Not me, just a bunch of 'el cheapo' RadioShack 'FR' drivers I got for next to nothing when they 'folded their tent' circa 2k.
Best 'bang/buck' around since they do above average as is and with some basic 'FR' tweaks can fool a lot of folks as they're basically the pioneer's designs with cheapened up motors and still available today with different brand names/models as PA [public address] drivers, which market is defined as for the highest speech intelligibility.
Best 'bang/buck' around since they do above average as is and with some basic 'FR' tweaks can fool a lot of folks as they're basically the pioneer's designs with cheapened up motors and still available today with different brand names/models as PA [public address] drivers, which market is defined as for the highest speech intelligibility.
My interest for 2022 is
how some of Fostex best models compare to the performance of the 2 DavidLouis
VX6 and VX8.
I hope to run some tests on at least 1 pair of Fostex, if I can find a chepo pair on Ebay,,, not many used Fostex on Ebay up for sale..Seems folks like their Fostex.
Bass/highs might come into the equation,,but my main interest is how does the Fostex voice high vol classical orch in full bloom.
IOW any breakup at 70db SPL,
My guess is both will sound very close. AS per my tests with the TB2145 which was extremely close to the DLVX8.
I',m not interested in Mark Audio, his speakers are below my 92db sens acceptance. .
how some of Fostex best models compare to the performance of the 2 DavidLouis
VX6 and VX8.
I hope to run some tests on at least 1 pair of Fostex, if I can find a chepo pair on Ebay,,, not many used Fostex on Ebay up for sale..Seems folks like their Fostex.
Bass/highs might come into the equation,,but my main interest is how does the Fostex voice high vol classical orch in full bloom.
IOW any breakup at 70db SPL,
My guess is both will sound very close. AS per my tests with the TB2145 which was extremely close to the DLVX8.
I',m not interested in Mark Audio, his speakers are below my 92db sens acceptance. .
I'm wondering why no one has mentioned driver "break-in"? I've read some take 100's of hours of playing just to get them into the arena of what they can do musically.
One would think you just cant "fly through" a bunch of drivers based on immediate "first 10 seconds" impressions. In that case FAYK, you could be bypassing gems that would have opened up, given time and amount of music transduced into the air.
One would think you just cant "fly through" a bunch of drivers based on immediate "first 10 seconds" impressions. In that case FAYK, you could be bypassing gems that would have opened up, given time and amount of music transduced into the air.
Breakin is snakeoil that audiogonners love to get drunk on.
It took me less than 1 minute to know the
Seas FA22RCZ wasa POS.
just trash.
Perfect speaker for a schoolyard announcement horn.
Seas should place this tag on the box, Not Meant for Music., Commercial horn only.
Less !! than 1 minute.
Boxed it up, told madisound take 20& restock fee, my protocol on all my returns whatever the item.
Here you can read up on the Seas FA22RCZ in these 2 links, if you don't believe me..
Tongueincheek
😉
SEAS FA22RCZ vs. Fostex FE206En
Reposted with Audio Volume Increased -- Full Test on Seas FA22RCZ 8" Fullrange Driver - YouTube
Have not re4ad through the DIY topic, not going to.
But if its true the FA22 is in competition with a Fostex,,, thiis would mean the Fostex is not going to work out for me
It took me less than 1 minute to know the
Seas FA22RCZ wasa POS.
just trash.
Perfect speaker for a schoolyard announcement horn.
Seas should place this tag on the box, Not Meant for Music., Commercial horn only.
Less !! than 1 minute.
Boxed it up, told madisound take 20& restock fee, my protocol on all my returns whatever the item.
Here you can read up on the Seas FA22RCZ in these 2 links, if you don't believe me..
Tongueincheek
😉
SEAS FA22RCZ vs. Fostex FE206En
Reposted with Audio Volume Increased -- Full Test on Seas FA22RCZ 8" Fullrange Driver - YouTube
Have not re4ad through the DIY topic, not going to.
