Why not start with measurements first, a la Simon7000? It would be arduous for sure. The lack of insistence from the measurement camp on measurements is curious.
SY, re: your earlier question, just being my usual robotic 'completionist'. Dielectrics are part of the cable system. If a comfort mechanism is required, how about the rapid charge/discharge across zero - except for Audioquest DC polarized cables. 🙂
I don't put people on ignore lists. And can't think of why I would have put you on ignore even if I did.
Well, it seems to be about the only possible answer anyway.
So then, if there's anything to it vis a vis break-in, one would expect a wire's resistance to change after break-in. This is something which could be rather easily tested.
And then of course one would have to show that whatever change of resistance there might be is sufficient enough to produce an audible difference.
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As a parenthesis, I've been fighting a feverish cold/flu of some kind for four days, so even though I have better things to do, there's no energy left but for clicking here and there on the web...
Here's another paper that we could use in our speculations on materials science.
"Recovery of electrical resistivity of copper after high frequency fatigue (ultrasonic fatigue at 20 kHz)"
by
W. Kromp and B. Weiss
An excerpt:
"The production of large concentrations of point defects during cyclic stressing of metals and alloys is evidenced by high resistivity increases (1, 2, 3, 4),
fatigue softening (5), enhanced diffusion rates (6), acceleration of G. P. - zone formation (7), temperature dependence of mechanical properties (8, 9) etc. Recovery experiments of the electrical resistivity presents a means to give valuable informations about defect structures. However, only few data are available about recovery phenomena after fatigue (1, 2, 10)."
Their reference (3) is
"Recovery in copper after fatigue at 78°K"
by
A. K. Eikum and I. Holwech
Excerpt:
"Recovery phenomena in cold worked copper have been studied by a number of investigators who, in most cases, observed a continuous recovery spectrum in the low tempera- ture region after relatively large tensile or compressive deformation (For Review see Ref. i). That is, well-defined annealing stages were either absent or difficult to recognize, and this has been attributed to the variety of complex defects which make up the deformation "debris". Calorimetric measurements of the release of stored energy do give indications of several discrete recovery stages (2) as do resistivity measurements after only small strains (3). The purpose of this note is to briefly describe the observed isochronal recovery following cyclic deformation at 78°K.
Specimens were prepared from 0.050 inch strips of nominally 99.999% pure copper.
After annealing for 1⁄2 hour at 800°C in a slightly oxidizing atmosphere (flowing argon) the
R(295°K) resistance ratio was R(4.2OK) = 630. The 0.050 inch thick specimens were deformed in four
point bending at 1725 cpm in a bath of liquid nitrogen, and the changes in electrical resistance monitored, during both fatigue and subsequent recovery, using a standard potentiometric method. The isochronal annealing rate was l°C/min, from -200 to +180°C using 10°C steps, and 21⁄2°C/min. above 180@C where it was necessary to anneal in increments of 50°C."
Here's another paper that we could use in our speculations on materials science.
"Recovery of electrical resistivity of copper after high frequency fatigue (ultrasonic fatigue at 20 kHz)"
by
W. Kromp and B. Weiss
An excerpt:
"The production of large concentrations of point defects during cyclic stressing of metals and alloys is evidenced by high resistivity increases (1, 2, 3, 4),
fatigue softening (5), enhanced diffusion rates (6), acceleration of G. P. - zone formation (7), temperature dependence of mechanical properties (8, 9) etc. Recovery experiments of the electrical resistivity presents a means to give valuable informations about defect structures. However, only few data are available about recovery phenomena after fatigue (1, 2, 10)."
Their reference (3) is
"Recovery in copper after fatigue at 78°K"
by
A. K. Eikum and I. Holwech
Excerpt:
"Recovery phenomena in cold worked copper have been studied by a number of investigators who, in most cases, observed a continuous recovery spectrum in the low tempera- ture region after relatively large tensile or compressive deformation (For Review see Ref. i). That is, well-defined annealing stages were either absent or difficult to recognize, and this has been attributed to the variety of complex defects which make up the deformation "debris". Calorimetric measurements of the release of stored energy do give indications of several discrete recovery stages (2) as do resistivity measurements after only small strains (3). The purpose of this note is to briefly describe the observed isochronal recovery following cyclic deformation at 78°K.
