I did a quick search, and found the 32930 driver - is that what you're referring to? I did wonder if elliptical drivers were used or manufactured! That's a cool piece of history you have there champco!
How do you use them in your system? Full range, or with a subwoofer, or part of a larger system?
To the best of my knowledge when the Beatles were recording in Abbey Road the main monitors were 15" Urei (Altec drivers I think) which were replaced by Tannoy DCs who in turn made way for Quested. Which they are still using except when contractual obligations demand that B&W are moved in for publicity shots etc.
What they had before the Ureis I do not know.
Matt ( designer) liked the 15, for it's dispersion and larger sound. I went with the 15 for that reason, and the fact that I didn't want to run subs on this system. I'm going to have a 6 cubic ft. cab, where the 12 can be ran in a 3.5 cubic ft. box. Size is of no relevance for me, but if you need a smaller box, there is that to think on. The Urei 604 based monitors are what turned me on to big coax's. I've laid tracks for hire at a studio that's a half hour drive away, and listening to those was the reason that I bought the Vortex15. They aren't accurate and neutral like the Meyer Sound, or ATC monitors, but they made my ears happy. Glenn.
I think there's something about the sound of 15" speakers in general that allow them to have a tone that is pleasing to the ear
I'd gravitate to the Vortex15 kit as well, and fortunately I could make some 6 cubic feet boxes work too.I imagine that you could run them with subs if you wanted, and this might allow for some flexibility in the midbass and midrange areas, though certainly not necessary.
You make a good point about accuracy and listening satisfaction! I suppose if you're a person who's mixing audio one tends to have reference tracks to compare so that they can mix on any system.
I'm definitely looking forward to hearing more about your progress with the Vortex15s!
Agreed, very encouraging! I wonder why Eminence themselves didn't think of that design!
With that in mind, does anyone here use the CX speakers with a compression driver in their stock form? If so, what are your thoughts?
Does anyone use the Celestion FTX drivers?
I also came across the B&C 15CXN88NH-8. It seems to have the same curvilinear design, but as far as I can tell it's a discontinued unit. Does anyone here have experience with that driver?
Given the other links that people have provided on this forum, there's a whole gamut of drivers to look at these days. Vintage and classic drivers from Tannoy, Great Plains Audio, EMI, and modern drivers from many more brands than I'd originally imagined. This thread so far is definitely turning out to be an eye-opener for me! Fun stuff
The crossover has the option of HF and LF pads also, and you could relieve the low end stress with a dsp between the coax and subs if you wanted to go that route. I very well may do that, but I want to see how they do on their own. I'm not a bass head, but I do like a touch warmer bottom end with punch, but not at the expense of clarity. Again, all subjective to each pair of ears. Glenn.
Same here. As a Bass player I like to hear the articulation of what I'm playing, rather than moving a massive column of air. Punch is far more useful!
i do not know, but many products seems to sell good even with sub optimal performance. in this case it is difficult to tell, from pics i have seen the standard drivers looks to a have a curvelinear profile too, and the small horn for the tweeter in the woofer motor structure is hard to say anything about since eminence does not present any measurements for it. i would never buy a driver based on the few measurements provided by eminence, i find it strange that they do not provide more info, same goes for many driver manufacturers
eminence coaxial drivers do not come with a high frequency driver, i am using 12cx with celestion cdx1-1446 compression driver, works a lot better then the apt-50 i used at first, but it would be fun to try the celestion cdx1-1748
fabricatebaco does, but the celestion coaxials looks to have quite poor tweeter response, similar to eminence none kappalite coaxials
i do not know anything about that driver, but b&c drivers seems all to be well made and presented with lots of measurements, compare that to phl drivers, or eminence, or radian, or great plains audio, or bms
yes, great plains audio coaxials are interesting, but it is a shame they do not provide any measurements on their drivers
For the Eminence beta 10 and 12 coaxials I have tried the following screw-ons (as explained in the previously linked threads):
APT50
ASD1001
PSD2002
D220Ti
I really like PSD2002 the most, especially with the 12”.
