All,
Looking after a speaker system of decent quality for a modest apartment (about 5 x 7 meters), but accepted by the partner. So, a not-too-ugly form and modest dimensions. My own requirements are in the direction of little distortion and good imaging, moderate listening levels.
I'd like to build it myself, having enough experience as a furniture maker, I probably can manage to make cabinets, but it would be my first speaker build in about 50 years. The last one was a Wharfedale kit with the drivers from the Dovedale 3 model, so about the early 1970s. I read that a first attempt would better be to take a proven design -- I have come across a few that are tempting, but I'm still unsure about what to select. Unfortunatey, one cannot go out for listening tests in the DIY area.
I think about Troels Gravesen's Discovery-12W with a (too) expensive tweeter or xrk971's FAST/WAW monitor with the 10F/8424 and the RS225-8 drivers. I have also been given (really!) a set of four Decca Kelly Ribbons (DK130) which I could combine with a Mark Audio Alpair 12W (as advised here), but then the cabinets' recommended size quickly becomes an issue. Ideally, I should have not more that 50-60 cm centimeters of height. As it is a first attempt , I am thinking about a budget of +/- 400/500 euro for the drivers, so there's not too much lost.
Other ideas are welcome! My music preferences are more towards jazz combos, vocal music and a lot of classical/preclassical music. In my man attic, I'm using Quad ESL57 speakers, just to make that clear.
As there is a Bang& Olufsen showroom just around the corner, my spouse has remarked the Beolab-8 speaker and she likes its appearance a lot, though not the price tag. So I could attempt something similar to this (design can be better, I could 3D print look-alike aluminium or bronze parts):
But adding this kind of cosmetics may be detrimental to the sound. A speaker grille or front isn't always for the best, so it seems. OTOH, there are grandchildren (and cats and dogs) which may be tempted by those cones that bounce when you press them, so some covering could be beneficial. What are the ideas about wooden strips as a grille?
Your comments are welcome !
Cheers,
Jacques
Looking after a speaker system of decent quality for a modest apartment (about 5 x 7 meters), but accepted by the partner. So, a not-too-ugly form and modest dimensions. My own requirements are in the direction of little distortion and good imaging, moderate listening levels.
I'd like to build it myself, having enough experience as a furniture maker, I probably can manage to make cabinets, but it would be my first speaker build in about 50 years. The last one was a Wharfedale kit with the drivers from the Dovedale 3 model, so about the early 1970s. I read that a first attempt would better be to take a proven design -- I have come across a few that are tempting, but I'm still unsure about what to select. Unfortunatey, one cannot go out for listening tests in the DIY area.
I think about Troels Gravesen's Discovery-12W with a (too) expensive tweeter or xrk971's FAST/WAW monitor with the 10F/8424 and the RS225-8 drivers. I have also been given (really!) a set of four Decca Kelly Ribbons (DK130) which I could combine with a Mark Audio Alpair 12W (as advised here), but then the cabinets' recommended size quickly becomes an issue. Ideally, I should have not more that 50-60 cm centimeters of height. As it is a first attempt , I am thinking about a budget of +/- 400/500 euro for the drivers, so there's not too much lost.
Other ideas are welcome! My music preferences are more towards jazz combos, vocal music and a lot of classical/preclassical music. In my man attic, I'm using Quad ESL57 speakers, just to make that clear.
As there is a Bang& Olufsen showroom just around the corner, my spouse has remarked the Beolab-8 speaker and she likes its appearance a lot, though not the price tag. So I could attempt something similar to this (design can be better, I could 3D print look-alike aluminium or bronze parts):
But adding this kind of cosmetics may be detrimental to the sound. A speaker grille or front isn't always for the best, so it seems. OTOH, there are grandchildren (and cats and dogs) which may be tempted by those cones that bounce when you press them, so some covering could be beneficial. What are the ideas about wooden strips as a grille?
Your comments are welcome !
Cheers,
Jacques
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I think the logic should be the opposite: show the list to your beloved one of the broad range of speakers you like - it can be DIY or some popular model of the well known manufacturer and let her choose. Or just go to hi-fi store and let her comment on some of them. Then buy or make the one which is the same or LOOKS like the ones she chose. Done.
