PE has a nice 7" aluminum driver that looks great and Zilch built the Indignias with it. A 2.5 way TMM might be a worthy project.
I looked it up and they are the Dayton DA-175 woofers. I've not tried this driver but I do have the 10" version, the DA-270.
I tested it out in a BR and Sealed box and I wasn't impressed by it. Though bass is plentiful, the problem is it's not clear enough. What I call "bloom".
It's likely that the DA-175 will exhibit the same characteristics.
The Dayton RS series, on the other hand, has much better bass and transient response. I can verify this because I have the RS-180 and the RS-180P.
I tested it out in a BR and Sealed box and I wasn't impressed by it. Though bass is plentiful, the problem is it's not clear enough. What I call "bloom".
It's likely that the DA-175 will exhibit the same characteristics.
The Dayton RS series, on the other hand, has much better bass and transient response. I can verify this because I have the RS-180 and the RS-180P.
Thanks for posting that, hweb! I'm ordering 4 of those tomorrow-- I procrastinated and missed out on the original availability of those horns as a spare part from QSC, then missed out on the re-release buy that Parts Express got from QSC, then missed out on the PRV clone. Not this time 🙂
2 will get used with a pair of JBL 2204H and 2426H drivers for a 3-Pi/econowave clone.
For the second pair, I've been looking at Bill Waslos's Small Syns project: Small Syns
and thinking... hmm these QSC clone horns might be easier to work into a Synergy horn than the SEOS-15... and i can get the Celestion TF0410MR that Bill uses locally for a reasonable price...
Sorry to hijack this with unrelated project ideas, but to the OP: if you can work with the 10" height of this 10" x 14" horn, don't hesitate. You need a horn this size if you want a directivity match with a 15. The PH612 will be a serious compromise. It would work maybe ok with a 12" woofer. What hweb said. 🙂 Just remember, you need the bolt-on version of the driver: Selenium D220Ti-OMF-8 1" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm 2/3 Bolt
to work with this horn.
You didn't. 🙂 Thanks for the info, I can make that fit, I just need to create a top extension on my boxes or make a cut with the angle of the horn (which I'd prefer to do)
18 sound xt1086 clone
I have obtained a very nice sound with Selenium d220ti screwable version, an adaptor and a chinese clone of eigtheen sound xt1086. With only a series 3uF cap, a `parallel 1 mH coil plus 30 Ohms R, and an lpad to adjust level, measured some 30 cm from mouth look like this (i`m using it with a 10` woofer, though). The flatter response is with the simple passive x`over. The other is with no crossover.
Cheers
I have obtained a very nice sound with Selenium d220ti screwable version, an adaptor and a chinese clone of eigtheen sound xt1086. With only a series 3uF cap, a `parallel 1 mH coil plus 30 Ohms R, and an lpad to adjust level, measured some 30 cm from mouth look like this (i`m using it with a 10` woofer, though). The flatter response is with the simple passive x`over. The other is with no crossover.
Cheers
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another view, two drivers nicely matched, indoors, some 30 cm from mouth, measured using a DIY mic with CMA-4544 (CUI inc) electret capsule, and the laptop card; nothing fancy, but good enough for government work.
D220ti is tweaker`s delight: some felt on the backcup, a copper ring made with a circular soldered wire tightly packed in the bottom of the voiice coil gap, and a very thin coat of diluted modgepodge in the diaphragm (use a turntable and a camel hair brush to do it neatly).
I always tought that reflections on the back chamber were part of the `intended design` -original voicing- of the driver; anyway, the sound gains in midrange weight and smoothness with some felt added. I used the tight wool variant.
If you go this way, use a battery to center the voice coil prior to the adjustment of the 4 screws that hold the backcup: the `autocenter` ring is for a hurry and ballparking, but the response is vastly bettered (and pairs easily matched) with a very short pulse from 3 volts DC to center the VC.
D220ti is tweaker`s delight: some felt on the backcup, a copper ring made with a circular soldered wire tightly packed in the bottom of the voiice coil gap, and a very thin coat of diluted modgepodge in the diaphragm (use a turntable and a camel hair brush to do it neatly).
I always tought that reflections on the back chamber were part of the `intended design` -original voicing- of the driver; anyway, the sound gains in midrange weight and smoothness with some felt added. I used the tight wool variant.
If you go this way, use a battery to center the voice coil prior to the adjustment of the 4 screws that hold the backcup: the `autocenter` ring is for a hurry and ballparking, but the response is vastly bettered (and pairs easily matched) with a very short pulse from 3 volts DC to center the VC.
