I suggest you read some of the stickies. Not sure what you mean about famous frequency. Car audio drivers are not the cheapest. If they are it’s a reason for it. You get what you pay for. I suggest you try to read up on some common designs and forget about this idea you had. It will save you time and money. Btw; Pro/PA can sound good anywhere if it’s a good design. Better than anything IMO. But most people don’t have that kind of space or listening distance at home. What’s your room size? Can you fit PA? Then go for it. Best value no question. And yes good health to you. Don’t believe everything your read. Especially not magic numbers theory. Eventhough Fibonacci sequence and the golden ratio of phi is very interesting reading I don’t think it applies a lot to speaker theory.
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Thank you very much for suggestions.My idea or my concept for speaker sistem which i like to have is: Ful range speaker in saled box, and to produce frequency of 100 Hz-(6-8)khz, bas or subwoofer to cover up to 100Hz,saled box, and tweeter from 8-20khz.All 8 ohms.Tri amp power with active crossover. If i cant find FR than use mid and midhigh speakers with passive crossover,or car speaker but x2 for 8 ohm.Hence the idea for use of car speakers. My listening room is 16m2. I don't need a very loud sound but to feel a little bass. That is my idea,that's what I want.������ P.S. I was joking about the famous frequency, it's just an idea and according to my some listening tests, what I think should cover the human voice, means a speaker that would cover the whole range of the human voice and that's about it.
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Define 'good' since my experience with mobile audio drivers has been ~180 deg out of phase with all the posts I scanned before losing interest.
These Sound Pretty Good !
https://www.amazon.com/GRS-69AS-4-D...ords=grs&qid=1627780239&s=electronics&sr=1-25
https://www.amazon.com/GRS-69AS-4-D...ords=grs&qid=1627780239&s=electronics&sr=1-25
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Car speakers are more rugged, and more expensive than home speakers.
If you get decent ones in scrap...or have old ones from a discarded car, go right ahead.
Remember they are designed to use the body for resonance, so build a bigger cabinet.
Cabinet materials, baffles, liners....big topic.
If you are buying new for indoor use, stick to the indoor designs.
If you get decent ones in scrap...or have old ones from a discarded car, go right ahead.
Remember they are designed to use the body for resonance, so build a bigger cabinet.
Cabinet materials, baffles, liners....big topic.
If you are buying new for indoor use, stick to the indoor designs.
@OP: you can’t decide on crossover before choosing drivers. Also running a dedicated amp for a tweeter from 8kHz just doesn’t make any sense. If you plan to have active sub then cross as low as possible there maybe 80Hz (THX standard) to not mess up phase. Further have a passive crossover at 2,5kHz for the mid/high would give you alot more options in driver selection. Most 8 ohm 6,5” midbasses can cover 80Hz-2,5kHz at low levels in a small room.
Something like this:
Dayton Audio BR-1 6-1/2" 2-Way Bookshelf Monitor Speaker Kit Pair
You might find you don’t even need a sub.
Something like this:
Dayton Audio BR-1 6-1/2" 2-Way Bookshelf Monitor Speaker Kit Pair
You might find you don’t even need a sub.
I choise amp for tweeter because if tweeter is low sense then can volume up and because 24 db passive crossover is very complicated,. I'd like to tweeter do not coming human voice,Full range to cover human voice.If FR cover to 80Hz then bass covered and musk human voice and I lose clarity.If down Crossover point is about 100Hz,more bass go to subwoofer or other bass speaker,then human voice is clear.
wow this thread got quickly derailed with superstitious woo woo...
As far as aftermarket car door speakers you will typically find:
-They typically have higher Fs, Qts, caused by stiff suspensions. This is because there is the assumption that you will use a dedicated subwoofer to handle <80Hz and because doors are inherently leaky boxes. A stiff suspension makes it harder to exceed xmax or xmech in a leaky box when 200lb gorillas turn the volume up too loud, which would otherwise result in a premature death of the driver. Having Fs around the typical frequency that you'd cross to a sub also makes it easier to cross to the sub with relatively simple crossover filters, as most aftermarket car amps include.
