jfetter's fake has tpachip with good looking lettering and dimple dot, no laser dot, just the information on tpachip is too low, so total laserprint seems centered, not tpa3118 line.
Saying these fakes are good (Sanwu uses them too) doesn't mean the laser dot fakes are good. Again like with "Sanyo's" you can get different fakes.
Saying these fakes are good (Sanwu uses them too) doesn't mean the laser dot fakes are good. Again like with "Sanyo's" you can get different fakes.
I don't care about lettering and dimple dot as long as it sounds better than my stacks of Marantz, Dynaco, Pioneer, Sansui and NADs.
TI probably knows everything about the source of the fakes. Maybe next year working for them on next big audio part. 😱
ok back to the hybrid 3116 layout.
-bruce
fakes, fakes, everywhere a fake!
+1, JFetter. I totally agree. If a chip sounds good, and hasn't blown up who the heck cares about dimple dots and if the laser etching is off/non-existant?
You guys are so concerned about fakes. Just relax and enjoy your music.
Does anybody really think Texas Instruments and other big companies actually craft all their parts in the USA? And are we that biased to think everything made here is of such superior quality to goods made elsewhere? That's sort of Ugly American, isn't it?
To open a big can o'worms...........he, he..........I don't think anything from General Motors compares to a Buggati.
M.
+1, JFetter. I totally agree. If a chip sounds good, and hasn't blown up who the heck cares about dimple dots and if the laser etching is off/non-existant?
You guys are so concerned about fakes. Just relax and enjoy your music.
Does anybody really think Texas Instruments and other big companies actually craft all their parts in the USA? And are we that biased to think everything made here is of such superior quality to goods made elsewhere? That's sort of Ugly American, isn't it?
To open a big can o'worms...........he, he..........I don't think anything from General Motors compares to a Buggati.
M.
Funny you mentioned an exclusive European car in respons to not caring about buying fakes. An old TVseries policeman used to say: Let's be carefull out there. 😀
If you don't care, fine. I care about. What i don't care about is buying $3 amp pcbs to spend $40 in parts to get something "decent".
The whole story in most of the threads here is buying cheap stuff and complaining about missing performance - esspecially "bass". Then rolling caps, buying expensive stuff like overengineered/overpriced/overhyped linear regulators or discrete opamps to get things "right". Other complain about distortion but put a tube buffer in front.
So while people are into that, i'm more into the internals and/or measuring thing, people complain about to see/show/bust this - if anything can be seen. I.e. to me, lacking bass is not a question of capacitor brand or type.
As said - i am. If i have the chance to get my hands on a 5000x magnifier, why not using it to see if we're all wrong/right.
No, best products come from Germany. 😉
"Seem".. must not relate to "do".
Many things/impressions are biased by personal expectations. Expensive caps mostly "sound better" because they must.. they were expensive. 🙂
Of course, if the sound a particual amplifier satisfies you, go for it. But it's just hard to compare "impressions", everyone listens differently. "Test" conditions can/will get you a start point for own experiments and are comparable and repeatable (if documented properly) for everyone.
That's my point of view. 🙂
If the conversation about > "fakes" or not < isn't suitable for this thread, no problem - i will open a new one or keep the information for those who wanna know.
So, back to topic - it's all about golden ears. 😀
Many things/impressions are biased by personal expectations. Expensive caps mostly "sound better" because they must.. they were expensive. 🙂
Of course, if the sound a particual amplifier satisfies you, go for it. But it's just hard to compare "impressions", everyone listens differently. "Test" conditions can/will get you a start point for own experiments and are comparable and repeatable (if documented properly) for everyone.
That's my point of view. 🙂
If the conversation about > "fakes" or not < isn't suitable for this thread, no problem - i will open a new one or keep the information for those who wanna know.
So, back to topic - it's all about golden ears. 😀
Some good reading material on why perception is often not based on reality:
Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely
Behavioral economics has pretty much experimentally confirmed why expensive amplifiers will always "sound" better than low cost ones regardless of technical measurements... ;-)
Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely
Behavioral economics has pretty much experimentally confirmed why expensive amplifiers will always "sound" better than low cost ones regardless of technical measurements... ;-)
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Oh oh, Dan Ariely wrote about counterfeit goods too 😀
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/16/the-moral-costs-of-counterfeiting/comment-page-3/?_r=0
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/16/the-moral-costs-of-counterfeiting/comment-page-3/?_r=0
I for one am very interested to hear whether the chips used in copies of sanwu boards are actually real or fakes, even thou they sound great for the price as I wore before. It's not about money put on these cheap amps, I just want to know what amp I'm listening. The reason for ordering these boards was to hear one implementation of TPA3118 in mono configuration. If I had to guess I would say the chip is actually remarked TPA3130 (or some other TI chip) as speculated in this thread before. I will stay tuned for the final verdict on these super cheap boards.
Now I'm confused! You are saying Sanwu does not use genuine TPA3118 chip? I was thinking about ordering boards straight from Sanwu through Aliexpress.
