I understand what you are saying, and it is indeed a very basic point.
I think that when you are of the opinion that people are always responsible for their behaviour, that it is all a free choice, then yes, no need to protect them from themselves.
But there's a lot of evidence that for some things it really isn't a free choice at all. If that is the case, do you not then have the obligation to protect them from that what they cannot really help?
In the extreme, would you give a baby a razor blade to play with, just because the baby asks for it? You wouldn't say, hey, it's the baby's choice.
So we understand the principle, the question is where do you draw the line. I am of the opinion that addictions are on the 'baby side' of the line.
Another example: all those 1000's of young people that died from Oxycodon addiction, currently in the news. Would you say, hey, those kids chose to take the stuff, so we won't hold anybody responsible?
Jan
I think that when you are of the opinion that people are always responsible for their behaviour, that it is all a free choice, then yes, no need to protect them from themselves.
But there's a lot of evidence that for some things it really isn't a free choice at all. If that is the case, do you not then have the obligation to protect them from that what they cannot really help?
In the extreme, would you give a baby a razor blade to play with, just because the baby asks for it? You wouldn't say, hey, it's the baby's choice.
So we understand the principle, the question is where do you draw the line. I am of the opinion that addictions are on the 'baby side' of the line.
Another example: all those 1000's of young people that died from Oxycodon addiction, currently in the news. Would you say, hey, those kids chose to take the stuff, so we won't hold anybody responsible?
Jan
Excellent. Welcome to smkeless life‼
Some nearer happen to father. He catch a pulmonary iangina. The doctor said him that "or you forgot smoking, or smoking forgot you". It was so big the scahe he got that immediatelly stop smoking. Now he is alive and near 90.
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So the question is...who is a victim and who is not. Hence the age of consent legislation. For those on the latter side of the line, I would suggest you have been recognized eligible to make your own decisions.
A banned flavouring which is linked to cancer has been found in dangerous levels in e-cigarettes. The chemical called pulegone is contained in menthol and mint flavoured vapes.
Dangerous levels of ‘cancer-causing’ chemical in menthol e-cigarettes, docs warn – The Sun
That reminds me of the old advert: "Consulate Cigarettes - Cool as a mountain stream"
MAD magazine spoofed it as: "Convalescent Cigarettes - Cool as the nurse's hand on your brow"
Dangerous levels of ‘cancer-causing’ chemical in menthol e-cigarettes, docs warn – The Sun
That reminds me of the old advert: "Consulate Cigarettes - Cool as a mountain stream"
MAD magazine spoofed it as: "Convalescent Cigarettes - Cool as the nurse's hand on your brow"
Attachments
I take it you've never seen tobacco advertisements from yesteryear. This crap was basically advertised as something that will enhance your health up until the 1960's. Even after that lawyers defending the tobacco industry have made completely idiotic statements about the lack of health hazards and tried to paint the blame on individual smokers rather than the industry itself.
... which say nothing at all about your ability, if any, to do so in the context of this discussion.
Look, cigarette manus develeop very sophisticated marketing strategies to get people to smoke and keep them smoking, against all facts and figures that it kills or makes them very ill. They are very successful exactly because they know how to influence people on a basic level where they cannot resist, where they have no free will in a practical sense.
Knowing that and saying, well, it's their coice, is very cruel and irresponsible.
Jan
I’ve lost friends and family to smoking related disease, one part of me says it’s their own stupidity the other recognizes they were preyed upon.
What really gets me are the ones that had hope, were told to quit or die and chose to continue smoking........those get the nod towards stupidity.
Mamma always said ‘you just can’t fix stupid’
What really gets me are the ones that had hope, were told to quit or die and chose to continue smoking........those get the nod towards stupidity.
Mamma always said ‘you just can’t fix stupid’
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I would word it this way Osvaldo - they are searching for ways to make profits regardless of whether they destroy people's lives.
It is claimed in a recent Tobacco Atlas Report that the world's biggest tobacco companies make a profit equivalent to 9,730 US dollars for the death of each smoker.
Report: Big tobacco is targeting the world's most vulnerable to increase profits
Deaths – Tobacco Atlas
I like this thread hmmm... I'm not sure I have anything of great importance to add to the posts
But, in less than a week I turn 41, and I planned to stop smoking before I'm over 40.
So I've got a vaper on standby, some awful spray, or cold Turkey.