But if its true the FA22 is in competition with a Fostex,,, thiis would mean the Fostex is not going to work out for me
...and there we go with another blanket statement. 😉
Break-in of moving coil drive units is not 'snake oil'. However, there is a lot of myth surrounding it. That is not the same thing though.
A moving coil drive unit is a mechanical device with at least one dedicated suspension element, and in the majority of cases, two. These have mechanical properties of their own, determined by the materials, adhesives employed etc. Out of the box, these suspension elements are usually harder / stiffer than they are intended to be. Break-in, in a macro-sense, is simply about applying sufficient bend & stress to increase flexibility, cause micro-cracks in the adhesives (resulting in the same) etc., and bring them into the intended mechanical state. You can typically expect a reduction in Fs, Qts, an increase in Vas etc. These changes are very easily measured and certainly not mysterious. However, since wideband drivers can be quite delicate, it may take a little longer since it isn't an especially bright idea to push them to high excursions for extended periods (as in minutes), which is what is necessary to rapidly effect those changes.
So much for the suspension. In the case of drive units (like wideband drive units) that operate in controlled resonance / flex conditions, the same, to a lesser extent, can also apply to the cones, albeit sometimes for different reasons. Alloy cones can work-harden soft types with progressive decoupling may see small changes there also as the cone materials & adhesives flex. Far too much can be made of this, and you could expect any changes to be slight in most conditions. However, there is nothing inherently odd or controversial about this -it's just basic mechanical engineering. Where the problem can lie is in the excessive claims made about it. And when it gets applied to things like pieces of wire, components like inductors, resistors, caps & so on.
Break-in of moving coil drive units is not 'snake oil'. However, there is a lot of myth surrounding it. That is not the same thing though.
A moving coil drive unit is a mechanical device with at least one dedicated suspension element, and in the majority of cases, two. These have mechanical properties of their own, determined by the materials, adhesives employed etc. Out of the box, these suspension elements are usually harder / stiffer than they are intended to be. Break-in, in a macro-sense, is simply about applying sufficient bend & stress to increase flexibility, cause micro-cracks in the adhesives (resulting in the same) etc., and bring them into the intended mechanical state. You can typically expect a reduction in Fs, Qts, an increase in Vas etc. These changes are very easily measured and certainly not mysterious. However, since wideband drivers can be quite delicate, it may take a little longer since it isn't an especially bright idea to push them to high excursions for extended periods (as in minutes), which is what is necessary to rapidly effect those changes.
So much for the suspension. In the case of drive units (like wideband drive units) that operate in controlled resonance / flex conditions, the same, to a lesser extent, can also apply to the cones, albeit sometimes for different reasons. Alloy cones can work-harden soft types with progressive decoupling may see small changes there also as the cone materials & adhesives flex. Far too much can be made of this, and you could expect any changes to be slight in most conditions. However, there is nothing inherently odd or controversial about this -it's just basic mechanical engineering. Where the problem can lie is in the excessive claims made about it. And when it gets applied to things like pieces of wire, components like inductors, resistors, caps & so on.
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You are very out-to-lunch there. Mechanical devices break-in, and given the hard work a FR does, it often takes longer. I do not evaluate a driver until it has at least 100 hrs on it. Some need more (Alpair 10.3 for instance).
Consider that every driver you have evaluated without break-in has not been given a proper audition.
In particular i will note that the designer of the early FExx6 drivers (that currrent drivers have evolved from) has sid he has designed spiders that take 1500 hours to break-in. If you try to evaluate any Fostex (or MA for that matter) you will not have any idea of what they really sound like.
If this is how you judge drivers we can very safely toss out each and every one of your evaluations as trash
The SEAS FA22, along with Visaton B200 are my favorite 8” drivers (i prefer smaller ones) , but both need work.
