Let me attempt to straighten this out. First, Andre did a CONNECTING CABLE comparison test where he first found copper to sound better than silver, then AFTER the silver cable was truly broken in, he found the silver connecting cable to sound better.
Scott Wurcer, comparatively clueless, posed the question of how this related to SY's obviously copper POWER CABLES. Since Scott had completely missed the point, and even where the comparison was made, I teased him with when did SY get silver power cords? Because, only with silver power cords would break-in problems be partially comparable to Andre's cable comparison, which was between copper and silver, and then break-in, where silver sounded bad at first, then got better than copper, later.
Scott Wurcer, comparatively clueless, posed the question of how this related to SY's obviously copper POWER CABLES. Since Scott had completely missed the point, and even where the comparison was made, I teased him with when did SY get silver power cords? Because, only with silver power cords would break-in problems be partially comparable to Andre's cable comparison, which was between copper and silver, and then break-in, where silver sounded bad at first, then got better than copper, later.
I cannot convince anyone who has not the will or the way to do a cable comparison, whether what I say is real for them, or not.
In fact, I can't prove to anyone that the world is round either, to someone isolated enough, let's say on a desert island, who doesn't want to believe me. Does this change reality?
Many of you here have been bombarded by negative input about audio differences. Do you not think that Randi doesn't make money from his condemnations? Others may do it to ease their minds of what they cannot 'prove'. Who cares why?
In fact, I can't prove to anyone that the world is round either, to someone isolated enough, let's say on a desert island, who doesn't want to believe me. Does this change reality?
Many of you here have been bombarded by negative input about audio differences. Do you not think that Randi doesn't make money from his condemnations? Others may do it to ease their minds of what they cannot 'prove'. Who cares why?
I agree that some people even don't want the test, they simply believe what they believe. But think of all the people who WOULD LIKE to find out if the difference is there. I hope to speak for those, and WE DEMAND A TEST. 🙂 You guys are the connected ones in the audio high end, you guys have the capability to run such a test, you guys are the ones who meet at various meets and shows, you guys are the ones that should organize it. We, the rest, can be asked to help, and we may help however we can. How about that? Would SY agree to such a thing? Would you John? Andre Visser? Any of you other major player guys here? (I wish curly was still around.)
Perhaps 100 years ago, the late Bertrand Russell had a conversation with an Asian woman at a dinner party. It came to be that she believed that the world was placed on the back of a giant turtle. When he politely asked what this turtle was resting on, she replied, another turtle. Then he asked what that turtle was resting on, and she got the drift of his argument, so she said it's turtles all the way. How about that?
The turtle is highly symbolic in Asian culture, maybe Bertrand "didn't get it". Go go Gamera!
Member
Joined 2002
I bought some of this stuff a few weeks ago, ( 25' 24 AWG Black Shielded Silver Teflon Wire Coax )
and is VERY nice stuff, small but very nice, i like it alot.
Also bought some of this wire, to witch the person i made speaker cables for LOVES.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and is VERY nice stuff, small but very nice, i like it alot.
Also bought some of this wire, to witch the person i made speaker cables for LOVES.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You mean to tell me, Scott, that her spiritual belief in turtles, is more real than our actual listening experiences, done with quality equipment?
John, with your love of Japanese cinema I'm honestly surprised by this comment.
What was the question?
If it's about all the random scientific knowledge about metals I really don't know much of anything about copper migration and stability of different metals etc... when you start throwing in variables like possible additives to prevent these various phenomenon. I do know that the non climate controlled high humidity environment I grew up in was not friendly to audio electronics and various mix matching of non treated metals. But I am not so sure they don't just powder most copper with some additive that lessens most of the stuff I saw in the 80s on a shoe string budget.
If it's about all the random scientific knowledge about metals I really don't know much of anything about copper migration and stability of different metals etc... when you start throwing in variables like possible additives to prevent these various phenomenon. I do know that the non climate controlled high humidity environment I grew up in was not friendly to audio electronics and various mix matching of non treated metals. But I am not so sure they don't just powder most copper with some additive that lessens most of the stuff I saw in the 80s on a shoe string budget.
