Since you asked for assistance.......
And being sincere here..........
Buy a 'scope. Stop guessing what goes on what pin and measure it. A frequency counter would be nice, especially for a commercial enterprise.
After you have done that, tell us what pin on the '1738 really sees 27 MHz when playing a Red Book disc.
Cheers!
Jocko
And being sincere here..........
Buy a 'scope. Stop guessing what goes on what pin and measure it. A frequency counter would be nice, especially for a commercial enterprise.
After you have done that, tell us what pin on the '1738 really sees 27 MHz when playing a Red Book disc.
Cheers!
Jocko
Re: Since you asked for assistance.......
Janneman, It's just a clock! At least I may hope so!
Shame on you Jocko! You are presuming KBK designed his revolutionary clock without a scope in The Wilds Of Canada........?Jocko Homo said:
Janneman, It's just a clock! At least I may hope so!
€£$O: Is this your normal instruction for the Kwak Clock? 😀
KBK: You are welcome to use the generic instruction found on our website, it will work - also for your model.
http://www.lcaudio.com/index.php?page=41
Mind the clock signal amplitude, many SACD players use 3.3V for digital supply, so don't shoot in a 5 V clock signal. You will destroy something !!!
About the frequency conversion done in almost every SACD player, you are absolutely right. First they take a 27.0000 MHz clock, then feed it into a PLL circuit to generate for example 24.576 MHz for a 192 kHz sampled output SACD signal. You cannot avoid adding huge amounts of jitter in the PLL circuit. Better change also the 33.8688 MHz clock, which goes directly into the DAC without any PLL, but only when playing good ol' CD's.
😉
janneman said:
Makes sense to me.
~~~~~~
Thank you Lars. that was my suspicion as to the different frequencies.
So..I've paid $300US+tax....to install a clock that will be degraded by a PLL circuit. I own a total of about 20 SACD's. maybe 8-10 are worth listening to. The rest are uptight audiophile garbage, whcih most SACD's are. A disgusting state of affairs.
I own hundreds of standard CD's..so that is the clock I should have been changing. Since it goes in unaltered...that's the place I'l put my own clock. Likely the CD's will sound better than the SACD's. Such is life.
Lars Clausen said:
Haha, how are you doing £AR$?
No the 3.3 vs. 5.0 V issue is not valid for my clock as the comparator typically has a logic high output of 3.5V. This will not harm a 3.3V logic chip, as these mostly are 5V tolerant at the inputs. So your well meant advice is not valid for my clock. Anyway in a Philips SACD1000 this was the case and it did not work with a attenuated clock signal.......😎 I agree with replacing all clocks being beneficially.😎
Ironically the instruction I invented myself for the total ignorant is in Guido 's PDF file!:
"Note If you cannot locate in and output from the oscillator, you may use this method*. Solder 2 resistors (each 10k to1M) instead of both capacitors. Now switch on the power and measure the DC voltages on both input and output of the oscillator. The pin that reads about 3,3V or 5V is the output, the pin close to 0V is the input. *Courtesy of Elso Kwak."
🙄
That's right, bub..........
You paid $300 for something that is going to go through a PLL/divider kludge. I am surprised that the inventor of a revolutionary device would not have known this.
Sorry for all the abuse, but yes, you opened yourself up to it with the way you started the thread. Since you have apologised twice, no need to rub it in any further.
Unless you give us another chance. Be thankful that Phred has retired from here, and so you are spared his standard RTFM lecture.
Jocko
You paid $300 for something that is going to go through a PLL/divider kludge. I am surprised that the inventor of a revolutionary device would not have known this.
Sorry for all the abuse, but yes, you opened yourself up to it with the way you started the thread. Since you have apologised twice, no need to rub it in any further.
Unless you give us another chance. Be thankful that Phred has retired from here, and so you are spared his standard RTFM lecture.
Jocko
I do recall it being there..now that I think about it. I've downloaded and looked at the spec and tech books for just about every quality DAC issued in the past 5-10 years. And I seem to have forgotten that the divider circuit was/is nessessary for the design that these combo SA/CD players use. bad design. bad, bad, bad. Ihad a big credit and just ordered 'some stuff'. perhaps I should return it, instead of using it. I might be able to find a fairly lossless way to switch between two different clocks, but I doubt it.
As for apologizing, that's just my way of avioding flame wars. That's what smart people do.
As for apologizing, that's just my way of avioding flame wars. That's what smart people do.
