95 player can't do that, though it and the DAC3's unbalanced outputs are ~ 2V, would not DAC output impedance vs. frequency determine the loading effects on the F4 amp's inputs , and thereby its output power?
While the Oppo 95 manual doesn't cite the output impedance, this engineer measures 100 ohms overall. https://www.jensign.com/bdp95/headphones/index.html
Another DAC option is the Bryston BDA-3, but where Atkinson's measurements found the unbalanced output impedance changing considerably with frequency.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/bryston-bda-3-da-processor-measurements
Luckily, Atkinson also ran measurements on the DAC3 HGC which remained at 30 ohms across the audible range. https://www.stereophile.com/content...preamplifier-headphone-amplifier-measurements
However, I would still like to know why the Bryston's output impedance, however much audibly relevant, varied so much with frequency, while the Benchmark's didn't.
But it certainly does look like the DAC3 might drive my F4 amp every bit as well as a Pass Labs preamp or line stage.
My only other concern is that the audio quality of most DVD/BD movies in my collection range from good to very good to excellent. But however the Oppo's ESS and Pioneer's AKM DAC chips and output stages have characterized what I've long been hearing, how likely will I be dismayed by what the DAC3 may reveal about my sources?
I'd gladly spend ~ $2.5K more than the DAC3's price for a DAC that was clearly better across all performance parameters, but I doubt that would be too easy. And the DAC3 also clobbers intersample overs distortion natively, rather than having to do so via your software player.
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/ap...-in-cd-recordings?_pos=1&_sid=0eeb1f150&_ss=r
https://gearspace.com/board/mastering-forum/1401406-intersample-clipping-audible.html
OTOH, some user comparisons of the Bryston vs. DAC3 had the former sounding "relaxed" and the latter sounding "thin". https://www.stereophile.com/content/benchmark-dac3-hgc-da-preamplifier-headphone-amplifier
And while the DAC3 won praise for its sound stage size and dimensionality, users here found the Exasound-using the same ESS DAC chip-did that better, and with more "detailed treble".
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/61748-benchmark-dac3-vs-‘higher-end’-dacs/
Perhaps splitting hairs here, if over "subjective" comparisons, but please share experiences and suggestions.
In any case, what other DACs have SE outputs with ~ 30 ohm impedance and flat across the AF range to drive the F4
as loud as the DAC3 HGC?
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6sX7 Please keep in touch about what you learn. I am also beginning to wonder about the SB Acoustic woofers. The very bottom of the bass response falls off just a bit in my Halcyons and I woudl like to see if that can be corrected.
In addition, I have now purchased a matched pair of MAOP10 drivers that I will be trying to see if I can get rid of the high-frequency congestion I hear in the A10p. It just just might be that I will need to go to active crossovers to get that working, and it will take me some time to afford that hardware. In any event, I will let all of you know on this thread what I learn.
One more comment, I don't have a second set of Benchmard DAC3 and AH2B amplifier to do an active crossover, and it will be hard to leave those devices out of the experiments. I definitely hear the best audio in my home using those two really amazing pieces of hardware. But they cost a a lot and I may never be able to afford another pair (I am now retired from full time engineering). Oh Well.
-david BTW
Have you tried buying that stuff used?
I got my RME ADI2 Pro RS ( AD/DAC) used, less than a year old, for 40% off. With everything, all parts, perfect shape. It just took lots of looking for one.
BTW:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2660773531...customid=6ac57ae6-0d53-11ee-b941-386436396564
I got my RME ADI2 Pro RS ( AD/DAC) used, less than a year old, for 40% off. With everything, all parts, perfect shape. It just took lots of looking for one.
BTW:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2660773531...customid=6ac57ae6-0d53-11ee-b941-386436396564
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@oltos You may want to lodge your inquiry in the Pass Labs forum as you will find a plethora of folks with F4 experience to pull from: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/forums/pass-labs.8/
@davebtw , I have been anxiously awaiting Madisound receiving stock of the Markaudio CHP-90s. They've sworn that they were in the last order and expected them by the end of May. I've been checking their website once a week with little luck. I'll ping them again sometime towards July. Will keep apprised of any progress.
I will be staying tuned for any updates on the MAOP 10. If the CHP-90s aren't actually getting stocked, I need to find something different.
I did buy floor demos of the Benchmark pieces and my RME fireface 802 I use for recording was used as is my RME Babyface which I use for streaming.
On speakers. I got tired of waiting for Madisound so I ordered my Maop10s from KJF audio in the UK and they were in stock and cost less. You might want to check them out.
On speakers. I got tired of waiting for Madisound so I ordered my Maop10s from KJF audio in the UK and they were in stock and cost less. You might want to check them out.
Just for the budget-minded hell of it, last night I plugged my Halcyons into an Aiyima A07 (available as upgrade from Aiyima with LM4562 op amp pre-installed), Meanwell power brick (36V, 4.4A), WiiM mini, and SMSL Sanskrit II DAC. Total cost $350 shipped, including $18 Meanwell adapter.
I gotta tell ya, it sounded pretty good. Plenty of power, bass (that’s never a problem with Halcyons), tone and detail. It made me re-think the whole “diminishing returns” argument. I used to think it started at a grand or so, now I think it starts at under $400 plus speakers.
My next super budget exploration will be the Tube Depot TubeCube 7 with EL84s.
I gotta tell ya, it sounded pretty good. Plenty of power, bass (that’s never a problem with Halcyons), tone and detail. It made me re-think the whole “diminishing returns” argument. I used to think it started at a grand or so, now I think it starts at under $400 plus speakers.