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I was looking at those, not so sure how I feel about the diffraction throat in the XT-1086 and its clones, though... they also offer a smaller elliptical horn which looks a lot like the EOS-6 that Erich at DIYSoundGroup was selling: China Loudspeaker Horn for Tweeter Hot Selling 165L*135W*60h 1" (019A) - China Loudspeaker, Horn
I've been trying to buy some EOS-6 and EOS-8 from Erich. He says he still has some cases of them *somewhere* but can't find them just now...😕
I'm looking for tweeter horns, pattern control down to 2.0-2.5kHz will do. Federico, how was your experience (ease of transaction) dealing with this Chinese supplier?
Thanks for your comments.
-Peter
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Those look interesting, but there's no p-audio distributor in Canada, and sometimes it's way easier for me to order stuff from China than it is to order from the U.S.A... go figure
I had the PH-170, I used it with BMS4524 and B&C DE250.
The sound is not OK. I don't have measurements now, but trust me.
This one is very good above 2k:
Eighteensound XT 120 – Thomann UK
The sound is not OK. I don't have measurements now, but trust me.
This one is very good above 2k:
Eighteensound XT 120 – Thomann UK
Hi Peter; Did not have to deal with the chinese manufacturer, because somebody imported (to Argentina) some of this horns and I bought them via the local ebay (`mercado libre` is the name here). Build quality is very good (the polyuretane is heavy and non resonant; the throat is exactly rounded, nothing to file or sand.
Concerning the oval difraction slot, it`s not very obtrusive, at least at normal SPL`s. I haven`t taken polars, but subjectively, and mostly nearfield, I have noticed some `detectability`of high treble emanating from the horn, at some 45/50 degrees off axis . I mean, some faint uneven off axis `sparkle` that is position dependent at 1 m from horn-, but which dissapears at 2/3 m-.
Anyway, sound is extremely detailed, with nice delineation of voices and very dynamic rendition of percussive sounds and transients. The aural signature (at least in a modestly sized room, 2/3 meters from horn) is akin to listening to very good quality headphones. Perhaps, because of the absence of reflections. In my space doesn`t sound harsh, neither shouty or `mechanic`.
Cheers.
Digression concerning crossovers:
From the beginning, some years ago, for compensation I did very simple `derated` 12 dB/oct crossovers, à la JBL L200t3, with some padding. Waveguides were some 6 inches round, or butt cheek style, and even some 18sound xt120.
With that style of crossover, the sound was detailed, integrated and with excellent `projection` of treble and high mids.
Later, I turned to crossovers à la Wayne Parnham or Zilch (quasi textbook, but with fixed pad and a parallel capacitor to taylor eq and driver behaviour).
I don`t know how I managed to spoil them, but with the later kind of x`overs I detected some shouting, namely some kind of `PA` style sound, even in a round, very shallow 6" waveguide. Perhaps the horns weren`t loading accordingly, or perhaps I was someway upsetting the driver... don`t know.
Later on, I returned to the simple crossovers to regain that lost ease of sound.
I don`t mean that more complex crossovers are bad per se; I think that I don`t have the instruments to tune them adequately. Did a lot of parts substitution, etc; the usual stuff, but the simple crossovers followed by a variable Lpad always sounded better.
From the beginning, some years ago, for compensation I did very simple `derated` 12 dB/oct crossovers, à la JBL L200t3, with some padding. Waveguides were some 6 inches round, or butt cheek style, and even some 18sound xt120.
With that style of crossover, the sound was detailed, integrated and with excellent `projection` of treble and high mids.
Later, I turned to crossovers à la Wayne Parnham or Zilch (quasi textbook, but with fixed pad and a parallel capacitor to taylor eq and driver behaviour).
I don`t know how I managed to spoil them, but with the later kind of x`overs I detected some shouting, namely some kind of `PA` style sound, even in a round, very shallow 6" waveguide. Perhaps the horns weren`t loading accordingly, or perhaps I was someway upsetting the driver... don`t know.
Later on, I returned to the simple crossovers to regain that lost ease of sound.
I don`t mean that more complex crossovers are bad per se; I think that I don`t have the instruments to tune them adequately. Did a lot of parts substitution, etc; the usual stuff, but the simple crossovers followed by a variable Lpad always sounded better.
Yes, I like it very much; sounds very good from 2/3 kHz up to 15kHz on axis but directivity is notorious, even for non-trained ears. The high midrange sweet spot is relatively ample, but with some loss of HF in the 8/15 kHz range: it sounds more integrated on a restricted axis.
Anyway, I don`t care a lot about constant directivity as a holy grail (personal view), and between practical limits I can live with some directional aberrations.
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Interesting, thanks.
I had wondered if it'd be good for use with dome tweeters, like the shallow waveguides shown on this site:
Hochtoner mit Waveguide – Heissmann Acoustics