How about a cheap and simple way of measuring the jitter???
Or at least a relative representation of the jitter from the Superclock, after the PLL circuit and ... not least from the all new revolutionary never-seen-before hyper clock from KBK??
Look here: http://www.oliveaudio.com/index.php?page=4
😉
Or at least a relative representation of the jitter from the Superclock, after the PLL circuit and ... not least from the all new revolutionary never-seen-before hyper clock from KBK??
Look here: http://www.oliveaudio.com/index.php?page=4
😉
KBK said:
Slightly OT, but I find it curious that an audio SACD/CD player uses a 27 Mhz clock.
Is that Shanling also a DVD-V player?
On most Sony dedicated CD/SACD players the clock is 11.2896 Mhz.
Let's measure some jitter!
I can not measure jitter directly, but I can measure phase noise. Similar setup..........a bit more complex...........
I use a "digital" phase detector, i.e., one that uses 74 series logic to give me a set of pulses that I can use to control a VCXO (of known quality). The output of the UUT and the reference VCXO go through a DBM to get the beat note of the two, which should be the phase (noise) difference.
Sure, you could just take the PLL output, LPF it.....amplify it, etc. I use the complicated way, so that I have a way of calibrating it. Plus, some of us enjoy making theings complex.
Anyway..............after all of that.........I do not get a jitter measurement in terms of time domain, but I can see the spectral distribution, which is probably more important. The circuit in the link that Lars provided will do about the same.
Jocko
I can not measure jitter directly, but I can measure phase noise. Similar setup..........a bit more complex...........
I use a "digital" phase detector, i.e., one that uses 74 series logic to give me a set of pulses that I can use to control a VCXO (of known quality). The output of the UUT and the reference VCXO go through a DBM to get the beat note of the two, which should be the phase (noise) difference.
Sure, you could just take the PLL output, LPF it.....amplify it, etc. I use the complicated way, so that I have a way of calibrating it. Plus, some of us enjoy making theings complex.
Anyway..............after all of that.........I do not get a jitter measurement in terms of time domain, but I can see the spectral distribution, which is probably more important. The circuit in the link that Lars provided will do about the same.
Jocko
yep. the guts of the Shanling are a DVD driver board system. I was a bit taken back when I saw that in there. All that extra crap for nothing. I think I remember making it go a bit strange when I stuck a DVD in it. 😀
With a few exceptions, the same would be the case in any SACD player. That's why we always recommend a CD player to play CD's. The PLL circuit in almost every SACD player will always be the reason it is inferior to a CD player, contradictionary to what the colorful adds from the SACD companies want you to think.
But think back a few years. Then it was DVD players: A DVD player can play CD's with MUCH higher definition than a CD Player! A DVD player, the only player you need.
Was it true???? 😎
My suggestion is: Get a good CD player instead!
But think back a few years. Then it was DVD players: A DVD player can play CD's with MUCH higher definition than a CD Player! A DVD player, the only player you need.
Was it true???? 😎
My suggestion is: Get a good CD player instead!
CD Player!
Dear Lars,
Thanks for telling my story!
I'm not so good in words and this is what I always tell my friends and people I know, and they always say, but the adds says.............
I'll copy this post of you and send it to all the guys and ladies that still think that I'm not telling the truth (if you don't mind ).
Best regards,
Audiofanatic 😉
Lars Clausen said:
Dear Lars,
Thanks for telling my story!
I'm not so good in words and this is what I always tell my friends and people I know, and they always say, but the adds says.............
I'll copy this post of you and send it to all the guys and ladies that still think that I'm not telling the truth (if you don't mind ).
Best regards,
Audiofanatic 😉
Audiofanatic: Please .. Be my guest, and send it to the advertising dept. of S**Y as well .. 😀
Just to let them know that we (the people) are not so dim as to believe anything they write in their ads ..
Just to let them know that we (the people) are not so dim as to believe anything they write in their ads ..
It is not just their ads................
The service manual for the 707ES is wrong when it comes to tweaking those 4 pots for the MSB trim. Interesting story about that.........too bad we have space limitations.
Anyway, it isn't us who are the dim ones. They write it.........they believe. We just happen to know better.
Jocko
The service manual for the 707ES is wrong when it comes to tweaking those 4 pots for the MSB trim. Interesting story about that.........too bad we have space limitations.
Anyway, it isn't us who are the dim ones. They write it.........they believe. We just happen to know better.
Jocko
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