Then make the system to play with one push of the button or automatically when TV is on or when she pressed "play" button of her phone. Mission: success.
Then make the system to play with one push of the button or automatically when TV is on or when she pressed "play" button of her phone. Mission: success.
As long as you keep the open area and depth reasonable, I doubt you'll have trouble. Of course from an audiophile standpoint there are those that say no grille is the only proper grille, but practical people often have to make cosmetic and protective concessions.
Your rib version looks more closed than the B&O's and the depth looks greater also. Here's a picture of them with the contrast and brightness jacked up so more of the details can be seen. There's another element behind the wooden ones, which you likely won't have.
wood grilles causes diffraction issues, i would use a different kind of grille for at least the tweeter and mid frequencies. Fofr the bass it does't matter as long as there is enough open space. But a tweeter needs as little obstruction as possible as the wavelengths are very short, so even speaker cloth has an influence on the highest frequencies (but not dramaticly, or that you can't take in account). Wooden slats will mess up the tweeter sound severly i think.
Use maybe a tweeter in a waveguide made from wood (you will need cnc or a lot of woodworking skills for that) or if you paint it, in whatever is the easiest (as long as its rigid enough) and only cover the woofer with slats. It won't be perfect, but it will be a lot better for sound and your spouse won't see an ugly (for them) tweerer front, only the dome and the waveguide. Someone made some good cad drawings for waveguides with dome tweeters, of which some are fairly cheap and very good (the SB26ADC for instance).
For the rest, the form of the cabinet can have an influence on the sound, but rounded is often better than square, just don't make it a perfect round speaker to avoid resonances internally. Finishing you can do as you wish,, paint it, oil it or wrap it in veneer. I like oiled wood the most and hate that glossy look, especially in white, but that does not have any influence on sound i think and taste is personal and subjective by definition.
And you don't necesairly need to go low with the speaker that looks like a speaker, a downfiring subwoofer can be hidden under a what we call a pouf (an ottoman in english i think), or can be a part of it. It can also be a sidetable, or hidden in a cupboard. As long as you cross it below 100Hz and time/phase aling it (probally best with dsp) it can look as a lot. And that makes that the top can be relative small.
And what some also do, it make a tv furniture with speakers build in where the speaker is hidden Something like this (but the speakers further from the sidewalls). You can still hide the speaker then with a speakercloth with design on it like you (or your wife) likes.
![Chins-TV-Unit-Display[1].jpg](https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/chins-tv-unit-display-1-jpg.1407548/ "Chins-TV-Unit-Display[1].jpg")
(picture from internet)
I did help design a speaker like that, but a big 5 way and made of cast fake marble (a marble-polymere), but that was very expensive to do, and in a big fancy villa that costed millions. But you can do something similar in wood on a smaller scale also.
Use maybe a tweeter in a waveguide made from wood (you will need cnc or a lot of woodworking skills for that) or if you paint it, in whatever is the easiest (as long as its rigid enough) and only cover the woofer with slats. It won't be perfect, but it will be a lot better for sound and your spouse won't see an ugly (for them) tweerer front, only the dome and the waveguide. Someone made some good cad drawings for waveguides with dome tweeters, of which some are fairly cheap and very good (the SB26ADC for instance).
For the rest, the form of the cabinet can have an influence on the sound, but rounded is often better than square, just don't make it a perfect round speaker to avoid resonances internally. Finishing you can do as you wish,, paint it, oil it or wrap it in veneer. I like oiled wood the most and hate that glossy look, especially in white, but that does not have any influence on sound i think and taste is personal and subjective by definition.
And you don't necesairly need to go low with the speaker that looks like a speaker, a downfiring subwoofer can be hidden under a what we call a pouf (an ottoman in english i think), or can be a part of it. It can also be a sidetable, or hidden in a cupboard. As long as you cross it below 100Hz and time/phase aling it (probally best with dsp) it can look as a lot. And that makes that the top can be relative small.
And what some also do, it make a tv furniture with speakers build in where the speaker is hidden Something like this (but the speakers further from the sidewalls). You can still hide the speaker then with a speakercloth with design on it like you (or your wife) likes.
