Re: This is long - Sorry....
Same here. If Steve didn't post in transformer's thread that he has some 25-0-25 toroids, I wouldn't end up buying from him 13 pcs. altogether and I would have missed a great deal. So I would even encourage him to post more frequently, whenever he seems like having other bargains.
So far I didn't notice any in-your-face advertising on a forum, with one exception of a guy posting about music samples, which nobody seemed to be interested in anyway.😉
Apogee said:
Same here. If Steve didn't post in transformer's thread that he has some 25-0-25 toroids, I wouldn't end up buying from him 13 pcs. altogether and I would have missed a great deal. So I would even encourage him to post more frequently, whenever he seems like having other bargains.
Apogee said:
So far I didn't notice any in-your-face advertising on a forum, with one exception of a guy posting about music samples, which nobody seemed to be interested in anyway.😉
cdl,cdl said:
Yes, you are correct, I shouldn't generalize to make my point which is what I did. For this I apologize. Continued below.
I think you're right Jensen. I guess I was being too much the typical engineer in expecting to find that single clear cut answer. Silly me.purplepeople said:
There is a limit; there has to be. I think that is clear. IMO that limit was crossed by LC, maybe not blatantly so, but enough to be suspect. The response was probably a bit on the strong side (another moving line), but that coupled with LC's thin skin put an end (for now) to his posts.
This incident all took place over a 3 month span without any moderator intervention. I think this is ok. When I read many LC's posts (not having any particular need for his products) I get the feeling I'm being treated as a consumer, not a fellow DIY'er or even a student being presented with new knowedge. This left me thinking that LC was missing the spirit of our forum, either through naivety or by design. Maybe he was sincere, maybe he wasn't, you make the call.
I'm sorry he felt he had to leave (he's probably reading this), but maybe this is how we define the line. I guess, FWIW, I'm ok with that.
"I'm sorry he felt he had to leave........"
His decision, not ours.
In the past, there have been a few flagrant spammers; the mods moved them out quickly.
Also, on more than one occasion, some members have stepped over the line, and some of us took it upon ourselves to beat on them. We eventually sorted those situations out. Everyone involved I believe is still here. Things turned out ok without rewriting the rules.
No, anyone who turns tail after a few barbs thrown their way over a day or two probably wasn't one of us to begin with. I see no need to change policy for the exception.
Jocko
His decision, not ours.
In the past, there have been a few flagrant spammers; the mods moved them out quickly.
Also, on more than one occasion, some members have stepped over the line, and some of us took it upon ourselves to beat on them. We eventually sorted those situations out. Everyone involved I believe is still here. Things turned out ok without rewriting the rules.
No, anyone who turns tail after a few barbs thrown their way over a day or two probably wasn't one of us to begin with. I see no need to change policy for the exception.
Jocko
This is exactly the attitude that I have been alluding to in my previous posts. Please see below...
Again, more examples...
The point that I tried to get across is this. NOBODY should have to put up with what Lars was dealt. This should be a forum where ALL (the knowledgeable and the not) are welcomed whenever they show up.
What is the point of the constant barbs? I'd say GROW UP!!!!
As I mentioned previously, I feel we have all lost here.
How many other manufacturers or individuals are lurking that have never posted and have just watched what transpired and thought to themselves "screw them I'm never going to post there..." "Why bother, it's stress that I don't need..."
I can only imagine someone running a small (or large) business trying to balance everything that is going on and then also trying to make the time to take part in this forum on top of everything else because they love this hobby. Then to be subject to the constant badgering and smart a** remarks that are often posted in responses, I'd blow this forum off as well.
So again, in the end I feel we all have lost.
I would encourage all to treat each other with respect whether you agree with them or not. Lets try checking the bad attitudes and barbs at the door before logging-on... I think gentle encouragement to do the right thing (as well as referring to written forum "guidelines") will get us far further than being insulting and driving away members we don't agree with...
I think we should make every effort to eliminate the attitude of "who cares if they leave" and perhaps replace it with "lets do everything possible to grow this forum and make it even better." It's a challenge, but it can be done...
Perhaps we need a "Forum Attitude" thread...
This the end my only friend.... the end!
"So again, in the end I feel we all have lost."
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=246386#post246386
I said please..........
I get more abuse in 30 minutes than this guy got for his whole stay. Why, in fact, I think I feel some more coming right now....
"So again, in the end I feel we all have lost."
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=246386#post246386
I said please..........
I get more abuse in 30 minutes than this guy got for his whole stay. Why, in fact, I think I feel some more coming right now....
I suggest that you do it like Head-Fi has their site setup, with a special "Mall" section for commercial posts. To post an ad, you must pay a fee between $20 and $30, which depends on how much you post on the rest of the site.
Show me the money.........
Jason,
I think there have been enough moving boundaries on what actually constitutes a "group buy" and what the actual intent and rules are for the Trading Post section that it is time for some very specific definitions.