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OK guys, no smoke and mirrors please. Incidentally, while I respect Bertrand Russell the mathematician, I am less impressed by his other facets.
Back on topic please. John, I'm willing to go along the materials science path a bit. But I'm not an expert, so I'd like to get other people's opinion on this paper:
"The effect of high current pulsing on persistent slip bands in fatigued copper single crystals"
by
Xiao Suhong,Zhou Yizhoua, Guo Jingdonga, Wu Shidingb, Yao Geb, Li Shouxinb, He Guanhua and Zhou Benliana
Here's the abstract:
"Copper single crystals fatigued along Image loading axis were treated by high current pulsing after the formation of persistent slip bands (PSBs). The results show that the treatment by electropulsing made the PSBs vanish locally. This is due to the thermal compressive stress induced by electropulsing, which reduced the stress concentration at the interface between PSBs and matrix. The annihilation of edge dislocations reduced the width of PSBs and made the PSBs vanish locally. The main factor that made the dislocations move was the thermal compressive stress. The velocity of the dislocation motion is about (103–102) cm s−1."
And here's the intro:
"Persistent slip bands (PSBs) play an important role in basic research [1, 2 and 3] on fatigue. It is well known that there are abrupt changes of the dislocation density and distribution between the PSBs and matrix. One may then expect these interfaces to serve as preferential sites for fatigue crack nucleation. Materials suffer severe damage once a fatigue crack nucleates. This kind of damage is unavoidable during the processing and application of materials. A method for avoiding the crack nucleation must have the following characteristics: (a) Structure of PSBs can be destroyed to lower the possibility of the formation of cracks; (b) Effect on matrix must be small. Otherwise, this kind of method would be useless, or even harmful.
Although some studies had been carried out, all of them were based on the motion of dislocation during plastic deformation. No work has been done on the application of electropulsing after fatigue tests, where the stable dislocation structures have been formed and severe damage of the specimen has been caused by the formation of PSBs. In the present work, electropulsing is employed to solve the above problems. It was chosen for five reasons: (a) Electrical conductivity is one of the most structure sensitive parameters in metallic materials [4 and 5] and is one of the most important quantities in the interaction between electropulsing and metallic materials [6 and 7]; (b) The effect of electropulsing on the matrix has been proved to be very small [8 and 9]; (c) Some experimental studies have been carried out on the electroplastic effect [10, 11, 12, 13 and 14] and electromigration [15, 16 and 17]; (d) In recent years, electropulsing has proved to be an effective way to cause reorganization of the microstructure of materials and to improve their properties [18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 and 24]; (e) Electropulsing is easily controlled and performed in practice."
He who wants the whole paper send me email via the PM thing.
Back on topic please. John, I'm willing to go along the materials science path a bit. But I'm not an expert, so I'd like to get other people's opinion on this paper:
"The effect of high current pulsing on persistent slip bands in fatigued copper single crystals"
by
Xiao Suhong,Zhou Yizhoua, Guo Jingdonga, Wu Shidingb, Yao Geb, Li Shouxinb, He Guanhua and Zhou Benliana
Here's the abstract:
"Copper single crystals fatigued along Image loading axis were treated by high current pulsing after the formation of persistent slip bands (PSBs). The results show that the treatment by electropulsing made the PSBs vanish locally. This is due to the thermal compressive stress induced by electropulsing, which reduced the stress concentration at the interface between PSBs and matrix. The annihilation of edge dislocations reduced the width of PSBs and made the PSBs vanish locally. The main factor that made the dislocations move was the thermal compressive stress. The velocity of the dislocation motion is about (103–102) cm s−1."