The sound is a bit dark but very crisp. Midrange is a bit muddy though, the 10 is better at that.
I can’t stand the Selenium, I can’t understand why it’s popular. Maybe it needs more play time but I just can’t listen to it. It rings.
If I buy the kappalite 12 I plan to combine with PSD2013 as yet an upgrade.
Regarding Celestion FTX 12 it sounds great.
I absolutely love the treble of it, crystal clear and little artifacts. Mid is also very good, better than Eminence.
Makes me think that measurements are not done in similar fashion because looking at the specs for the Celestions, I was in doubt. Maybe they measured before breakin.
Mind I use stock crossovers.
I’m sure DSP will be much better.
If you like big sound coax is the way to go I’m never going back to boring low sensitive hifi. Another great aspect is that these things are happy with a 40 w rotel and they play good both low and high volumes and near as well as far listening. I need a sub though I want to say that. Not much authority below 50hz.
edit: reading my own post I realize I may suffer some bias here - take it all with some salt
APT50
ASD1001
PSD2002
D220Ti
I really like PSD2002 the most, especially with the 12”.
The sound is a bit dark but very crisp. Midrange is a bit muddy though, the 10 is better at that.
I can’t stand the Selenium, I can’t understand why it’s popular. Maybe it needs more play time but I just can’t listen to it. It rings.
If I buy the kappalite 12 I plan to combine with PSD2013 as yet an upgrade.
Regarding Celestion FTX 12 it sounds great.
I absolutely love the treble of it, crystal clear and little artifacts. Mid is also very good, better than Eminence.
Makes me think that measurements are not done in similar fashion because looking at the specs for the Celestions, I was in doubt. Maybe they measured before breakin.
Mind I use stock crossovers.
I’m sure DSP will be much better.
If you like big sound coax is the way to go I’m never going back to boring low sensitive hifi. Another great aspect is that these things are happy with a 40 w rotel and they play good both low and high volumes and near as well as far listening. I need a sub though I want to say that. Not much authority below 50hz.
edit: reading my own post I realize I may suffer some bias here - take it all with some salt
Last edited:
Eminence already had the new coax's going prior to Erich working with them on the diysoundgroup Denovo version. Don't forget that a company like Eminence is focused on OEM and replacement pro market drivers, and the larger sales numbers that brings. They aren't designing for what we may be looking for. Output, durability, smaller enclosure, etc. Their 12 and 15 will, most likely, end up in wedge monitors, or flying in lighter, reasonably sized reinforcement setups. I run a 12 Turbosound coax for a vocal monitor and love it. Glenn.
I did eventually manage to find this page for the driver on their website. It looks pretty typical:
15CXN88 Coaxials - B&C Speakers
Do you think the lack of measurements could have been because they were designed for a particular enclosure and there wasn't really a need to publish them at the time?
I've recently spent a fair amount of time studying/evaluating coaxs on paper. I would recommend RCF and Radian Audio as being worth a close look. Radian has a family with ribbon tweeters and provides enough measurements to give you some confidence. RCF also provides measurements and uses a separate waveguide for the CD instead of using the woofer cone as a waveguide, which means you can allow more excursion on the woofer but also means you may need some felt on the baffle to help terminate the waveguide edge.
Thanks nc535, interesting finds there! Are you going to evaluate both of those, or are you planning on picking one to try out?
I was met with a swift 'no' from my wife when she saw the price of the Radian 5215B
For the Eminence beta 10 and 12 coaxials I have tried the following screw-ons (as explained in the previously linked threads):
APT50
ASD1001
PSD2002
D220Ti
I really like PSD2002 the most, especially with the 12”.
The sound is a bit dark but very crisp. Midrange is a bit muddy though, the 10 is better at that.
I can’t stand the Selenium, I can’t understand why it’s popular. Maybe it needs more play time but I just can’t listen to it. It rings.
If I buy the kappalite 12 I plan to combine with PSD2013 as yet an upgrade.
Regarding Celestion FTX 12 it sounds great.
I absolutely love the treble of it, crystal clear and little artifacts. Mid is also very good, better than Eminence.
