Thanks Dave for the reminder. A couple of things:
1- I think for the two woofers the round under will be fine.
2- For the A10p definitely a 45° chamfer is preferred. That is what we would have had if the inner baffle had not been assembled incorrectly. Since these are assembled our options are extremely limited. We have to do this from the outside of an assembled cabinet.
3- I have been able to locate a so called "Round Under" router bit that will work in a freehand router (not on a table router). https://www.freudtools.com/explore/router-cnc/solid-surface/under-rounding-for-bull-nose
4. I have not been able to find a under bevel or chamfer type bit. It is an inverted bit with the bearing on the other side. If you know of where I can obtain such an item please let me know.
5. So my only other option is to rasp it out by hand or live with the round-under 3/8" that I have.
-david BTW
1- I think for the two woofers the round under will be fine.
2- For the A10p definitely a 45° chamfer is preferred. That is what we would have had if the inner baffle had not been assembled incorrectly. Since these are assembled our options are extremely limited. We have to do this from the outside of an assembled cabinet.
3- I have been able to locate a so called "Round Under" router bit that will work in a freehand router (not on a table router). https://www.freudtools.com/explore/router-cnc/solid-surface/under-rounding-for-bull-nose
4. I have not been able to find a under bevel or chamfer type bit. It is an inverted bit with the bearing on the other side. If you know of where I can obtain such an item please let me know.
5. So my only other option is to rasp it out by hand or live with the round-under 3/8" that I have.
-david BTW
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Internal round over all done. New woofers are here. Drilled holes for mounting drivers. Touched up tung oil finish in a few places. Putting in foam into A10p sonotubes and stuffing this afternoon. Crossover T-nuts drilled and installed. Smoothed and sanded the inside baffle roundover to smooth behind the drivers. All that is left is mounting the drivers after that.
Still wondering if I should use polyfil rather that acousta-stuff. Got more teasing to do. Thoughts?
-david BTW
Still wondering if I should use polyfil rather that acousta-stuff. Got more teasing to do. Thoughts?
-david BTW
No you still have to tease it. Polyfill might be easier to tease but likely near 2x as much for similar damping.
dave
dave
Thanks again Dave planet10. It is nice to get a quick answer from someone who knows. I was unaware of the difference between the too stuffings and drew the wrong conclusion about the use of polyfil as that is what the designer used. I though the comments pointed toward it being more desirable, but I believe your experience bailed me out. So I will follow 6sX7's advice and put 12oz of properly teased acousta-stuf behind each woofer, and 6 oz in the center chamber. That will be my starting point.
After more than 3 hours of teasing, I got enough teased to fill one Halcyon cabinet, and also put in the foam for the A10p. So I will now start teasing the rest for speaker 2. It really does take a long time to properly tease it out as Dave planet10 told us. We are almost there.
Needless to say, a lot of break-in on the woofers will be needed before I make any conclusions on the sound. Perhaps on the Memorial day holiday, I can get the other one finished and mount the drivers.
Thanks for all the patience on this thread. I am an expert at audio electronic design, but having only built one speaker in the past leaves me wanting in experience and knowledge. I really appreciate all of you who have helped on this thread.
-david BTW
After more than 3 hours of teasing, I got enough teased to fill one Halcyon cabinet, and also put in the foam for the A10p. So I will now start teasing the rest for speaker 2. It really does take a long time to properly tease it out as Dave planet10 told us. We are almost there.
Needless to say, a lot of break-in on the woofers will be needed before I make any conclusions on the sound. Perhaps on the Memorial day holiday, I can get the other one finished and mount the drivers.
Thanks for all the patience on this thread. I am an expert at audio electronic design, but having only built one speaker in the past leaves me wanting in experience and knowledge. I really appreciate all of you who have helped on this thread.
-david BTW
davebtw,
Just to add a little info, I read that the "Acoustastuff" material is a tri-lobal hollow fiber and the "Dacron" poly-fill hollow fibers are round. I have used both, and they feel a slightly different to touch - acoustastuff feels a little softer, a little stringier, and more like cotton, while the dacron fill feels a little more slippery, and more like polyester. Some of the images on the internet show a close resemblance, so some of the perceived difference can also be also due to different level of teasing.
Just to add a little info, I read that the "Acoustastuff" material is a tri-lobal hollow fiber and the "Dacron" poly-fill hollow fibers are round. I have used both, and they feel a slightly different to touch - acoustastuff feels a little softer, a little stringier, and more like cotton, while the dacron fill feels a little more slippery, and more like polyester. Some of the images on the internet show a close resemblance, so some of the perceived difference can also be also due to different level of teasing.
Some more words of encouragement as you get into the home stretch. Just got my balanced F6s done. First test album was the soundtrack for Gladiator. I kept turning it up and up and up. No hint of strain, glare, hardness coming from the Halcyons. Soundstage is amazing. Good width and placement. Some depth but I need to work on the speaker placement and room treatment. Lisa Gerrard's voice is amazing and can finally hear the space around it.
Zman, you were spot on. Now that I'm feeding them 100W of high quality amplification, the Halcyons have gone up another level. I'm wondering what upgrading the x-over parts will do.