I think the concept for a group buy for volume discounts on items is a great thing and a service to members of the forum if everything is up front and the actual cost and the amount going to the person handling the purchase is public knowledge. I don't expect people to do things for free in general. There are plenty of things that this is useful for and not a problem if everything is out in the open.
The possibilities for abuse are many and I wonder if we are not unknowingly contributing to that by not knowing what the cost and profits are associated with many of these transactions. Despite the claims of it being a great deal for everybody I wonder if it might not be a better deal for the seller than buyers when the actual cost numbers are unknown. There is not even a problem with this when it is on the up and up. It is called capitalism and I am all for it. Getting a great deal for everyone and claims of possibly losing money on these deals strain credibility and put the claims of altruism under suspicion. The use of the Trading Post for other than one off sales, and as a research tool for how many of something to have fabricated (and potentially maximize the profits and minimize risk for the seller) seems to me to be not the intent for which it was created. a clear definition of what a group buy is for and if substantial profits are involved would clear up any confusion about where altruism starts and commerce begins. I here concerns about the cost of maintaining the forum and non committal talk about profits going to running the forum. If it is commerce, which a lot of this is, let them by advertising space to raise money for running the forum. Some of this talk about self sacrifice, loosing money, and doing it all for the group are becoming extremely hard to swallow. Even one or to moderators have strayed into areas well outside the gray area and into the area of taking advantage of the forum with what are hard to describe as anything but commerce. Doing this while pretending not to realize it or under claims of doing for the group are hypocrisy plain and simple and is becoming more of an issue of concern everyday.
Jason,
I think there have been enough moving boundaries on what actually constitutes a "group buy" and what the actual intent and rules are for the Trading Post section that it is time for some very specific definitions.
I think the concept for a group buy for volume discounts on items is a great thing and a service to members of the forum if everything is up front and the actual cost and the amount going to the person handling the purchase is public knowledge. I don't expect people to do things for free in general. There are plenty of things that this is useful for and not a problem if everything is out in the open.
The possibilities for abuse are many and I wonder if we are not unknowingly contributing to that by not knowing what the cost and profits are associated with many of these transactions. Despite the claims of it being a great deal for everybody I wonder if it might not be a better deal for the seller than buyers when the actual cost numbers are unknown. There is not even a problem with this when it is on the up and up. It is called capitalism and I am all for it. Getting a great deal for everyone and claims of possibly losing money on these deals strain credibility and put the claims of altruism under suspicion. The use of the Trading Post for other than one off sales, and as a research tool for how many of something to have fabricated (and potentially maximize the profits and minimize risk for the seller) seems to me to be not the intent for which it was created. a clear definition of what a group buy is for and if substantial profits are involved would clear up any confusion about where altruism starts and commerce begins. I here concerns about the cost of maintaining the forum and non committal talk about profits going to running the forum. If it is commerce, which a lot of this is, let them by advertising space to raise money for running the forum. Some of this talk about self sacrifice, loosing money, and doing it all for the group are becoming extremely hard to swallow. Even one or to moderators have strayed into areas well outside the gray area and into the area of taking advantage of the forum with what are hard to describe as anything but commerce. Doing this while pretending not to realize it or under claims of doing for the group are hypocrisy plain and simple and is becoming more of an issue of concern everyday.
Indeed, this is a difficult and sensitive issue. We're actively trying to put together an explicit policy in this regard. That it's taken as long as it has is purely my fault- travel, job search, and child-care commitments have temporarily slowed down my audio activities. Any ideas you have, email me- I'd be grateful.
I was almost ready to reply to Fred's comments, but I've noticed Jocko's signature and figured out it's better to say nothing.
Jocko Homo said:
mea culpa, mea maxima culpa
so if you buy 2k units or a couple reels of some nice opamps from some guy who's going bankrupt, and can dish them out at a fraction of the cost of the usual suspects, tell me, is this a venial or mortal sin?
When the tech-bubble was bursting in the US you could buy well (and I mean, very very well) equipped labs for pennies on the pound. If you want to pay full retail for some AD or Burr Brown instrumentation amps or ADC's go right ahead, but if you can offer the same stuff out at 10% of the cost of DK or Newark, what's the harm? Sounds like Monti-mania to me.
Why not classifieds on a section of DIYAUDIO -- some would pay to do so.
so if you buy 2k units or a couple reels of some nice opamps from some guy who's going bankrupt, and can dish them out at a fraction of the cost of the usual suspects, tell me, is this a venial or mortal sin?
When the tech-bubble was bursting in the US you could buy well (and I mean, very very well) equipped labs for pennies on the pound. If you want to pay full retail for some AD or Burr Brown instrumentation amps or ADC's go right ahead, but if you can offer the same stuff out at 10% of the cost of DK or Newark, what's the harm? Sounds like Monti-mania to me.
Why not classifieds on a section of DIYAUDIO -- some would pay to do so.