Makes me think that measurements are not done in similar fashion because looking at the specs for the Celestions, I was in doubt. Maybe they measured before breakin.
Mind I use stock crossovers.
I’m sure DSP will be much better.
If you like big sound coax is the way to go I’m never going back to boring low sensitive hifi. Another great aspect is that these things are happy with a 40 w rotel and they play good both low and high volumes and near as well as far listening. I need a sub though I want to say that. Not much authority below 50hz.
edit: reading my own post I realize I may suffer some bias here - take it all with some salt
Thanks for the feedback! That's interesting to note that the Celestions sounded better when they didn't look favourable on paper.
I do like the idea of bolt-on compression drivers...I suppose it allows you to buy the woofer and the CD separately, meaning that you can mix and match based on your goals. Again, I wish my Yamaha JA-6681Bs weren't bolt-on, but I do have some screw on drivers from Pyle that I could use (though they're a little brittle with their sound) in the interim.
Then again, I started this thread with the idea of simplicity, so me personally might still enquire about the Vortex-15 kits. However, there's so much choice, and I have time to look into everyone's suggestions!
If the polars here are giving a true indication then these shouldn't sound too bad - Vortex Speaker Kits | HiFiCircuit . I can't see an indication that the crossover is doing anything significantly wrong based on this limited information. On the other hand I'd expect you to do some global equalising of your own as a matter of course.
As far as the waveguiding is concerned, I'd consider a nice big roundover starting near the edge of the cone. This will probably be overall a big enough waveguiding for the tweeter.
The roundover may not do too much for the woofer but I'd try to get baffle support in down to the Schroeder frequency for the room, kind of eliminate the 'baffle step' as an issue. So at the least I'd use a wider box, maybe a couple of feet wide.
As far as the waveguiding is concerned, I'd consider a nice big roundover starting near the edge of the cone. This will probably be overall a big enough waveguiding for the tweeter.
The roundover may not do too much for the woofer but I'd try to get baffle support in down to the Schroeder frequency for the room, kind of eliminate the 'baffle step' as an issue. So at the least I'd use a wider box, maybe a couple of feet wide.
Decide on size first. 10, 12 or 15. Depends on room I guess. Is 150l ok?
Then decide if you want a replaceable screw-on HF or a combined solution/shared magnet type. See what your budget is. That should narrow down to three or four drivers. Then there is availability. Everything is sold out these days. The pandemic have really changed the game.
I can say one negative thing about the betas that might help you go in another direction. The steel frame is very soft and bends if you do not have a perfect baffle cut out. From here on I only buy die cast aluminum.
Thanks nc535, interesting finds there! Are you going to evaluate both of those, or are you planning on picking one to try out?
I was met with a swift 'no' from my wife when she saw the price of the Radian 5215B
Ha! The last time I discussed starting construction of another speaker my wife thought there were better uses for my time. She also thought that the design I had in mind was too large and heavy and I had to agree. So I'm now looking at something built around a 6.5" or 8" waveguide or coax
yes, b&c drivers do look good, check out these kit also Kaiutinrakennusohje Piste - 8-, 12- ja 15-tuumaiset hifi-PA-koaksiaalit - AudioVideo
yes, that might be the cause, or they measures so badly that they can not show them, i do not know
the 8" coaxial matches the official data sheet quite good, so we can guess that the 12" driver matches as well. the most obvious are some deep and narrow notches in the tweeter output but that will most likely be inaudiable
Test Bench: Celestion FTX0820 8-inch Coaxial Woofer/Compression Driver | audioXpress
That was a good blog! They really seemed to like the 15" driver.
I found 4 of the 15CXN88s on eBay, but then realised that the horn that goes under the dust cap for the compression driver is missing, unfortunately. If anyone wants to take a look at them and fancies 'repairing' them, here's the listing:
B&C 15CXN88NH-8 15" Neodymium Coaxial Speaker 848864050645 | eBay
Right, I remember reading or watching somewhere that notches are less noticeable the ear compared to peaks, but again that's good news that Celestion drivers in the real world are matching their reported specs.