It is unfortunate that many of you do not understand why I even bother to debate this stuff. I am here to teach. I am getting old, I have spent my life looking at this stuff, and I am trying to share what I have learned, especially the general concepts. It seems to me that the old adage 'To teach a person to fish, is better than just giving a person a fish' is appropriate here. That is why I push toward general principles, rather than specific schematics. To give you a schematic to copy once, perhaps haphazardly, is a waste of my and your time. To get you to understand the subtle differences between schematics is my goal.
Andre is not ignorant, he did the cable comparison to his satisfaction. His results parallel ours. It is only you and your cronies who refuse to listen to differences openly.
My wife gave me two for Christmas. Still can't figure out how those folks in Pudong airport made it look so easy. 🙂
John lets start with virtually all cable makers buy their starting materials from the same few global suppliers, so why would any cable behave any differently than SY's orange HD extention cord to burn in?
That's right and both are screened twisted pair cables.
I guess I must have read about your findings in a dream even before I've joined diyAudio, must be delusion. 🙂
The first blind test just confirmed what I've heard during sighted listening, after burn-in the difference (both sighted and blind) was so obvious that it would have been a waste of time to continue.
Just for your information, this test were done before I knew of all you clever guys here so I did it to satisfy my own interest. 😉
Thanks Andre, I sure wish that I didn't hear cable differences, myself, it is so tedious and expensive to do it right.
John, don't worry, it's much easier to find fault or even twist around what was said than to discuss more technical issues.
TWO, you lucky XXXX. 😀 There are only one way, practice, practice, practice... Beware it can be addictive.
It may not be correct but my experience so far is that the better (in material quality) cables take longer to burn-in.
Banish, isolate, delete & crush have never struck me as solid science.
I don't hear burn-in on my system but has it been considered yet that dielectrics, connectors, solders/crimps might change under load?
John, I got acess to both references. While it's useful info, it's rather hard to connect it to the problem at hand. If anything one could make some sort of inference that there are subtle effects that people often overlook, ok. Anyway, these sources in the best case would explain the cause of a problem that hasn't been well defined in scientific terms.
IMHO, the existence of the phenomenon should be first established beyond any reasonable doubt. A sample of one is enough. At this point if one of those who claim can hear the difference do not want to participate in a well conceived test there is little point in continuing the discussion.
IMHO, the existence of the phenomenon should be first established beyond any reasonable doubt. A sample of one is enough. At this point if one of those who claim can hear the difference do not want to participate in a well conceived test there is little point in continuing the discussion.
I do? When did those arrive, maybe with the last care package from the Elders of Zion?
NOTHING has to be established beyond reasonable doubt. Why?
Everyone would just try to understand that there really are differences between materials, and their refinement, and that working with metals changes their characteristics, that geometries, including wire thickness and geometrical arrangements change the inductance and capacitance per unit length of a wire, and finally, the simple ping pong ball model of electron flow falls apart in many instances. For example, what is the difference between elastic and inelastic electrons? What does it mean? How could it be a problem? etc. etc.
Everyone would just try to understand that there really are differences between materials, and their refinement, and that working with metals changes their characteristics, that geometries, including wire thickness and geometrical arrangements change the inductance and capacitance per unit length of a wire, and finally, the simple ping pong ball model of electron flow falls apart in many instances. For example, what is the difference between elastic and inelastic electrons? What does it mean? How could it be a problem? etc. etc.
No SY, they were the personal possession of my former business partner, BOB CRUMP, one of the 'C's in CTC. He died, and this cable accidently landed in my hands, with a pile of less interesting stuff.
You're neither debating nor teaching. You're just throwing out stuff you yourself don't even understand as if it has some particular relevance. That's not debating or teaching, it's just hand-waving.
se
Not gold, not silver, but aluminium....this is the best speaker cable, which I know...Do you ask why ? 'cos both wires are perfect mechanically stable one another thank to foam insulation...
Coaxial Cable & Transmission Line, 1-5/8" & 2-1/4" Transmission Line | TESSCO 800 472 7373
Coaxial Cable & Transmission Line, 1-5/8" & 2-1/4" Transmission Line | TESSCO 800 472 7373
Because then it is established and cannot be refuted.
I don't think people doubt that such differences exist and also that there are subtle effects at the sub-atomic level. BUT the key is to link these with the "burn-in" phenomenon. All of these things that you mention above may qualify for an EXPLANATION of the phenomenon, but first its EXISTENCE should be established for everyone, scientifically.
John, you will never be able to convince someone who hasn't heard the difference that it exists with indirect and remote inference from materials science. It's just how I see it, sorry. I wouldn't be convinced by it either. At most it would make me think there might be something there. Since I'm not a physicist I feel awkward to mention Einstein's general relativity and his direct predictions of physical phenomena. Were there doubters until Eddington's confirmation in 1919? Yes. A theory remains a theory until it is confirmed by observed facts.
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