(picture from internet)
I did help design a speaker like that, but a big 5 way and made of cast fake marble (a marble-polymere), but that was very expensive to do, and in a big fancy villa that costed millions. But you can do something similar in wood on a smaller scale also.
My drawing was only a quick preliminary one, to give the idea. The model my partner finds “not too bad” is this one. Listening to it in the shop wasn’t too impressive, TBH.
I can mimick that (main body in wood rather than aluminium), but what do we put inside? The examples I’ve researched all have a larger volume. So, I’ll have to upscale it as there’s probably not an interesting combo to put inside this less than 6 liter cylinder. I would make the horizontal section rather convex-triangular or pentagonal instead of circular. Leaving the front open for the tweeter.
It’s of course interesting to start from a proven design, I’m not knowledgeable enough (yet) to design the crossover for a 2-way and measure the behaviour. With only Unix-like machines in the house, that’s not going to be straightforward…
Thank you all for your advice so far.
I can mimick that (main body in wood rather than aluminium), but what do we put inside? The examples I’ve researched all have a larger volume. So, I’ll have to upscale it as there’s probably not an interesting combo to put inside this less than 6 liter cylinder. I would make the horizontal section rather convex-triangular or pentagonal instead of circular. Leaving the front open for the tweeter.
It’s of course interesting to start from a proven design, I’m not knowledgeable enough (yet) to design the crossover for a 2-way and measure the behaviour. With only Unix-like machines in the house, that’s not going to be straightforward…
Thank you all for your advice so far.
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I installed some JBL 4722 speakers in my living room while my wife was gone, this was not appreciated but were in the room for 2 years: Now any speakers I bring in are complemented as "at least they are not as big and ugly as those Jbl's"
If a more conventional or traditional-looking speaker is acceptable to you and your spouse, this one is within your budget. If you are adept at furniture or cabinet building, this speaker would be easily within your capability. It is 107 cm tall, however.
Link - 3 way Terra Incognita
I have some documentation at the end of the thread to summarize the design and build process.
Here is a semi-active speaker which has excellent performance for the price. The driver cost is about $270 per side, but there is also some electronics required, so the net cost will be closer to $550 per side.
Link - LCCAM-10.3
I made a comprehensive documentation package for this one: Documentation - LCCAM
It is 65 cm tall, so it is closer to your height requirement. I finished mine in a simple paint job, but this speaker could easily be given a fine gloss paint or a veneer.
Either of these speakers could be fitted with a grill. However, I have found that designing and building an attractive grill that has a low acoustic signature is very challenging.
Link - 3 way Terra Incognita
I have some documentation at the end of the thread to summarize the design and build process.
Here is a semi-active speaker which has excellent performance for the price. The driver cost is about $270 per side, but there is also some electronics required, so the net cost will be closer to $550 per side.
Link - LCCAM-10.3
I made a comprehensive documentation package for this one: Documentation - LCCAM
It is 65 cm tall, so it is closer to your height requirement. I finished mine in a simple paint job, but this speaker could easily be given a fine gloss paint or a veneer.
Either of these speakers could be fitted with a grill. However, I have found that designing and building an attractive grill that has a low acoustic signature is very challenging.
These are Jim Rogers "JR149", small British speakers from the 70s - ad taken from Internet. Perhaps too small, but I would think WAF would be high.
They were, IIRC, largely made from aluminium; look like they used a 4" mid and small tweeter. I heard them at Encel Stereo in Melbourne many years ago, and thought they sounded nice but the sound wasn't as big as several cheaper designs. Maybe the cabinet could be adapted for a modern design with similar sized drivers?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...beautiful-speakers-in-the-world.17178/page-18
Geoff
I do. I'm working on something a little smaller that should deliver most of that but with a single 15 per speaker and only 20" wide.
His:
Hers:
The struggle is real
Hers:
The struggle is real
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Yea, I down sized from double 15 (eminence 15lf) actively crossed 24db LR @ 750hz - 1khz (depending on volume levels) to the horn above (the jbl 2384 with a jbl 2435h beryllium diaphragm).
Now using what I have in my avatar (12" 2-ways with 2206 and pth 1010hf with 2431h compression driver.)...