I cant stand the spray, it makes gum seem bearable. A vape always makes me cough far more than smoking, so I can reduce easily (I'd hope). Maybe just going cold Turkey is the way to go (not sure i have as strong will as those who quit "just like that")
I'll just have to see.
If I manage to stop smoking, then maybe I'll have something useful to say.
But, in less than a week I turn 41, and I planned to stop smoking before I'm over 40.
So I've got a vaper on standby, some awful spray, or cold Turkey.
I cant stand the spray, it makes gum seem bearable. A vape always makes me cough far more than smoking, so I can reduce easily (I'd hope). Maybe just going cold Turkey is the way to go (not sure i have as strong will as those who quit "just like that")
I'll just have to see.
If I manage to stop smoking, then maybe I'll have something useful to say.
As soon as you can, the better for you and family/friends. Start enjoying tastes, air, and many other advantages like less salt to the meats.
I would encourage you to stop smoking in any format. Think in your sons and parents. They will be happy to have you without odor to smoke and healthy.
Why not to start now, discarding the last box of cigarettes?
Bear in mind that vaping does nothing to ween you off nicotine, it merely can help to break the habit of lighting up in some situations.
But since one still inhales and generally treats the vaper exactly like a cigarette I don't really see how it helps to stop the habit of smoking in general. It is only a solution if you don't want to stop but believe that vaping is better for your health...for which there is no proof beyond extrapolation.
If you really want to stop smoking I think gum or patches would be more help than vaping.
But since one still inhales and generally treats the vaper exactly like a cigarette I don't really see how it helps to stop the habit of smoking in general. It is only a solution if you don't want to stop but believe that vaping is better for your health...for which there is no proof beyond extrapolation.
If you really want to stop smoking I think gum or patches would be more help than vaping.
I said earlier that I stopped smoking abruptly, but that was actually preceded by the gradual elimination of places in which I could smoke.
I stopped smoking:
- in the house when my first son was born.
- at work when the majority of my fellow workmates voted for a smoke-free environment.
- in the pub when the Scottish Government banned smoking in public spaces.
- in my man shed when everything in it ended up smelling like an overflowing ash tray.
So, it was a gradual process followed by an abrupt halt and it's surprising what a short time it takes to regret ever having started smoking in the first place.
Oh, and the fact that my wallet started to became fuller greatly reinforced my decision to stay off the deadly weed!
P.S. Apologies to all you smokers out there. There is no one more holier-than-thou than an ex-smoker!
Apart from, you know, pretty well every study done on them (knowing there's limitations is part of study interpretation). Here's one:
Health impact of E-cigarettes: a prospective 3.5-year study of regular daily users who have never smoked
The long and short is they're safer, vastly so, but still a bad habit. 6 dead from black market oil-cannabis carts vs. 480k from cigarettes....
The primary carrier for Ecigs is a mix of propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin, both GRAS compounds. Glycerin is in a TON of things, and propylene glycol is artificial smoke.
Vapor is not smoke, it operates at a much lower temperature meaning that upon inhalation reactivity will tend to be lower, the components are both less toxic and, for the trace components in most fluids which are also present in combusted tobacco, are vastly less concentrated than in cigarette smoke.
It's not a good habit but as bad habits go it's vastly milder than inhaling combusted material. You can perform an easy experiment as a nonsmoker (though you'll have to smoke). Try smoking a few cigarettes one evening and note your effects the following day, then a week or so later do the same with ecigs. Ecigs will not affect your lung function, sense of smell and taste, or leave gunk in your sinuses and lungs to cough up the way burning tobacco does. Sample size of 1 but the results are consistent for all transitioning people.
It's easy to see what sticks in place more, using your nose. Cigarette smoke stinks up things for years and leaves a visual and tangible residue. Ecigs, 2 min after someone vapes the vapor is gone and you'd have no way to tell.
Again not advocating for what is a bad habit, but it's a minor bad habit compared to one of the very worst.
A simple experiment for a smoker is to take a deep draw from a cigarette without inhaling the smoke into the lungs. Then exhale the smoke through a doubled up paper tissue.
Note the dark brown patch that appears on the tissue representing the tar content in the puff of cigarette smoke.
Now repeat the experiment, but inhale the smoke deeply into the lungs before exhaling through the paper tissue. This time the tissue will remain practically clean.
Where has all the tar gone?
And that's just one puff!
Indeed.
E-cigs give me the same splitting headaches other chemical smells do like air fresheners, some laundry detergent, spray paint or thinners.
Because of that disgusting stench they produce I've never tried one.
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