-They are typically 4ohm. Sensitivity is a little higher, even considering the 4ohm impedance, due to the increased Fs. Perhaps 92-94dB/2.83v isn't uncommon for a 6.5" 4ohm car woofer where a hifi woofer would be 8ohms and 85-87dB/2.83v
-I haven't seen any evidence of car specific woofers being specifically designed for any higher vibration or the acoustic challenges of a car interior, compared to home hifi woofers. A large gap between the voicecoil and motor is probably more indicative of poor manufacturing tolerances, than being designed to deal with vehicle vibrations. I have used woofers with extremely soft suspensions (Qts<0.3) in a car application and never once did the voicecoil scrape the sides of the gap.
-They are often built with moisture resistance in mind, since car doors are a wet area and water can splash onto the back of the woofer, not to mention condensation.
The reason for 4ohms is because car headunits run from 12V DC, so if you design an amplifier that only has a 12V power supply then the most power you can get is 9watts into 8ohms. With 4ohm speakers you get 18Watts which is much more reasonable. OEM car speakers these days can even be 2 or 1ohm impedance to extract as much power as possible from a 12V system without resorting to DC-to-DC boost powersupplies for the amplifier (as per aftermarket car amps) which add cost.
The different impedance alone does not result in any other difference in performance of the driver. If you run lower impedance speakers on your home hifi amplifier you'll probably get a little more distortion from the amp at the same power output versus 8ohms, and in extreme cases can damage your amp. Any half decent amp should have overcurrent protection so should not be damaged.
Performance per $ is typically lower than budget home hifi drivers (e.g. Dayton Audio). When I was in to car audio I used to run all home hifi drivers in my car, with 6.5" 8ohm Fs=40Hz woofers in the doors and that sounded a heck of a lot better than any car audio gear I could afford. Those $40 woofers performed as well or better than the woofers in a $500/pr+ component set. Most <$150/pr car speakers are hot garbage.
There is a lot more marketing overhead built into the prices of car audio products compared to entry-mid level DIY home hifi products. There is also more $ spent on looks and installation accessories than outright sonic performance.
As far as aftermarket car door speakers you will typically find:
-They typically have higher Fs, Qts, caused by stiff suspensions. This is because there is the assumption that you will use a dedicated subwoofer to handle <80Hz and because doors are inherently leaky boxes. A stiff suspension makes it harder to exceed xmax or xmech in a leaky box when 200lb gorillas turn the volume up too loud, which would otherwise result in a premature death of the driver. Having Fs around the typical frequency that you'd cross to a sub also makes it easier to cross to the sub with relatively simple crossover filters, as most aftermarket car amps include.
-They are typically 4ohm. Sensitivity is a little higher, even considering the 4ohm impedance, due to the increased Fs. Perhaps 92-94dB/2.83v isn't uncommon for a 6.5" 4ohm car woofer where a hifi woofer would be 8ohms and 85-87dB/2.83v
-I haven't seen any evidence of car specific woofers being specifically designed for any higher vibration or the acoustic challenges of a car interior, compared to home hifi woofers. A large gap between the voicecoil and motor is probably more indicative of poor manufacturing tolerances, than being designed to deal with vehicle vibrations. I have used woofers with extremely soft suspensions (Qts<0.3) in a car application and never once did the voicecoil scrape the sides of the gap.
-They are often built with moisture resistance in mind, since car doors are a wet area and water can splash onto the back of the woofer, not to mention condensation.
The reason for 4ohms is because car headunits run from 12V DC, so if you design an amplifier that only has a 12V power supply then the most power you can get is 9watts into 8ohms. With 4ohm speakers you get 18Watts which is much more reasonable. OEM car speakers these days can even be 2 or 1ohm impedance to extract as much power as possible from a 12V system without resorting to DC-to-DC boost powersupplies for the amplifier (as per aftermarket car amps) which add cost.
The different impedance alone does not result in any other difference in performance of the driver. If you run lower impedance speakers on your home hifi amplifier you'll probably get a little more distortion from the amp at the same power output versus 8ohms, and in extreme cases can damage your amp. Any half decent amp should have overcurrent protection so should not be damaged.