And here's the intro:
"Persistent slip bands (PSBs) play an important role in basic research [1, 2 and 3] on fatigue. It is well known that there are abrupt changes of the dislocation density and distribution between the PSBs and matrix. One may then expect these interfaces to serve as preferential sites for fatigue crack nucleation. Materials suffer severe damage once a fatigue crack nucleates. This kind of damage is unavoidable during the processing and application of materials. A method for avoiding the crack nucleation must have the following characteristics: (a) Structure of PSBs can be destroyed to lower the possibility of the formation of cracks; (b) Effect on matrix must be small. Otherwise, this kind of method would be useless, or even harmful.
Although some studies had been carried out, all of them were based on the motion of dislocation during plastic deformation. No work has been done on the application of electropulsing after fatigue tests, where the stable dislocation structures have been formed and severe damage of the specimen has been caused by the formation of PSBs. In the present work, electropulsing is employed to solve the above problems. It was chosen for five reasons: (a) Electrical conductivity is one of the most structure sensitive parameters in metallic materials [4 and 5] and is one of the most important quantities in the interaction between electropulsing and metallic materials [6 and 7]; (b) The effect of electropulsing on the matrix has been proved to be very small [8 and 9]; (c) Some experimental studies have been carried out on the electroplastic effect [10, 11, 12, 13 and 14] and electromigration [15, 16 and 17]; (d) In recent years, electropulsing has proved to be an effective way to cause reorganization of the microstructure of materials and to improve their properties [18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 and 24]; (e) Electropulsing is easily controlled and performed in practice."
He who wants the whole paper send me email via the PM thing.
Looks good. It should be noted that the process is powered by the pursuit to the lowest energy state. Think about it. You squeeze, twist, pound metal, and sometimes you create places that are a bad fit and want to get free, IF they can. Sometimes, time, cryoing, or even break-in can give the extra stress to push the boulder over the hill, so to speak, or to create the avalanche that fills the void.
So, we'll take it a 1/2 step at a time then. To me it is conceivable that cables get physically treated roughly before they arrive to the customer. It's not unreasonable to expect fatigued areas. Here I start speculating. The fatigued areas may influence electrical properties of the conduit. These influences are audible by a select few with select devices? Then, the burn-in process mends to some extent the structural "damage" of the fatigued areas, via some effect of passing current.
Now if I think of it this way, it would nicely fit with the capacitor burn-in phenomenon? Is it reasonable to expect that the capacitor foils incur structural fatigue when they get rolled, and that the damage gets alleviated by some continuous usage?
Now if I think of it this way, it would nicely fit with the capacitor burn-in phenomenon? Is it reasonable to expect that the capacitor foils incur structural fatigue when they get rolled, and that the damage gets alleviated by some continuous usage?
Great. So what electrical properties of the wire would this have any meaningful effect on?
se
No disrespect meant Steve, here's an excerpt of my post above. Unless I'm on your ignore list, then you won't see this or my previous message:
"Although some studies had been carried out, all of them were based on the motion of dislocation during plastic deformation. No work has been done on the application of electropulsing after fatigue tests, where the stable dislocation structures have been formed and severe damage of the specimen has been caused by the formation of PSBs. In the present work, electropulsing is employed to solve the above problems. It was chosen for five reasons: (a) Electrical conductivity is one of the most structure sensitive parameters in metallic materials [4 and 5] and is one of the most important quantities in the interaction between electropulsing and metallic materials [6 and 7];"
Would the last sentence answer your question?
"Although some studies had been carried out, all of them were based on the motion of dislocation during plastic deformation. No work has been done on the application of electropulsing after fatigue tests, where the stable dislocation structures have been formed and severe damage of the specimen has been caused by the formation of PSBs. In the present work, electropulsing is employed to solve the above problems. It was chosen for five reasons: (a) Electrical conductivity is one of the most structure sensitive parameters in metallic materials [4 and 5] and is one of the most important quantities in the interaction between electropulsing and metallic materials [6 and 7];"
Would the last sentence answer your question?
If you think it is not a waste of time I will do it, just have to organise some new cables without paying for it. 🙂
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