Specimens were prepared from 0.050 inch strips of nominally 99.999% pure copper.
After annealing for 1⁄2 hour at 800°C in a slightly oxidizing atmosphere (flowing argon) the
R(295°K) resistance ratio was R(4.2OK) = 630. The 0.050 inch thick specimens were deformed in four
point bending at 1725 cpm in a bath of liquid nitrogen, and the changes in electrical resistance monitored, during both fatigue and subsequent recovery, using a standard potentiometric method. The isochronal annealing rate was l°C/min, from -200 to +180°C using 10°C steps, and 21⁄2°C/min. above 180@C where it was necessary to anneal in increments of 50°C."
More likely is that
1) He thought that copper sounded better than silver. (Whatever "better" means).
2) After a while he found that the silver sounded better than the copper so concluded that the silver had "broken in."
How anyone can remember how something sounded (days? weeks? ago) while excluding ALL the other changing influences such as mood, mental preoccupation, the weather &c &c I do not know.
But then I'm not a paid-up GEB member.
That is not correct. He still had the original broken-in copper cable to compare, after the silver broke in.
Andre, at least I tend to understand you. I originally did NOT like the sound of silver wire. That's when my associate told me that it had to be broken-in first. And there it was. Now, my CTC Blowtorch is all silver cable, and I love it. I have compared it to very high quality copper wire in a few other Blowtorch's that I made, when I could not get the silver wire, and the copper is too soft sounding, almost smeary. Bear, you were right! Darn it.
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Neither do I, and I believe there good evidence that aural memory is very unreliable.
If Andre had just burnt in one cable and then compared the two it would have been more believable. He probably would not agree with this requirement as he has previously claimed he can reliably identify the sonic footprint of cables that he hasn't heard for at least a year. (in the cable thread).
I'm afraid it was you who missed the point. The orange HD cables Scott was talking about are indeed my speaker cables.
So, from the two or three pages of foot-stamping since I was around this morning, I'm still safe assuming that you still have no EVIDENCE?
Asian women and tortoises? Huh? Where did that come from?
Form the essay "Why I am not a Christian", the first cause argument
..... If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause. If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God, so there cannot be any validility to that argument. It is exactly the same nature as the Hindu's view, that the world rested upon an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, 'How about the tortoise' the Indian said, 'Supose we change the subject'. The argument really is no better than that.
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That has nothing to do with it. IF you have two cables: One copper (broken-in), one silver (brand-new), you carefully listen to them and compare. This time copper wins.
Later, after you have separately and formerly broken-in the silver with pink noise, you try the direct A-B comparison test again. This time the SILVER wins! Wow, what a concept. It has been done dozens if not 100's of times. It has NOTHING with former memory, because you are comparing both cables at the same time.
Now, Andre, if this doesn't do it, then please note that nothing ever will.
Later, after you have separately and formerly broken-in the silver with pink noise, you try the direct A-B comparison test again. This time the SILVER wins! Wow, what a concept. It has been done dozens if not 100's of times. It has NOTHING with former memory, because you are comparing both cables at the same time.
Now, Andre, if this doesn't do it, then please note that nothing ever will.
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Well I've read everything by the guy published (except the math) including the newspaper articles, autobiographical stuff and short works of fiction, and I still have no idea where your Asian woman and her tortoises comes from.
What is missing here is that just because a change in properties is possible under special conditions doesn't mean that it affects the sound.
So explain all those cases (and they are numerous indeed) where:
It sounded (chose your adjective; horrible, harsh, strident etc) but after a few days it sounded sweet.
Ipso Facto: burn-in works.
"Burn in" is a wonderful thing for people who sell things. Any effect that doesn't suit the customer's system when first heard can be put down to burn in. So the customer can't immediately return the goods.
The customer's brain eventually burns in ..... bingo another sale.
The customer's brain eventually burns in ..... bingo another sale.
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