Performance per $ is typically lower than budget home hifi drivers (e.g. Dayton Audio). When I was in to car audio I used to run all home hifi drivers in my car, with 6.5" 8ohm Fs=40Hz woofers in the doors and that sounded a heck of a lot better than any car audio gear I could afford. Those $40 woofers performed as well or better than the woofers in a $500/pr+ component set. Most <$150/pr car speakers are hot garbage.
There is a lot more marketing overhead built into the prices of car audio products compared to entry-mid level DIY home hifi products. There is also more $ spent on looks and installation accessories than outright sonic performance.
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I run a pair of sealed subs that are Infinity 1262w car subs. They do well enough, especially for the money. I reckon most folk I know would be over the moon to have them in their system.
Also there was a Volvo C70 IIRC that had Morel drivers in it... If this video is to be believed, they can't be that bad. Then again, they may be seen as more hifi drivers to begin with.
Can DIY Speakers compete? Check this out! - YouTube
The average car speaker tho, is usually suited to car doors, rear decks etc. I've always associated them with higher QTS, and being something you may want if going with an open baffle setup, but that's probably because I like to goof around on my Pioneer 6x9 test drivers.
Also there was a Volvo C70 IIRC that had Morel drivers in it... If this video is to be believed, they can't be that bad. Then again, they may be seen as more hifi drivers to begin with.
Can DIY Speakers compete? Check this out! - YouTube
The average car speaker tho, is usually suited to car doors, rear decks etc. I've always associated them with higher QTS, and being something you may want if going with an open baffle setup, but that's probably because I like to goof around on my Pioneer 6x9 test drivers.
Thanks for such comprehensive answers. What I'm trying to figure out is how do speakers differ when they're the same construction? Has anyone measured the distortion or frequency linearity of these speakers. Rigid suspension and high Qtc can have hi fi speakers, and they also vary the quality of the money invested. After all, has anyone had the opportunity to hear how car speakers sound at home?
Here it is.
They worked well with good power, but I was frustrated because no one understood my sense of humor ....
JBL GTO 627 Compliance ?
PS: " to prevent overheating I used the paint suitable for high temperatures. I believe that 360 degrees Celsius of protection will be enough "
They worked well with good power, but I was frustrated because no one understood my sense of humor ....
JBL GTO 627 Compliance ?
PS: " to prevent overheating I used the paint suitable for high temperatures. I believe that 360 degrees Celsius of protection will be enough "
But they are NOT the same construction.
Half the answers specifically mention different stiffnes, Q, free air resonant frequency, etc.
Certainly somebody must have measured distortion and frequency response, search around, and not only in DIY Audio.
Even without measuring, I can "hear" they are harsher or more uneven than Hi Fi speakers, and not claiming super calibrated ears, differences are important enough.
MANY have heard how they sound at home, you can too, just buy a pair (they are inexpensive) and listen yourself.
Even better, you can measure them yourself at home, using an electret capsule (the cheapest one still is way flatter than car speakers you are measuring, so results are quite valid) and REW or similar.
FWIW I often use them as gifts for Friends and Family: a couple 6"x9" or round 4" to 6" "coaxials" or twin cone in small cheap MDF boxes painted flat black, one of them holding a 2 x 15W TDA2030 amp (active box second amp drives the passive one too) and a coupe RCA and 1/8" jacks plus a stereo Volume pot cover many bases and are always well appreciated.
In general sound is quite acceptable for casual listening, as shop/garage/patio/"kids"/computer speakers, just don´t have too high hopes which would be unrealistic.
FWIW I had better results from whizzer/twin cone speakers driven by constant current amps (same TDA2030 but with proper NFB) which at least are predictable and smoother and have no crossover gaps than the so called "Coaxials" or "triaxials" with those TERRIBLE "midrange" and "tweeter" units mounted on a plastic bar in front of the "woofer" cone.
At least the "full range" version delivers better/smoother inside their slightly restricted band.
The Full Range guys here in DIY Audio do have a point
EDIT:
as of
He just rambles and rambles with no practical examples, nothing.
Sounds like "Rich Dad Poor Dad" teachings: "you do not need to study", "don´t trust Experts", etc.
His point of "do not use PA speakers because they only reach 45Hz and you NEED 20 Hz" is risible.