And your arbitrary 92 dB sensitivity misses the mark and gets you not much while giving up some.
dave
Indeed, though in the world at large it means repair/replacement since it could be designed for the proper specs from the get-go.
That said, they're typically dedicated horn drivers, so in a proper horn they would either quickly break in or be so controlled by it that no appreciable break in would occur.
If we take the stance that they're dedicated sealed/BR drivers designed for high output impedance tube amps, then normally the available power won't drive them hard enough to do more than take away any 'newness' like most modern drivers.
The SEAS FA22, along with Visaton B200 are my favorite 8” drivers (i prefer smaller ones) , but both need work.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WEll i have no time nor knowhow to tweak a speaker..
i expect the thing to sing like a angel right out the box.
My amp tech guy just wrote,,**well...there is some parts that,,,,so yeah..** IOW one foot in, one foot out the breakin thing,, He's not going to get involved.
Richard Gray stays far from arguments nad looking for trouble.
He's semi retired and has no interest in squabbles.
..
WEll if I miss out on something good below 92db sens,, well there's plenty other good FR @ 92+ db sens.
many I hope one day to test.
Fostex is really the only other FR that I have any interest.
And if I test a Fostex,,I don't want to hear,,**oh well that old 207 model with 3 magnet structure had issues its a dud..** which I know it is .
I'm talkng the Sigmas or one of the EN's , or NV's
That might be some time, cause I don;t want to order a pair from Madisound and find out I don't thinkm it beats the Davidlouis and then I have to ship return.
I've already bother madisound once with the Seas Fa22RCZ aka *The Dud*.
All I want is any Fostex just to get a basic idea of the house sound charcater. nada mas.
Davidlouis 2020 version, ONE model,
vs
Fostex at least 3 top dawgs.
I like the idea a manufacturer puts all his stuff in one speaker..
What happened
Fostex just can't get it right??
I mean if they come up with a super speaker,, just delete the previous or mark it down half/price and stop productiion.
((No not interested in the FF series/grey cone paper. ))
The Break in has already been discussed many times on DIY, and there's no need to go wake up a sleeping dog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WEll i have no time nor knowhow to tweak a speaker..
i expect the thing to sing like a angel right out the box.
My amp tech guy just wrote,,**well...there is some parts that,,,,so yeah..** IOW one foot in, one foot out the breakin thing,, He's not going to get involved.
Richard Gray stays far from arguments nad looking for trouble.
He's semi retired and has no interest in squabbles.
..
WEll if I miss out on something good below 92db sens,, well there's plenty other good FR @ 92+ db sens.
many I hope one day to test.
Fostex is really the only other FR that I have any interest.
And if I test a Fostex,,I don't want to hear,,**oh well that old 207 model with 3 magnet structure had issues its a dud..** which I know it is .
I'm talkng the Sigmas or one of the EN's , or NV's
That might be some time, cause I don;t want to order a pair from Madisound and find out I don't thinkm it beats the Davidlouis and then I have to ship return.
I've already bother madisound once with the Seas Fa22RCZ aka *The Dud*.
All I want is any Fostex just to get a basic idea of the house sound charcater. nada mas.
Davidlouis 2020 version, ONE model,
vs
Fostex at least 3 top dawgs.
I like the idea a manufacturer puts all his stuff in one speaker..
What happened
Fostex just can't get it right??
I mean if they come up with a super speaker,, just delete the previous or mark it down half/price and stop productiion.
((No not interested in the FF series/grey cone paper. ))
The Break in has already been discussed many times on DIY, and there's no need to go wake up a sleeping dog.
You are then missing out on the best of them… because NONE of the good ones don’t need break-in.
dave
No. There isn't. 😉 But it was you who did it: nobody else had raised the subject here. However, view it as an opportunity. You have been given three posts of valuable factual information, so read away and learn.
Burn in/break in subject aside,, I still have lingering Q's about the Fostex and the manufacturers many offerings.
After cking all the models, my interest is in
1) 168Sigma
2) FE168NS
Both same price.