Better highs, better voice, some punch but not as much................
If anyone reading this lives near Iowa (Iowa city/Cedar Rapids specifically), I'll sell the 2384 horn for a good price.
I don't think I could ship it without damage............
My wife would tolerate stereo 4722's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now using what I have in my avatar (12" 2-ways with 2206 and pth 1010hf with 2431h compression driver.)...
Better highs, better voice, some punch but not as much................
If anyone reading this lives near Iowa (Iowa city/Cedar Rapids specifically), I'll sell the 2384 horn for a good price.
I don't think I could ship it without damage............
My wife would tolerate stereo 4722's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Greets!
Hmm, the Beolab 8 employs three drivers: a 0.6-inch tweeter, a 3.0-inch midrange driver, and a 5.2-inch woofer, so for modest SPL, decent automotive systems will suffice and use DSP to fine tune for HIFI.
The cabs will need to be fairly porous due to the driver's high Qt, so may need a dedicated subwoofer if you need true bass as opposed to the typical mid bass 'bump' around 80 Hz, then gone by 40 Hz typical of '50s, early '60s (DIY) systems.
As for the fancy grill, such systems tend to be quite 'bright' due to the heavy vehicle damping, so a grill plus slats will tone them down some.
It is a neat design, something along those lines make sense. pretty much a 2 way, time aligned or appear time aligned is the initial fascination.
There is plenty of affordable titanium or aluminum drivers. Which would accomplish good detail.
Same old 2 way with likely slightly bigger woofer. pushing towards a normal .707 not .630 make it small box nonsense.
Final finish can just be brass rods. Old trick from the pioneers for high end looking stuff. Just rods with a bezel to hold them.
Utterly over the rear port thing. front port
There is no prefab design for the wife appeal thing. Up to you to be creative.
Same old same old, woofer /tweeter. Just new drivers with neos make the magnet smaller so tighter mounting center to center is possible.
Sticking to a more traditional box thing, easy life. Just find whatever fancy wood grains / stains she likes for the wood laminate
I happen to have received a foursome of these Decca Kelly ribbon tweeters (15 ohm)!
Not sure if I have to endeavour into accepting my fair lady a reasonable convenient enclosure (a really mediaeval terminology🤔)
Now her hearing is far from ideal, less than mine by accident, but she likes the sound of the Quad ESL 57s the most… She only doesn’t like those giant black rectangles in the living room. I can only say that the laws of physics are what they are. She’s ready for some concessions, so let’s maybe try a reasonable not-too-small woofer-with-tweeter. That’s for the seaside apartment. There’s still also a speaker system to be convened for the living room at our home. The Quad ESLs were chased to my attic after refurbishing the house. Maybe time to reclaim a bit of territory?
Not that any help from forum members is likely to convince her 😉
Not sure if I have to endeavour into accepting my fair lady a reasonable convenient enclosure (a really mediaeval terminology🤔)
Now her hearing is far from ideal, less than mine by accident, but she likes the sound of the Quad ESL 57s the most… She only doesn’t like those giant black rectangles in the living room. I can only say that the laws of physics are what they are. She’s ready for some concessions, so let’s maybe try a reasonable not-too-small woofer-with-tweeter. That’s for the seaside apartment. There’s still also a speaker system to be convened for the living room at our home. The Quad ESLs were chased to my attic after refurbishing the house. Maybe time to reclaim a bit of territory?
Not that any help from forum members is likely to convince her 😉
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Well, I’m fully aware that forum members cannot really help with heavy arguments in this discussion !
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Just to shatter stereotypes (no pun intended!), my wife's Klipschorns reside in two of our living room corners!
Dan
Dan
Here's help; tell her you're banking on the "scotoma" effect, where objects that remain for some time in ones visual field eventually drop out of awareness. If concern is any measure, you literally dont see it / them anymore. Unless, of course, obsession with it wont let it go into obscurity - like a dog on a rag.
Our current Maggie 1.7 have the "off white" socks and when not being listened to I push them against the wall.
The easiest answer is any small speaker you like and a couple of small subs. Sounds great, real easy to fit in your decor, can be affordable (or not).