Funny detail: his background shows a couple large Cerwin Vega speakers which are PA type, even if a couple models were "officially" built for the Hi Fi market
Half the answers specifically mention different stiffnes, Q, free air resonant frequency, etc.
Certainly somebody must have measured distortion and frequency response, search around, and not only in DIY Audio.
Even without measuring, I can "hear" they are harsher or more uneven than Hi Fi speakers, and not claiming super calibrated ears, differences are important enough.
MANY have heard how they sound at home, you can too, just buy a pair (they are inexpensive) and listen yourself.
Even better, you can measure them yourself at home, using an electret capsule (the cheapest one still is way flatter than car speakers you are measuring, so results are quite valid) and REW or similar.
FWIW I often use them as gifts for Friends and Family: a couple 6"x9" or round 4" to 6" "coaxials" or twin cone in small cheap MDF boxes painted flat black, one of them holding a 2 x 15W TDA2030 amp (active box second amp drives the passive one too) and a coupe RCA and 1/8" jacks plus a stereo Volume pot cover many bases and are always well appreciated.
In general sound is quite acceptable for casual listening, as shop/garage/patio/"kids"/computer speakers, just don´t have too high hopes which would be unrealistic.
FWIW I had better results from whizzer/twin cone speakers driven by constant current amps (same TDA2030 but with proper NFB) which at least are predictable and smoother and have no crossover gaps than the so called "Coaxials" or "triaxials" with those TERRIBLE "midrange" and "tweeter" units mounted on a plastic bar in front of the "woofer" cone.
At least the "full range" version delivers better/smoother inside their slightly restricted band.
The Full Range guys here in DIY Audio do have a point
EDIT:
as of
couldn´t stand him more than 5 minutes and started skippin sections to find some "meat" ..... none to be found.
He just rambles and rambles with no practical examples, nothing.
Sounds like "Rich Dad Poor Dad" teachings: "you do not need to study", "don´t trust Experts", etc.
His point of "do not use PA speakers because they only reach 45Hz and you NEED 20 Hz" is risible.
Funny detail: his background shows a couple large Cerwin Vega speakers which are PA type, even if a couple models were "officially" built for the Hi Fi market
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The first ones (only one speaker per cabinet and tuned) worked very similar to an Infinity SM65 with which I compared them exhaustively. Even the highs of the JBL were more "alive" to me than the Polycell tweeter.
The same refurbished cabinets as you can see in the thread, (because I wanted to give some use to the two extra speakers that I had bought, the idea was to install two in the trunk and two in the car doors, but I abandoned the idea) in a strange MTM / coaxial settings work with more controlled bass if you use them with some power.
I gave them to my daughter along with a Sansuí AU4900 35 watt / channel amplifier and tone controls, which was very useful in achieving the "punch" that young people prefer.
Interesting opinions but not my experience. In the near field automotive 5.25 or 6.5 coaxial can do a good to great job. A pair of infinity in Polk R30 cabs sound significantly better then the Polk speakers at any listening range. With separates car speakers don’t have a price advantage and crossovers have been talked about.
For subs many times automotive speakers can often be a great advantage. I would NEVER worry about a 4 ohm because I would not own an amp that could not handle this. I have many examples of car subs in home use, many times an properly specd home sub does not exist or is cost prohibitive. Currently I have a pair of jbl gt1000 10” woofers replacing the stock woofers in my Boston A150. The jbl have the same ohm and sensitivity rating as the stock woofers but go deeper and are cleaner, a slight crossover mod helps even more.
For subs many times automotive speakers can often be a great advantage. I would NEVER worry about a 4 ohm because I would not own an amp that could not handle this. I have many examples of car subs in home use, many times an properly specd home sub does not exist or is cost prohibitive. Currently I have a pair of jbl gt1000 10” woofers replacing the stock woofers in my Boston A150. The jbl have the same ohm and sensitivity rating as the stock woofers but go deeper and are cleaner, a slight crossover mod helps even more.
Okay, but for the newcomer who's not fluent in crossover design or case type and volume, it's a "poor man's" solution
that can be pleasantly surprising if you use big name brands. Just make a box, cut out the hole, screw them together and listen.When I worked at Rexson, who built the line of car spakers in the province of San Luis, one of the most demanded was the 6x9 "triaxial.
