Beyma Liberty vs. Beyma 12P80Nd
They made a nice effort with that 12" Liberty 8 driver. Is that new? (Someone call it JBL E-120 replica)
12" Beyma Liberty 8
Does anyone know more about this driver, that is not in the "new" Beyma' list or "discontinued" one and why?! Maybe OEM or special edition? 🙂
Beyma 12P80Nd (compare)
Nice comparing distortion difference more than 40dBs. Mms is 56gr (Liberty is 57gr, Fs is lower also at 37Hz, sensitivity higher, looks like a good product.) You should be the judge (side by side audition)! 😀
BEYMA
They made a nice effort with that 12" Liberty 8 driver. Is that new? (Someone call it JBL E-120 replica)
12" Beyma Liberty 8
Does anyone know more about this driver, that is not in the "new" Beyma' list or "discontinued" one and why?! Maybe OEM or special edition? 🙂
Beyma 12P80Nd (compare)
Nice comparing distortion difference more than 40dBs. Mms is 56gr (Liberty is 57gr, Fs is lower also at 37Hz, sensitivity higher, looks like a good product.) You should be the judge (side by side audition)! 😀
Angelo thank you my good friend. I'll do just that!
I'm listening to: Breakfast in America by Supertramp
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Unfortunately 12P80ND is to pricey for me 🙁
In case of 12" driver I can go with Liberty 8 (e120), 12MI100 or 12P80FE.
My thinking is that to get detail I need good transient response. To get transient response I need good BL/MMS ratio.
Best BL/MMS one can find with 10MI100 but as I wrote it has a bad dip in response so I had to abbandon it.
Next best ratio one can find in 12MI100.
Another story is XMAX. Doesn't it help in providing low MMS (and therefore better midrange)?
Another thing is underhung/overhung voicecoil but Beyma does not provide that info.
Hi Inductor!
I found the Liberty-8 12" driver at US Speaker. Here's a link to the Beyma Liberty-8 12" driver and it's specifications. I hope this helps you.
I'm listening to: Breakfast in America by Supertramp.
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
They provide a lot, and I don't know how to read mechanical parameters exactly, but something is there: the voice coil for the Beyma LIBERTY is 9 mm and gap is 9.5 mm so it is almost Equal-length (?) coil, help me here. Now for the Beyma 12P80Nd coil is 20 mm and gap is 12 mm so... its Overhanging coil.
Voice coil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
KLIPPEL
You can always call (Beyma) if in doubt. "La lluvia en Sevilla es una maravilla..." 😀 😀
I've heard lots of good stuff about the Beyma Liberty 8 on Swedish forums, with Ingvar Ahlberg leading the praise. He says it's the "holy grail of mid-range drivers". I would go with the Liberty 8 if the 12P80Nd is too expensive.
I am slow, but I just remembered two designs done by Thorsten Loesch for Tangen AV Design. The Tangen AV Design website does not seem to exist anymore, but I have the designs for the XO and cabinets for both units. The Inconcert Miles uses the Beyma TPL-150H with 2x Beyma 15P80nd, and the Inconcert Duke uses the uses the Beyma TPL-150 with 2x Beyma 12P1000nd. If anyone is interested, I could try to post the designs. Alternatively, if anyone could tell me where I can upload the files (PDFs) to so everyone can see them, I will do that.
Deon
PS. I intended posting this in another thread, but I guess it is just as appropriate here.
Deon
PS. I intended posting this in another thread, but I guess it is just as appropriate here.
If you have the web address, it can be acessed through way back machine :
Internet Archive: Wayback Machine
True, but I don't think you'd be able to download the speaker design PDFs through Wayback Machine. I have those for whoever is interested, but I just need a way to make them available.
Deon
PS. The website was http://www.tangenavdesign.com/. It was the baby of Stig Erik Tangen. Here are the details courtesy of Wayback Machine and Google Translate:
Inconcert Miles
Inconcert Duke
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this is the best stuff out there. you can beat any us$ 200k speaker with it.
there is a new air motion available from Beyma , with 120 watts, rather than 80 watts rms. Otherwise, it looks pretty the same. Sad. I hoped they would come up with something different, maybe with a low midrange driver....
Angelo what's the model # of the new AMT from Beyma? I too, was also hoping Beyma would develop a low mid to mid/bass driver! If your friend could figure out how to do it. I don't understand why Beyma with all it's financial power cannot do so!
I'm listening to: Analysis by Analysis
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Peter K. has the amt's from Bernd Lohmann, which work from 300hz up. He commented that they sound very transparent. He might share his experience here.