My hunch is the one I'm looking for is the NS. @ 90db sens.
btw should mention the KT88's have 4K++ hours, but used at low SPL , light chamber to full orchestra. (No harsh R&R, which wears tubes out fast) , = making the performance of the DLVX8 not at full potential.
Tomorrow going to pick up a loan amplifier from R Gray;'s shop.
Fostex FE168NS 7.5" Full Range
After cking all the models, my interest is in
1) 168Sigma
2) FE168NS
Both same price.
My hunch is the one I'm looking for is the NS. @ 90db sens.
btw should mention the KT88's have 4K++ hours, but used at low SPL , light chamber to full orchestra. (No harsh R&R, which wears tubes out fast) , = making the performance of the DLVX8 not at full potential.
Tomorrow going to pick up a loan amplifier from R Gray;'s shop.
Fostex FE168NS 7.5" Full Range
So what are the 'lingering questions'?
I see that you've changed your mind again, and after a paean of praise directed toward whizzerless units, your latest decision is that you want a driver with a whizzer cone once more. It's odd that you want a driver with a 90dB sensitivity (exact rating unspecified), yet your 'hunch' leads you toward the 168NS, which averages about 96dB 1m/w from about 2KHz upward according to their own FR graph.
I see that you've changed your mind again, and after a paean of praise directed toward whizzerless units, your latest decision is that you want a driver with a whizzer cone once more. It's odd that you want a driver with a 90dB sensitivity (exact rating unspecified), yet your 'hunch' leads you toward the 168NS, which averages about 96dB 1m/w from about 2KHz upward according to their own FR graph.
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well am I sure glad you mentioned the sens at 10Khz+ region...
wow just took a closer look, (which I did not do previous, as most DL chrats hsow a roll off after 15khz) but here, this lil driver is hitting the 20khz at 95db
There is no doubt about it
1st up to order is this 168NS
later in 2022 the DLVX6.
WOW unreal, what a spectacular finish to this speaker, \
UNREAL.
Thanks Scott for leading me take a closer look at the chart.
This is w/o doubt the best looking sens/hz chart I've ever seen in a W6 FR.
STUNNING.
I told ya my hunch led me to this W6 out of Fostex's 3-4 top models.
And note **Our newest design**
Vs Vox's *newest* the AC1A which I installed ina 12 inch x 12 inch x 12 inch sanded ply 1/3 inch box.
No bass, no mids, zero highs,, Straight shooting, Bose sounds superior.
All has to do with that cheap toliet paper thin cone and cheap Nd magnet **pills*
Not worth a Mexican peso.
wow just took a closer look, (which I did not do previous, as most DL chrats hsow a roll off after 15khz) but here, this lil driver is hitting the 20khz at 95db
There is no doubt about it
1st up to order is this 168NS
later in 2022 the DLVX6.
WOW unreal, what a spectacular finish to this speaker, \
UNREAL.
Thanks Scott for leading me take a closer look at the chart.
This is w/o doubt the best looking sens/hz chart I've ever seen in a W6 FR.
STUNNING.
I told ya my hunch led me to this W6 out of Fostex's 3-4 top models.
And note **Our newest design**
Vs Vox's *newest* the AC1A which I installed ina 12 inch x 12 inch x 12 inch sanded ply 1/3 inch box.
No bass, no mids, zero highs,, Straight shooting, Bose sounds superior.
All has to do with that cheap toliet paper thin cone and cheap Nd magnet **pills*
Not worth a Mexican peso.
The worlds worst FR W8. Ever
Voxativ AC–1a PRODUCTS
Vox's wood cone is the real deal but they are requesting 5G's
Thanks, but no thanks
And can anyone here make the claim the Vox wood cone is superior to the DLVX8 or this FE168NS?
Voxativ AC–1a PRODUCTS
Vox's wood cone is the real deal but they are requesting 5G's
Thanks, but no thanks
And can anyone here make the claim the Vox wood cone is superior to the DLVX8 or this FE168NS?