Zman, you were spot on. Now that I'm feeding them 100W of high quality amplification, the Halcyons have gone up another level. I'm wondering what upgrading the x-over parts will do.
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Well at long last, they are playing here in my office. This is the first time I have heard A10p drivers, and I am very pleased with how they sound for sure. They are the match of my other system and perhaps a little better, time will tell. When fed good material they are just beautiful to listen to. So dynamic and clean. Of course thanks to Dave Planet10 for the EnABLed A10p drivers..
I know the bass isn't quite right but breaking in and some tweaking will help for sure. I wonder if the balance is off just a bit because I have the newer version of the SB woofers that are a bit less sensitive. Also the bass doesn't go down quite a low as I had hoped, but frankly they sound terrific and actually better than I expected. Of course i am driving them right now with my own DAC design (From my full time work) into the Benchmark ABH2 amp. I think I can definitely live with them.
I am feeding them right now at 96K 24 bit playback from my work product (bit accurate) playing the "World's Greatest Audiophile Vocal Recordings" from Chesky and downloaded it from HDTracks as 96K flac and the Halcyons are handling it all very, very well. The lowest note of the bass on Spanish Harlem is a bit weak perhaps that can be solved eventually. Break-in, room placement, stuffing etc. I have high hoped we will get there.
I ordered my first parts in August of 2020 from Madisound, and the flat pack from Big Wood Studio in July of the same year. The A10p from Dave Planet10 were first in May of 2020. It has been a long road, interrupted by illness, COVID, family issues, and just too much full-time work. But at last they are playing.
I can recommend for sure.
-david BTW
I know the bass isn't quite right but breaking in and some tweaking will help for sure. I wonder if the balance is off just a bit because I have the newer version of the SB woofers that are a bit less sensitive. Also the bass doesn't go down quite a low as I had hoped, but frankly they sound terrific and actually better than I expected. Of course i am driving them right now with my own DAC design (From my full time work) into the Benchmark ABH2 amp. I think I can definitely live with them.
I am feeding them right now at 96K 24 bit playback from my work product (bit accurate) playing the "World's Greatest Audiophile Vocal Recordings" from Chesky and downloaded it from HDTracks as 96K flac and the Halcyons are handling it all very, very well. The lowest note of the bass on Spanish Harlem is a bit weak perhaps that can be solved eventually. Break-in, room placement, stuffing etc. I have high hoped we will get there.
I ordered my first parts in August of 2020 from Madisound, and the flat pack from Big Wood Studio in July of the same year. The A10p from Dave Planet10 were first in May of 2020. It has been a long road, interrupted by illness, COVID, family issues, and just too much full-time work. But at last they are playing.
I can recommend for sure.
-david BTW
davebtw,
Congratulations on completing the speakers!
It's also good to know that the initial impressions are positive. Hopefully things will improve further with adjustments to the stuffing and with more hours on the drivers. Enjoy!
Congratulations on completing the speakers!
It's also good to know that the initial impressions are positive. Hopefully things will improve further with adjustments to the stuffing and with more hours on the drivers. Enjoy!
Congratulations on getting them done and glad they meet expectations. All that time and effort and now the rewards.
Once I got a good DAC on the Alpairs, I was astounded with the top end for being a 6" driver.
Happy listening!
Once I got a good DAC on the Alpairs, I was astounded with the top end for being a 6" driver.
Happy listening!
I totaled it up last night and I probably spent nearly 10 hours teasing the acousta-stuf. All the time hoping that effort would help them perform better.
-david BTW
-david BTW
Here are two photos of the left channel speaker. This is not their permanent home, but temporary to do first listening. You will note that I used Speakon connectors to connect the drivers to the crossover. It isn't too handsome, but it works. I divided it up in a way that I could use external crossover/amp. These are not furniture speakers but functional so they don't look too fancy, but they work and that is what I wanted.
I have also checked all drivers with my polarity checker in the AudioTools from Studio Six Digital and they are all positive polarity first time.
Back to work!
I have also checked all drivers with my polarity checker in the AudioTools from Studio Six Digital and they are all positive polarity first time.
Back to work!
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I am quite surprised at how much the bass has changed in the first 5 or 6 hours of listening. It isn't just my ears getting used to them. The low extension is getting better by the hour.
I think that the A10p is probably a little too loud for the newer SB woofers. I will let it breaking a bit more but that is my current feeling. Curt said they the output level will be down a little and I think it really is. I know this was discussed earlier in this long thread, but that is tonight's conclusion.
I did a quick and dirty RTA on it yesterday with pink noise and it looks like a shelf above the crossover frequency. That isn't accurate enough to go by but is one data point.
-david BTW
I think that the A10p is probably a little too loud for the newer SB woofers. I will let it breaking a bit more but that is my current feeling. Curt said they the output level will be down a little and I think it really is. I know this was discussed earlier in this long thread, but that is tonight's conclusion.
I did a quick and dirty RTA on it yesterday with pink noise and it looks like a shelf above the crossover frequency. That isn't accurate enough to go by but is one data point.
-david BTW