Beyma
Thanks my friend!
I'm listening to: Analysis by Analysis
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Mundorf now has some more competetive "pro" versions:
http://www.mundorf.com/PDF/MUNDORF_PROAMT_FLYER_2012.pdf
..and the ProAMT®197 PP-8“ looks as if it can extend marginally lower in freq..
Some more information:
http://www.mundorf.com/AMTnews/MUNDORF_PRO_AMT_BASICS_ PRODUCT_OVERVIEW_AND_MEASUREMENT_REPORT.pdf
http://www.mundorf.com/PDF/MUNDORF_PROAMT_FLYER_2012.pdf
..and the ProAMT®197 PP-8“ looks as if it can extend marginally lower in freq..
Some more information:
http://www.mundorf.com/AMTnews/MUNDORF_PRO_AMT_BASICS_ PRODUCT_OVERVIEW_AND_MEASUREMENT_REPORT.pdf
MONACOR INTERNATIONAL : SPA-25PA
SPA-25PA is probably a crap driver in general, but I have suspected it might still do great midrange duty
SPA-25PA is probably a crap driver in general, but I have suspected it might still do great midrange duty
Large mid AMT
Hi Angelo and Tom,
I have owned the Beyma TPL-150H for quite some time now and like it a lot, and just like you guys I have been looking for an adequate mid driver to 'keep up' with the speed and resolution of the Beyma TPL. I had also shared the hope that Beyma (or someone else) would produce a large AMT that would work at least an octave further down in frequency than the Beyma TPL. However, I am no longer certain that this is where the real advantage to AMTs lies.
Recently, I had the opportunity to try out two AMT drivers from Bernd Lohmann. One driver(a mid/tweeter, MTH E200M) works from 600-20,000 Hz and the other (a mid driver, MT E500M) works from 300-10,000 Hz (should probably be low passed around 3,000 Hz). Both drivers are made exclusively for open baffle systems.
The biggest surprise to me was that replacing a cone driver (10" PHL 3451) for an AMT did not make a huge difference (as I had thought) in the 600-1,500 Hz range, but clearly made a substantial difference in the 300-600 Hz range. Although the PHL 3451 is a good cone mid driver for sure, the MT E500M simply sounded clearer, more transparent and detailed than the PHL 3451 in the 300-600 Hz range.
The 'downside' regarding the MT E500M is that the sensitivity is 90 dB (I a come from horns...), and that the driver with a very high Qt only works in an open baffle (which I am not sure I really like). If you like OB systems and can live with a sensitivity of 90 dB/1 Watt, then the MT E500M is a killer driver in the 300-3,000 Hz range for sure.
PS: I have no affiliation with Bernd Lohmann.
Best regards
Peter
Hi Angelo and Tom,
I have owned the Beyma TPL-150H for quite some time now and like it a lot, and just like you guys I have been looking for an adequate mid driver to 'keep up' with the speed and resolution of the Beyma TPL. I had also shared the hope that Beyma (or someone else) would produce a large AMT that would work at least an octave further down in frequency than the Beyma TPL. However, I am no longer certain that this is where the real advantage to AMTs lies.
Recently, I had the opportunity to try out two AMT drivers from Bernd Lohmann. One driver(a mid/tweeter, MTH E200M) works from 600-20,000 Hz and the other (a mid driver, MT E500M) works from 300-10,000 Hz (should probably be low passed around 3,000 Hz). Both drivers are made exclusively for open baffle systems.
The biggest surprise to me was that replacing a cone driver (10" PHL 3451) for an AMT did not make a huge difference (as I had thought) in the 600-1,500 Hz range, but clearly made a substantial difference in the 300-600 Hz range. Although the PHL 3451 is a good cone mid driver for sure, the MT E500M simply sounded clearer, more transparent and detailed than the PHL 3451 in the 300-600 Hz range.
The 'downside' regarding the MT E500M is that the sensitivity is 90 dB (I a come from horns...), and that the driver with a very high Qt only works in an open baffle (which I am not sure I really like). If you like OB systems and can live with a sensitivity of 90 dB/1 Watt, then the MT E500M is a killer driver in the 300-3,000 Hz range for sure.
PS: I have no affiliation with Bernd Lohmann.
Best regards
Peter
Miles is mentioned on the first page in this thread with comments from Stig himself. I own a pair (and a "mini-Miles with one 15" as center) and I'm very pleased, but as Stig also mentioned it would benefit from a dedicated mirange. Something like what the Swede in post 152 in this thread have done, would be my next step, but I don't trust my own tech skills to do so.