Going back to DLVX6 as 1st choice.
Sorry for the flip flop.
1) wood cone
2) has Nd + Ferrite , I love Nd magnets.
3) hitting 20khz above 90db sens.
I have no doubt the 168NS is a excellent speaker, but more points go towards the DLVX6.
Sorry for the flip flop.
1) wood cone
2) has Nd + Ferrite , I love Nd magnets.
3) hitting 20khz above 90db sens.
I have no doubt the 168NS is a excellent speaker, but more points go towards the DLVX6.
I am not sure YouTube videos help.
Fostex ??????????16cm???????????FE168SS-HP, FE168E?, FE168NS, FE166NV? - YouTube
Fostex ??????????16cm???????????FE168SS-HP, FE168E?, FE168NS, FE166NV? - YouTube
have both computer speakers next to ears, ,, am I hearing some stress/ringing/disonances aka * harshness* in the upper notes of the horn??
Or is it
Poot mic/record cam
2) poor room acoustics
3) disortion in recording
Soory but its there,
+ I've heard some models (FE207? or 107? ) had *shouting* issues \
That was the driver with the crappy 3 magnet motor, now long defunct.
Still we need to know do other FE;'s have some issues with *shouting*
And don't say, **If it has the correct cabinet, correct implimentation,, there's no shouting..**
I ain't buying that.
The DLVX8 above 200hz, will sound beautiful in a card board box, ported of course. and insulation.
FOSTEX FE168NS TLS - YouTube
Or is it
Poot mic/record cam
2) poor room acoustics
3) disortion in recording
Soory but its there,
+ I've heard some models (FE207? or 107? ) had *shouting* issues \
That was the driver with the crappy 3 magnet motor, now long defunct.
Still we need to know do other FE;'s have some issues with *shouting*
And don't say, **If it has the correct cabinet, correct implimentation,, there's no shouting..**
I ain't buying that.
The DLVX8 above 200hz, will sound beautiful in a card board box, ported of course. and insulation.
FOSTEX FE168NS TLS - YouTube
well actually we posted at the same moment.
Your find reveals a hunch , that all Fostex do have something like a *house sound** which only makes sense, they are made in the same factory.
And can we trust the recording to have some high fidelity inherent? IOW could the cd choice be wrong, = the recording is a bit sour, not the driver itself.
I'd rather they had a Sophie Milman or Diana Krall, both cds I know very well how they should voice..
I'd say its a good test, and have some issues at what i am hearing..
I'm stickin with the Davidlouis. I have zero issues with the DLVX8, can't find ner a single fault.
I plant my mic up close to the DLVX8, gives a better idea of how the speaker voices.
Your find reveals a hunch , that all Fostex do have something like a *house sound** which only makes sense, they are made in the same factory.
And can we trust the recording to have some high fidelity inherent? IOW could the cd choice be wrong, = the recording is a bit sour, not the driver itself.
I'd rather they had a Sophie Milman or Diana Krall, both cds I know very well how they should voice..
I'd say its a good test, and have some issues at what i am hearing..
I'm stickin with the Davidlouis. I have zero issues with the DLVX8, can't find ner a single fault.
I plant my mic up close to the DLVX8, gives a better idea of how the speaker voices.
Once again, there are some upper tones that sound a bit too forward *Shout*.
Almost horn like, in your face certain fq peaks.
Spikes which are not in the DLVX8
btw this Miles Davis track is so easy to make any speaker sound just wonderful, even a Bose can sound great on a Kind Of Blue track.
FOSTEX FE168NS その４ - YouTube
Almost horn like, in your face certain fq peaks.
Spikes which are not in the DLVX8
btw this Miles Davis track is so easy to make any speaker sound just wonderful, even a Bose can sound great on a Kind Of Blue track.
FOSTEX FE168NS その４ - YouTube