Silence is golden
"I was almost ready to reply to Fred's comments, but I've noticed Jocko's signature and figured out it's better to say nothing." -Peter Daniel
I guess that would be the easiest and safest way to respond......
when one is in the middle of a controversy. Considering the very real possibility of one digging himself in deeper, "and figured out it's better to say nothing." is the wisest course of action.
Or one can fall back on the always popular name calling tactic.
"*" - Magura
"I see you noticed it too" - Peter Daniel
For the more genteel readers I belive "*" is short hand for the word a_ _hole for use by guys that don't have the backbone to say what is really on their mind. Of course it is not really name calling to let someone else do the work and give your support afterwords and one could always pretend you didn't know what he meant. I guess Mr. Daniels was not wearing his moderator's hat and posted as just a member. A moderator would told him to knock it off if he didn't want too spend time in the sin bin. Maybe this was another of those times it's better to say nothing.........
I sure wish I could be a moderator and say and do whatever I felt like. Sounds like a pretty cushy job. Of couse you don't need to be a moderator if you have the guts to say something when you see a problem on the forum and will take your medicine when you are out of line.
Fred
"I was almost ready to reply to Fred's comments, but I've noticed Jocko's signature and figured out it's better to say nothing." -Peter Daniel
I guess that would be the easiest and safest way to respond......
when one is in the middle of a controversy. Considering the very real possibility of one digging himself in deeper, "and figured out it's better to say nothing." is the wisest course of action.
Or one can fall back on the always popular name calling tactic.
"*" - Magura
"I see you noticed it too" - Peter Daniel
For the more genteel readers I belive "*" is short hand for the word a_ _hole for use by guys that don't have the backbone to say what is really on their mind. Of course it is not really name calling to let someone else do the work and give your support afterwords and one could always pretend you didn't know what he meant. I guess Mr. Daniels was not wearing his moderator's hat and posted as just a member. A moderator would told him to knock it off if he didn't want too spend time in the sin bin. Maybe this was another of those times it's better to say nothing.........
I sure wish I could be a moderator and say and do whatever I felt like. Sounds like a pretty cushy job. Of couse you don't need to be a moderator if you have the guts to say something when you see a problem on the forum and will take your medicine when you are out of line.
Fred
Au contraire. I can't say the following words:
****
****
****
****
**********
************
****
And I believe that I can't say:
****
****
****
****
*****
Cushy? You wouldn't believe it. Cuban cigars, leather upholstered Barcaloungers, 200 year old Port, and girls, girls, girls.
But you can sell snakeoilstorys about resonance-sensitive opamps and special sounding resistors as a truth on this board without people dare to respeak if you are moderator. And more, you can make a business based on this snakeoilstorys.
I think who runs a busieness in the audio sector should not be a moderator. To much risk he influences the board with his economical interests.
I think who runs a busieness in the audio sector should not be a moderator. To much risk he influences the board with his economical interests.
Re: Silence is golden
The star was the first caracter my finger incidentally landed on when i deleted my post and the editor wouldnt allow me to leave the post blank. So, no name calling or rectums or whatever, just a random caracter.
I deleted the post cause i realised that Peter is right and any further posting about this subject would be in vain.
That Peter was right was just proven by Fred himself 🙂
Magura🙂
Fred Dieckmann said:
The star was the first caracter my finger incidentally landed on when i deleted my post and the editor wouldnt allow me to leave the post blank. So, no name calling or rectums or whatever, just a random caracter.
I deleted the post cause i realised that Peter is right and any further posting about this subject would be in vain.
That Peter was right was just proven by Fred himself 🙂
Magura🙂
I guess that you need to add Till to your "ignore list", Peter, as he agrees with me.
Imagine that......an American capaitalist and a European agreeing on commercialism. (Hey, I know that he has good taste in beer.....that must be the reason.)
Jocko
Imagine that......an American capaitalist and a European agreeing on commercialism. (Hey, I know that he has good taste in beer.....that must be the reason.)
Jocko
"so if you buy 2k units or a couple reels of some nice opamps from some guy who's going bankrupt, and can dish them out at a fraction of the cost of the usual suspects, tell me, is this a venial or mortal sin? "
Neither! If it were not for the surplus dealers I couldn't afford the hobby!
Neither! If it were not for the surplus dealers I couldn't afford the hobby!
Question: what would be the appropriate way for someone such at Peter Daniel, (or Rod Elliot before any of us had heard about him) to post something like "I have a new website that may be of interest to DIYers" ?
sam9 said:
I am going out to the Left Coast in April to visit my son in grad school -- he's told me that there are some really "dandy" electronics and aerospace surplus shops in Southern Cal !
most of us ham ops got started pulling apart TV's for the horizontal amplifier tubes, power transformers, rectifiers and capacitors -- then move up the food chain to modifying military surplus (i.e. my 1296 MHz transmitter, or BC348 receiver, or ARC5 transmitter.)
the best values in surplus right now seem to be heat sinks, smt active and passive components, copperclad boards --
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