My next super budget exploration will be the Tube Depot TubeCube 7 with EL84s.
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Alanhuth, funny that I also have a Tube Depot Tubecube7 toof. But I have not tried it on my Halcyons. I have two old knight EL84 monoblock amps one of which I built in Jr High I am hpoing to rebuild with new circuitry and transformers. I had planned on driving the Halcyons with those as well.
I still find them very pleasant to listen to on my Benchmark system however. Just a few days ago I was listening to some 1980 pop and they sounded great on that.
f
I still find them very pleasant to listen to on my Benchmark system however. Just a few days ago I was listening to some 1980 pop and they sounded great on that.
f
Going to put this here for now. Once I get enough substance to an actual build, will move to a stand-alone thread. Got the CHP-90s in and currently running some low level music thru them. Obviously no bass but the vocals and higher sound good. Nothing really sticks out as offensive. Will let these keep playing at low level for a few days. Then put them aside until I can get some measurement equipment. More to come.
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Not much progress on the Halcyon Redux. However, I'm sitting here listening to Shostakovich's 11th performed by the BSO conducted by Andris Nelsons. The Halcyons are very easily keeping up with some very impressive bass drum thwacks in the 2nd movement. This is also one of the first DG recordings I've heard in awhile with pinpoint soundstage. Goosebumps!
I was thinking of doing a Halcyon build and I have been reading this thread. Bob lists the flat pack as sold out as sold out but Madisound has a link to one. I also emailed Bob and asked when or if his flat pack would be available again. I also have and F6 and I was following the comments about the F6 and the possibility of bridged balanced F6 s - Did anyone try this? Also I was thinking of a digital crossover with a more powerful amp for the bass. Has anyone tried this?
You'd have to wait for Bob's reply. I saw mention of birch plywood sourcing issues but not sure where that got to and if it has any effect on current flatpack availability.
Yes, I built balanced F6 monsterblocks. You may sweat from the Class A biasing but they won't when driving the Halcyons. I have switched to the F4 boards to try something new and will be going to the M2x at some point in the future.
I have not gotten to trying a digital x-over but have plans for trying an analog line-level x-over. As behaved as the drivers are, should not be an issue implementing.
Yes, I built balanced F6 monsterblocks. You may sweat from the Class A biasing but they won't when driving the Halcyons. I have switched to the F4 boards to try something new and will be going to the M2x at some point in the future.
I have not gotten to trying a digital x-over but have plans for trying an analog line-level x-over. As behaved as the drivers are, should not be an issue implementing.
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btw, The F4 documentation puts balanced output to be 100W. @6L6 got a chance to test the F6 monsterblock output while I was living in Denver. We saw about 80W before the 1kHz test tone started flattening out. Tagging him to see if he wanted to add anything or remember the test setup details better.
I had excellent results with Bob’s flat packs. Bob is a great guy. Another guy who may have them is Leland at Speaker Hardware. https://www.speakerhardware.com/halcyon-tower-flat-pack.php. I have never built his kits, but his videos show attention to detail. He uses pocket screws (Kreg) and biscuits, I think. Should be very nice. I spoke to him a few times, and he seems like a solid person to do business with.
As far as F6 goes, that seems like excess power for these speakers. I’m sure it will sound great, but I can’t imagine that the extra 80+ watts you get over a regular First Watt amp will be noticeable. But that is speculation. Never heard it. I did have my Halcyons hooked up to 200+ watts of Purifi amp for a while, but I didn’t like it as much as the 20+ watt Aleph J. Soon my Halcyons will be powered by an ST-35 clone I’m in the process of assembling. I’ll let you know how that goes. It has about 17 watts per side, I think. Should be plenty.
As far as F6 goes, that seems like excess power for these speakers. I’m sure it will sound great, but I can’t imagine that the extra 80+ watts you get over a regular First Watt amp will be noticeable. But that is speculation. Never heard it. I did have my Halcyons hooked up to 200+ watts of Purifi amp for a while, but I didn’t like it as much as the 20+ watt Aleph J. Soon my Halcyons will be powered by an ST-35 clone I’m in the process of assembling. I’ll let you know how that goes. It has about 17 watts per side, I think. Should be plenty.
slow progress. Finally have all the drivers in hand. Something feels a bit like overkill. Next step is measurements. A buddy is building a twin pair as he's interested and setup to cut the panels for the boxes. Sent him a Parts Express DATS as he uses Windows so he'll be taking the T/S and impedance measurements. We still haven't worked out the cabinet configuration (ported vs. sealed; front firing vs. side firing woofers). After living with these Halcyons, I'd like a smaller cabinet. I'm looking at these 8" woofers, second guessing current choices.
Next major step is putting together a frequency measurement setup and learning the ins and outs of taking measurements.
Next major step is putting together a frequency measurement setup and learning the ins and outs of taking measurements.
@6sX7 Yes, I got the ST-35 clone working. Mostly. I have some hum that is annoying and I haven’t tracked it down yet. But it sounds pretty good. I haven’t hooked it up to the Halcyons yet as I’m still in the basement with the amp trying to figure out where this hum is coming from.
This is the amp:
https://dynacotubeaudio.forumotion.com/t5016-new-spin-for-st-35-design#48518
The tubes were set a little (lot) hot when I took the photo but I like the look. Now they don’t glow nearly as much.
This is the amp:
https://dynacotubeaudio.forumotion.com/t5016-new-spin-for-st-35-design#48518
The tubes were set a little (lot) hot when I took the photo but I like the look. Now they don’t glow nearly as much.
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