Price for these is much higher than for copies in Ebay. I'm not saying price is indication of good stuff, just that with that price one could maybe produce a board with genuine chip (caps are different story I guess 🙄).
Now I'm confused! You are saying Sanwu does not use genuine TPA3118 chip? I was thinking about ordering boards straight from Sanwu through Aliexpress.
Price for these is much higher than for copies in Ebay. I'm not saying price is indication of good stuff, just that with that price one could maybe produce a board with genuine chip (caps are different story I guess 🙄).
Basicly jfetter said his might be fake. His possibly fake chips have the entire laserprint centered on chip, seems like the chips Sanwu uses. This is not how print is placed on tpa3118 normally. The print does look good, no differences in sizes/spacing/etc I could see comparing to TI's, just placed lower vertically.
The fake tpa3118 discussed by me mostly doesn't have exact same typecast sizes/spacing/etc as TI uses AND doesn't have a recessed dot to mark pin 1 like TI uses, but uses a laser printed dot.
Both can be fake, just like a crossvented electrolytic marked Sanyo and a trivented electrolytic marked Sanyo both are fake. Btw, Sanwu uses both kind of fake Sanyo's. So different kind of fakes exist, probably different producers of fakes exist, they can be 5000 miles apart and one producing decent fakes doesn't say a thing about how the other is. They ain't Sanyo, they probably ain't TI.
The idea of remarked TI chip seems wasting money to me, you have a chip with value and create a fake valueless chip from that. Valueless because nobody nows what it is or what can be expected. Criminal in some countries too.
The fake tpa3118 discussed by me mostly doesn't have exact same typecast sizes/spacing/etc as TI uses AND doesn't have a recessed dot to mark pin 1 like TI uses, but uses a laser printed dot.
Both can be fake, just like a crossvented electrolytic marked Sanyo and a trivented electrolytic marked Sanyo both are fake. Btw, Sanwu uses both kind of fake Sanyo's. So different kind of fakes exist, probably different producers of fakes exist, they can be 5000 miles apart and one producing decent fakes doesn't say a thing about how the other is. They ain't Sanyo, they probably ain't TI.
The idea of remarked TI chip seems wasting money to me, you have a chip with value and create a fake valueless chip from that. Valueless because nobody nows what it is or what can be expected. Criminal in some countries too.
As if someone will care about that over there. Even eggs are faked ! I have seen them. You want to bake an egg and then it turns out to be made of plastic. Milk powder contaminated with melamine.... Even death penalty does not scare those that are busy with such activities.
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Some clarification: No laws broken, US or Mainland
If the item was advertised as Sanwu , and you purchased it from the mainland it will be genuine. A cert of origin is shown in pic.
If you buy directly from YJ a similar receipt is received.
If it was advertised as 'Generic Brand' then who knows. Its an evaluation piece and should never be sold or transferred without disclosure- much less be used in a final product.
If the generic 'blank' has a similar look, form factor and dimensions then still no law broken.
All of the generic brands may or may not have genuine TI dies. Even if markings and package out of spec, the wafer or chip-scale may have been legally transferred.
Assembly methods, overall quality of the generics is lower as can be seen from a visual inspection.
My generics meet all of the TPA specs I can measure. They could be seconds, over-runs or PolyPacks. don't know.
There are other possibilities but on the surface no obvious legal issue. You should get advice from someone more knowledgable than me.
I buy the blanks for hobby entertainment only.
-bruce
If the item was advertised as Sanwu , and you purchased it from the mainland it will be genuine. A cert of origin is shown in pic.
If you buy directly from YJ a similar receipt is received.
If it was advertised as 'Generic Brand' then who knows. Its an evaluation piece and should never be sold or transferred without disclosure- much less be used in a final product.
If the generic 'blank' has a similar look, form factor and dimensions then still no law broken.
All of the generic brands may or may not have genuine TI dies. Even if markings and package out of spec, the wafer or chip-scale may have been legally transferred.
Assembly methods, overall quality of the generics is lower as can be seen from a visual inspection.
My generics meet all of the TPA specs I can measure. They could be seconds, over-runs or PolyPacks. don't know.
There are other possibilities but on the surface no obvious legal issue. You should get advice from someone more knowledgable than me.
I buy the blanks for hobby entertainment only.
-bruce
Attachments
thanks doctormord,
that all is taking a lot of your time. is it still set up?
if so please show plots with 24vdc!
.
that all is taking a lot of your time. is it still set up?
if so please show plots with 24vdc!
.
Very close to EVM board. Too close for the +30% inductor difference I found I think, you replaced them too ?
(edit laserdot clone here one inductor 11 and 11.05uH and other 12 and 12.45uH, one board two inductors with two different frequencies, so closer than Sanwu I mentioned earlier)
(edit laserdot clone here one inductor 11 and 11.05uH and other 12 and 12.45uH, one board two inductors with two different frequencies, so closer than Sanwu I mentioned earlier)
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